Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD

[Lord of Words]

I always will crumb scans or at least make it really obvious who I would scan.

But I also cave under pressure usually if I am concerned I will not be around for a phase, but when I cave I would *immediately* spell out my explicit actions.

I think HB is scum but ya’ll will let him slip until it’s too damn late to flip him. I’ve yelled this multiple times but no one give a shit to pay attention, so yolo let’s kill Vecna

I have yet to hear a convincing case for business regarding Ham and much of the evidence presented by Sweet and Damo could've been laid with the scenario of Ham falling under suspicion in mind.

I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts or what I'm missing from anyone else.

[Lord of Words]

At this point, I'm a vote on Ham or Sweet.

[Spartaculous]

Helpful meta analysis would be seeing Bozo's EoD voting patterns and what affect alignment and pressure has on him. And how frequently in the past Ham has crumbed fake or real.

I'll try to sprinkle that in. Though maybe someone else can ease my burden by conducting the meta analysis (hint hint, Sparta).

Let me see if I understand the assignment.

At 29 minutes to go, the wagons stand at:
4 LoW
4 Vecna
3 sweetandcool
2 Ham
1 rdrivera
1 bozo (voted by rdrivera)

bozo then switches to Ham, which is followed by the two other Ham voters going to bozo, leaving us with:
4 LoW
4 Vecna
3 sweetandcool
3 bozo
1 rdrivera, 1 Ham

At this point, bozo votes for Bona, Bunny, and worcej in very quick succession, none of which are getting any other votes. And then bozo just stays put on worcej (other than the missed-by-three-seconds LoW vote).

So, I'm looking for instances where bozo did this kind of quick vote switching at EoD?

I would ignore the quick switching and focus on how often he stays off the major wagons and votes one of them at the very last second.

So, I already started to look for the quick switching before I saw your response. Going back through M75, I found two instances where, on D1, he runs through a list of 5 players he would be willing to vote for, but it's not at EoD and he's not under pressure. (Both times, he was town.) He honestly was rarely under voting pressure at EoD in the early days in the games I was looking at. I'll have to go back and look at him trying to jump on late wagons.

[sweetandcool]

Let me see if I understand the assignment.

At 29 minutes to go, the wagons stand at:
4 LoW
4 Vecna
3 sweetandcool
2 Ham
1 rdrivera
1 bozo (voted by rdrivera)

bozo then switches to Ham, which is followed by the two other Ham voters going to bozo, leaving us with:
4 LoW
4 Vecna
3 sweetandcool
3 bozo
1 rdrivera, 1 Ham

At this point, bozo votes for Bona, Bunny, and worcej in very quick succession, none of which are getting any other votes. And then bozo just stays put on worcej (other than the missed-by-three-seconds LoW vote).

So, I'm looking for instances where bozo did this kind of quick vote switching at EoD?

I would ignore the quick switching and focus on how often he stays off the major wagons and votes one of them at the very last second.

So, I already started to look for the quick switching before I saw your response. Going back through M75, I found two instances where, on D1, he runs through a list of 5 players he would be willing to vote for, but it's not at EoD and he's not under pressure. (Both times, he was town.) He honestly was rarely under voting pressure at EoD in the early days in the games I was looking at. I'll have to go back and look at him trying to jump on late wagons.

Hmmm, yeah it might be a difficult assignment. Now that I think about it, I feel like he isn't often put under much pressure.

[sweetandcool]

Whatever. Booze is involved for me right now as I watch the Roast of Tom Brady, but you’re either scum or just a noob PR. Don’t fucking crumb - we don’t need that shit.

##vote Vecna

Let’s actually flip a worthless person.

Welcome to the thread, drunk worcej.

May I ask, are you saying you are against crumbing in general? Or just Ham doing it? Or just in combination with an awful PR claim?

I think crumbing a role is stupid and is more scum indicative.

I think crumbing scans is actually the smart play.

Well I heartily agree with that. Crumbing a role proves absolutely nothing and just makes me think of the latest game it happened where scum Kak did it.

And yet, I somehow find myself believing in Ham this time.

Perhaps he will learn after this game. Next time, crumb the scans and results.

[Spartaculous]

During the night I actually used the GT to organize my thoughts, which I normally kind of do in thread. This is what I came up with:

Town:

Pirate
Bona
ghug (RIP)
Jamiet* (only because of the RB)

One last thing before I call it a night. I don't think the RB claim gives Jamie Town credibility (I used to, but don't anymore). Now that ghug is dead (so his RB claim looks unimpeachable), I went back and checked Day 1. Jamie and brainbomb seemed on decently good terms with each other near the end. Thus, I think it is far likelier that brainbomb RBed ghug, meaning that Jamie was almost certainly the Mafia RB. In that case, a fake RB claim could have just as easily been set up by not using the RB. (I know this has been discussed by others before, but it's a bit clearer now after ghug's flip.)

[sweetandcool]

During the night I actually used the GT to organize my thoughts, which I normally kind of do in thread. This is what I came up with:

Town:

Pirate
Bona
ghug (RIP)
Jamiet* (only because of the RB)

One last thing before I call it a night. I don't think the RB claim gives Jamie Town credibility (I used to, but don't anymore). Now that ghug is dead (so his RB claim looks unimpeachable), I went back and checked Day 1. Jamie and brainbomb seemed on decently good terms with each other near the end. Thus, I think it is far likelier that brainbomb RBed ghug, meaning that Jamie was almost certainly the Mafia RB. In that case, a fake RB claim could have just as easily been set up by not using the RB. (I know this has been discussed by others before, but it's a bit clearer now after ghug's flip.)

Right, that's why I made a special note of it.

It's entirely possible Jamiet inserted themselves into the RB claims, but it's not the type of play I would associate with him.

So I'm choosing to Town him until it's time to reassess.

[bozotheclown]

I would ignore the quick switching and focus on how often he stays off the major wagons and votes one of them at the very last second.

So, I already started to look for the quick switching before I saw your response. Going back through M75, I found two instances where, on D1, he runs through a list of 5 players he would be willing to vote for, but it's not at EoD and he's not under pressure. (Both times, he was town.) He honestly was rarely under voting pressure at EoD in the early days in the games I was looking at. I'll have to go back and look at him trying to jump on late wagons.

Hmmm, yeah it might be a difficult assignment. Now that I think about it, I feel like he isn't often put under much pressure.

I was about to get DKed in my last game (M86) until the cop cleared me. I have also been mis-killed a number of times on D1.

The kind of information you are asking Spartaculous for would not be very meaningful, and it make me wonder what your motive is for asking.

[bozotheclown]

During the night I actually used the GT to organize my thoughts, which I normally kind of do in thread. This is what I came up with:

Town:

Pirate
Bona
ghug (RIP)
Jamiet* (only because of the RB)

One last thing before I call it a night. I don't think the RB claim gives Jamie Town credibility (I used to, but don't anymore). Now that ghug is dead (so his RB claim looks unimpeachable), I went back and checked Day 1. Jamie and brainbomb seemed on decently good terms with each other near the end. Thus, I think it is far likelier that brainbomb RBed ghug, meaning that Jamie was almost certainly the Mafia RB. In that case, a fake RB claim could have just as easily been set up by not using the RB. (I know this has been discussed by others before, but it's a bit clearer now after ghug's flip.)

I would not make that assumption, I thought the mafia NKing ghug N2 made it more likely they RBed him N1.

[sweetandcool]

So, I already started to look for the quick switching before I saw your response. Going back through M75, I found two instances where, on D1, he runs through a list of 5 players he would be willing to vote for, but it's not at EoD and he's not under pressure. (Both times, he was town.) He honestly was rarely under voting pressure at EoD in the early days in the games I was looking at. I'll have to go back and look at him trying to jump on late wagons.

Hmmm, yeah it might be a difficult assignment. Now that I think about it, I feel like he isn't often put under much pressure.

I was about to get DKed in my last game (M86) until the cop cleared me. I have also been mis-killed a number of times on D1.

The kind of information you are asking Spartaculous for would not be very meaningful, and it make me wonder what your motive is for asking.

You caught me, I just wanted to waste his time so he doesn't turn his analytical skills in my direction.

You know, you could also helpfully off the information yourself.

How often do you stay off the major wagons, only to jump on at the very last second? And is that a tactic you like to employ when under pressure?

[bozotheclown]

During the night I actually used the GT to organize my thoughts, which I normally kind of do in thread. This is what I came up with:

Scum:

Vecna
LoW
Bozo
rdr

Scum Lean:

Ham

Null:

Bunny
worcej
Balki

Town lean:

Damo

Town:

Pirate
Bona
ghug (RIP)
Jamiet* (only because of the RB)
----------------------------------------------------------

I am very confident that Vecna is scum. Vecna knows when I am town and yet despite being town he thinks I am Mafia. Not a compelling case and yet an accurate one.

LoW and Bozo make sense as the last two, but it's a good explanation for Bozo's EoD.

rdr is a bit of a wild card and doesn't feel like he fits with the team.

Null players I have essentially not thought of the entire game.

Since Spartaculous pointed out your Jamie read, why did you think the RB claim made him more likely town now that we know ghug was town and could have been RBed by the mafia?

[bozotheclown]

Hmmm, yeah it might be a difficult assignment. Now that I think about it, I feel like he isn't often put under much pressure.

I was about to get DKed in my last game (M86) until the cop cleared me. I have also been mis-killed a number of times on D1.

The kind of information you are asking Spartaculous for would not be very meaningful, and it make me wonder what your motive is for asking.

You caught me, I just wanted to waste his time so he doesn't turn his analytical skills in my direction.

You know, you could also helpfully off the information yourself.

How often do you stay off the major wagons, only to jump on at the very last second? And is that a tactic you like to employ when under pressure?

I probably have done something similar before when at risk of being DKed as town and mafia, but I only tried to vote at the end of D2 to try to break the tie. I was OK with the rdrivera and Hamilton wagons when they were still contending.

[bozotheclown]

terrible analysis

1. why would any town not place cards onto the table? this makes no sense.

2. you ignore this in your conclusion, which you make before you even typed this out. why?

nice hedge at the end

hmm...you may be right.

I think he is.

##Vote Sweetandcool

Did you have any other reason for suspecting sweetandcool besides what Bonatogether said?

[sweetandcool]

During the night I actually used the GT to organize my thoughts, which I normally kind of do in thread. This is what I came up with:

Scum:

Vecna
LoW
Bozo
rdr

Scum Lean:

Ham

Null:

Bunny
worcej
Balki

Town lean:

Damo

Town:

Pirate
Bona
ghug (RIP)
Jamiet* (only because of the RB)
----------------------------------------------------------

I am very confident that Vecna is scum. Vecna knows when I am town and yet despite being town he thinks I am Mafia. Not a compelling case and yet an accurate one.

LoW and Bozo make sense as the last two, but it's a good explanation for Bozo's EoD.

rdr is a bit of a wild card and doesn't feel like he fits with the team.

Null players I have essentially not thought of the entire game.

Since Spartaculous pointed out your Jamie read, why did you think the RB claim made him more likely town now that we know ghug was town and could have been RBed by the mafia?

I have not updated my reads to take into account the NK, since that list was generated pre-NK.

If I were to ignore the RB I would move Jamiet to Null.

[bozotheclown]

Will, talk to me. How do you feel about Jamiet and Vecna?

What's your strat D1?

How do you read me and why?

JamieT(own) Vecna null leaning scum but im less confident in that then i am in Jamie’s towniness

Um i dont have a strat lol. Just vote mafia and try an figure out whos the mafia

You are NAI for it. Im still deciding on it rn. but the fact that you’re back is interesting

Wow, I think I agree with your assessment, though Vecna is null for me.

What's tickling you about Vecna?

Who do you want to talk about?

In order of willingness to vote for:

ghug
Jamiet
Will

Not willing to vote for:

bona
Balki
brainbomb

When you said you agreed with Just's assessment, it sounds like you meant his town read of Jamie, so why did Jamie become one of your top scum reads?

[bozotheclown]

During the night I actually used the GT to organize my thoughts, which I normally kind of do in thread. This is what I came up with:

Scum:

Vecna
LoW
Bozo
rdr

Scum Lean:

Ham

Null:

Bunny
worcej
Balki

Town lean:

Damo

Town:

Pirate
Bona
ghug (RIP)
Jamiet* (only because of the RB)
----------------------------------------------------------

I am very confident that Vecna is scum. Vecna knows when I am town and yet despite being town he thinks I am Mafia. Not a compelling case and yet an accurate one.

LoW and Bozo make sense as the last two, but it's a good explanation for Bozo's EoD.

rdr is a bit of a wild card and doesn't feel like he fits with the team.

Null players I have essentially not thought of the entire game.

Since Spartaculous pointed out your Jamie read, why did you think the RB claim made him more likely town now that we know ghug was town and could have been RBed by the mafia?

I have not updated my reads to take into account the NK, since that list was generated pre-NK.

If I were to ignore the RB I would move Jamiet to Null.

Why don't you think it is possible Vecna could just be wrong about you?

[sweetandcool]

JamieT(own) Vecna null leaning scum but im less confident in that then i am in Jamie’s towniness

Um i dont have a strat lol. Just vote mafia and try an figure out whos the mafia

You are NAI for it. Im still deciding on it rn. but the fact that you’re back is interesting

Wow, I think I agree with your assessment, though Vecna is null for me.

What's tickling you about Vecna?

Who do you want to talk about?

In order of willingness to vote for:

ghug
Jamiet
Will

Not willing to vote for:

bona
Balki
brainbomb

When you said you agreed with Just's assessment, it sounds like you meant his town read of Jamie, so why did Jamie become one of your top scum reads?

Wow, I can't even figure out why I particularly asked Will that. I'm guessing it was because Vecna and Jamiet were online?

I know for a decent portion of D1 I was suffering paranoia about ghug and Jamiet being teammates. Probably had something to do with them both voting me in an insufferable manner (sidenote, imagine my disappointment when they both claimed RB).

But yeah, drawing a total blank here. I don't recall ever towning Jamiet D1, but you are correct that that post was indicating it.

Best guess is I was buttering Will up an just trying to get some thoughts out of him.

[sweetandcool]

Since Spartaculous pointed out your Jamie read, why did you think the RB claim made him more likely town now that we know ghug was town and could have been RBed by the mafia?

I have not updated my reads to take into account the NK, since that list was generated pre-NK.

If I were to ignore the RB I would move Jamiet to Null.

Why don't you think it is possible Vecna could just be wrong about you?

Why does Vecna think they couldn't be wrong about me?

You'll have to trust me here. Scum can't resist going for a sweet sweet easy MK, and I'm generally a prime target. I know when scum is pushing me, and Vecna is scum pushing me.

[bozotheclown]

Hello.

What is your reason for voting me?

i think you're scum

What are your reasons for thinking that?

Try to give a better answer than Sweetandcool would give.

What did the reference to sweetandcool mean in this D1 post?

[bozotheclown]

I have not updated my reads to take into account the NK, since that list was generated pre-NK.

If I were to ignore the RB I would move Jamiet to Null.

Why don't you think it is possible Vecna could just be wrong about you?

Why does Vecna think they couldn't be wrong about me?

You'll have to trust me here. Scum can't resist going for a sweet sweet easy MK, and I'm generally a prime target. I know when scum is pushing me, and Vecna is scum pushing me.

He hasn't done much to push you since he voted for you D2.