You volunteering to write the AI? Are you an expert it artificial intelligence? How about the applet? It will have a tremendous server load unless it takes advantage of the networked processing power (requiring everyone's approval as installing software on a person's computer without their knowledge is a crime in most every civilized country). Do you know how to write a distributed netwrok application?

Didn't think so...

"uses logic and math based forumula to make at least some semblence of moves."

Well, shit, why didn't I think of that?

I can't believe this game doesn't have super-high definition virtual reality graphics. This is 2013 people!!!!

I've played a couple of different attempts at Diplomacy AI, including one that would send you "press." Obviously not here, but they are commercially available, or were at one time (the success rating of them is so high that I found them at Big Lots). They are laughably bad compared to even the most intellectually challenged real player. I should know, since I am the most intellectually challenged real player.

@Draug.. Uhh chess.com requires no installation. What part of "Java" did you miss. Is this another thread where you just try to flame someone for their ideas. I'm simply saying theres Java apps for cheesy ass games like farmville, and omgpop games. you can literally play mario cart on omgpop java's appalet. I refuse to beleive Webdiplomacy is just utterly incapable of an updated system. As far as writing the code for the AI, I actually suggest modeling its choices off of Splitdiplomat or someone who makes exception decisions in situations.

Since theres a rating system in chess why not have an AI thats ghost rating is near the top, and then a random AI thats about as talented at this game as Draug

@SacredDigits - The Albert AI seems pretty good, although it takes a long time to make its moves... Either that or I'm a terrible gunboat player...

Um brainbomb, a java applet *is* a download. Your browser will prompt you and ask you if you want to download it. I do know a thing or two (being certified in J2SE and Microsoft .Net both) But more to the point, the live games input on this is a significantly higher load to the server than a chess game. First, each game has seven players. Second, those players are communicating to coordinate their moves. third the moves all run *at the same time*. Last I checked, chess was a) two players, b) no communication required (because it is two players) and c) one player moves at a time.

so, the effort required for a java applet to talk to the server and the amoutn of data transferred for immediate feedback is pretty minimal compared to diplomacy.

As far as the AI, seriosuly? Again, chess has *no* communication. A chess AI is significantly less complex to write than a Diplomacy one (not that a good chess AI is easy, just less difficult than a Diplomacy AI).

so, no, I wasn't talking out of my ass or just trying to insult you or start a fight, but in response to your talent comment about the AIs and GR...

The AI that is highly ranked in GR would be more akin to my GR where as the random crappy one would be more akin to yours. My non-live classic GR is 35th on the entire site. That's right, top 50 douche nozzle. Yours is 260th. Seems there are some 224 players between you and me and only 34 ranked better than me. My over-all GR is 110th and yours is 681st. So 570 between us and only 109 better than me. Want to make that stupid comment again about who has the Diplomacy talent? Or are you content to sit and look like the fucktard you are for insulting someone who is clearly better at this game than yourself and is one of the top classic players on the site?

Oh and farmville, etc, are not java applets asswipe. They are Flash driven. That's right, Adobe Flash.

See, not only am I better at this game than you, I'm a seniot level developer, not some wanna be painter who instructs because he couldn't say a painting of his own for his fucking life. those that can do. Those that can't teach.

That's some seriously good flamin' right there. Brainbomb, you looks like you need a fire extinguisher...

Yea and i'm sorry, I do have more wins than you, and would love to be in a live game with you but you dont have any points. And once again, your still wrong. For a guy claiming he works in JS2E have you ever played live poker? or done an ESPN fantasy draft? all of those things operate live without having to hit a refresh button. Once again, my point is that "no" "you do not have to download anything". The only time you would have to download something is if your some blithering idiot who doesnt even have an updated web browser and he stares at the screen wondering why it keeps asking him to update his java... So if thats what you meant by downloading, then uhhh sure, way to be a pedantic psycho.

And call it whatever you want, the point is its a window that runs a game live, without needing to hit refresh or press the board button. How hard could it possibly be to update the game engine and get with the times. Your the guy claiming to be an amazing senior developer maybe you should bitch and moan less and help work on it for us.

Yea and i'm sorry, I do have more wins than you, and would love to be in a live game with you but you dont have any points. And once again, your still wrong. For a guy claiming he works in JS2E have you ever played live poker? or done an ESPN fantasy draft? all of those things operate live without having to hit a refresh button. Once again, my point is that "no" "you do not have to download anything". The only time you would have to download something is if your some blithering idiot who doesnt even have an updated web browser and he stares at the screen wondering why it keeps asking him to update his java... So if thats what you meant by downloading, then uhhh sure, way to be a pedantic psycho.

LOL. why did it post twice

You ahev the same win percentage, a smaller draw percentage, a higher defeat and survive percentage (which is a bad thing). As far as the downloading goes, the moment you go to the NBA draft site, it downloads code. The browser is running a plugin. Poker ia generally played off a client that doesn't even run under a browser (and whcih you download at some point). Finally, all of those examples are well backed sites with better bandwidth amd dedicated server farms, not a single server run by a fan of the game. You are comparing apples to oranges.

And I would help code except I don't do PHP/Perl. This site is written in PHP.

Now back.to the business at hand... Have you ever sold a painting? Have hou ever been commissioned to paint anything other than what the typical housepainter paints?

Didn't think so. Go back to your paint by numbers.

Since no one else has mentioned it, brainbomb, have you heard of Droidippy?

Actually, i don't think you need java/flash, (and re-developing the whole game around them would be a lot of work) i *think* you can use html5 sockets, which if i'm not mistaken support push. (the problem is that older browser the requires the user to pull data from the server, even if things like gmail have been using work-arounds for a while)

That said the diplomacy AI is tough, gunboat AI would be easier; and i've seen design project still i think i prefer playing with reliable players.

As a matter of fact Mr. Draug I have an exhibition that just opened today at University of Nebraska Omaha, Criss Library Gallery. Yes I have sold paintings, I have a website as well and I sell through fineartamerica.com. I also have a solo exhibition at the Governors Residence in Lincoln Nebraska from Sept 4-Oct 4. It would be great if you could make it, you sound so knowledgeable about the in's and out's of the Art business...

Right, a Gunboat AI is more what I was thinking. What good would a diplomacy AI be, you have to be able to respond to Press. No way could you ever hope to create a AI for that.

"As far as the downloading goes, the moment you go to the NBA draft site, it downloads code. The browser is running a plugin. Poker ia generally played off a client that doesn't even run under a browser (and whcih you download at some point). Finally, all of those examples are well backed sites with better bandwidth amd dedicated server farms, not a single server run by a fan of the game. You are comparing apples to oranges."

If this were true didnt you say anytime someone uses one of these it asks you to download something, like a window actually pops up asking you to save a file? this was never the case with omgpop, live poker, or espn live drafts. This would mean *GASP* ESPN is breaking the law, oh my goodness...

@brainbomb, have you looked into Droidippy? I do not know if it has a gunboat AI, but it may meet the criteria of the first half of your OP.

Interesting. I'll check it out

;) http://arxiv.org/list/cs.GT/recent

I think we could do more to provide info on when games have moved forward without needing refreshes (as with when you submit orders and it tells you the turn has progressed).
It couldn't be live exactly, because the web is ultimately request based and can't push info to clients (and I just don't like the idea of plugins re: webDip, I would be more inclined to go with the up and coming JavaScript tech that I think does allow push notifications), but sure it could be smoother given a moderate increase in server load for client polling. As always it's a question of time, priorities, and interest.


"AI" means very different things to different people, so I'll just point out that the only part of the DATC spec that deals with what to do when moves aren't entered (which unit to destroy when no order is entered; not exactly the most complex decision made on a Diplomacy board) is pretty involved and many disputes have come up about it.

In webDip people have also found ways to exploit the default order that players used to appear in anonymous games to guess at who they were, and people have written software to look for correlations in the times different players in a game submit moves.
My point is that if there is any way of getting a webDip specific advantage people will find it and use it, so having a whole webDip specific AI would open a whole can of worms where now the players that know the webDip AI tech inside out are at an advantage, and I don't think that would be fair.
I'm no FtF purist but I think this is one place where it's best to stick to the precedents and standards.

see thats a very polite, thoughtful response. thank you for some rational discourse. I will agree and rescind my initial claim that an AI would be useful.

I can't believe a Java applet is even being considered in this day and age.

Use JavaScript + the DOM, people.

"you sound so knowledgeable about the in's and out's of the Art business... "

About as knowledgable as you are about the in's and out's of web servers and what kind of bandwidth and processor/memory/disk requirements (hereafter called IT horsepower) it takes to set up such a system.

You have your expertise, I have mine.

"If this were true didnt you say anytime someone uses one of these it asks you to download something"

No, I said the *first* time. Shows how much you pay attention.

And it doesn't have to be a popup. It's part of the user agreement for the site. Of course, like the typical (ab)user, you probably never bother to actually read the TOS/UA of any commercial site on which you signup.