M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[bozotheclown]

Why would they lie?

To muddy the waters? But then I imagine if they claim something, the person who actually has that role could call bullshit, play their role at night, maybe?

But in this case, we don't know what roles have been distributed, so how could we know?

We do know what roles have been distributed, because all roles are distributed. 18 roles for 18 players.

[Chaqa]

I'll change my vote from HR, since it was only there because he surprised me by his silence.

I am going to pick a low hanging fruit, though. Low posters early on are in my scum pool.

Chaqa also had some odd things going on D1. He needs some chipotle, or he is scum.

##VOTE CHAQA

I'm still working on catching up... I made a decision to ignore the game until after pre-game since it seemed like a waste to talk much before I even knew my role.

How is your notebook going?

I'm starting it now lol

[seth24c]

Apparently I was not clear, I would like everyone to please answer this question:

What would you have chosen if you were scum and were making the decision for the mafia?

Uh I’m just glad I didn’t have to choose. Looks like the extra recruit is an obvious choice and that takes most of the budget. Other than that it’s probably keep away from town more than anything. Does scum gain money as the game goes on? How do they get out of the negative if they were to go negative?

These kinds of setup questions are so suspect to me. If you really didn't know you could read the setup and have an answer much faster than waiting for bozo to answer. And you don't seem like the lazy type, so I'm not loving this "I don't know how scum mechs work" angle from you.

I’ve read the setup several times both before and since then and am still confused where the 5*n part of the money setup comes from. To me that looked like a nightly allowance so that’s where my brain went.

[Jamiet99uk]

N.B. Please remember everyone that there's only six hours left in this day. Some consolidation might be nice.

[bozotheclown]

Why would they lie?

To muddy the waters? But then I imagine if they claim something, the person who actually has that role could call bullshit, play their role at night, maybe?

But in this case, we don't know what roles have been distributed, so how could we know?

And also, some roles are duplicates. There's more than one Faith Healer for instance.

That is the only role that is duplicated, and there are only 2 of those.

[kgray]

Why would we want to kill the treestump? It has less effect than other targets. And if it's because we know roles, I would think there would be others that the scum more likely have.

Which ones? Do you think scum will pass the chance to recruit? I am starting to suspect this "I don't understand the setup" act you are doing

I totally agree that Tree Stump is the most obvious choice to scum if they recruited, but I don't think it's worth to massclaim to prove this theory. Just have it in mind for later.

There's none in particular, but how does it benefit the mafia to have a dead person speaking? They don't need more info, all there is is just a possible slip? I could be missing something, but this role doesn't seem that powerful.

I do see now (after another look), that it gives +2 (which only strengthens my case that it's not a great role), but 2 doesn't seem that much.

I agree with Macca on this. Except for the +2 I don't see why scum would care about being the tree stump. It's not like town having both tree stump and restless spirit is way better for us than just having restless spirit. That's the important one because it actually matters for votes/numbers, and adding tree stump just so they have a "voice" doesn't make sense when they're not even the same player.

[dargorygel]

Since scum already know each and ever role in play, all they lack is knowledge of who ended up with what. This makes any push to label people to role highly suspect, yes?

Yes, Fluminator is behaving in a highly suspect manner, you are right. I understand why you want to vote for him.

Hmmm
This is odd.
When did I say I wanted to vote for him?
I mean, I AM considering it. It seems a better place to rest my vote than on Chaqa's non-posting with slight alibi...

[Jamiet99uk]

I’ve read the setup several times both before and since then and am still confused where the 5*n part of the money setup comes from. To me that looked like a nightly allowance so that’s where my brain went.

Seth, which part of this sentence do you find confusing?

"The mafia starting balance is set at 5*n, where n is the number of players."

It literally tells you what the "n" means, in the same sentence in which the equation is mentioned.

Why is this hard?

[Jamiet99uk]

Since scum already know each and ever role in play, all they lack is knowledge of who ended up with what. This makes any push to label people to role highly suspect, yes?

Yes, Fluminator is behaving in a highly suspect manner, you are right. I understand why you want to vote for him.

Hmmm
This is odd.
When did I say I wanted to vote for him?
I mean, I AM considering it. It seems a better place to rest my vote than on Chaqa's non-posting with slight alibi...

I inferred it from you saying that his behaviour was suspect, and I provided some emphasis because I want you to vote for him.

[BunnyGo]

Why would they lie?

To muddy the waters? But then I imagine if they claim something, the person who actually has that role could call bullshit, play their role at night, maybe?

But in this case, we don't know what roles have been distributed, so how could we know?

If anyone hardclaims my role we get a CC and get a 1-1 trade. Happily take it...

[bozotheclown]

@bo_sox
@Chaqa
@dargorygel
@Hamilton
@HR
@Maniac
@Vecna

Can you please tell me what choices you would have made if you were scum and were making the decision for the mafia?

If not, can you please tell me why you can't or don't want to answer the question?

I hadn't put much thought into it, but I would probably do something dumb like going super far negative to get really good roles and a fouth member and day chat and stuff. High risk, High reward.

What's funnny is, I was thinking and I KNEW you would be doing some crazy meta-mechanical-analysis of the pregame purchases lol

Even as town, why would you not put much thought into it? Don't you think it is worth trying to determine what the mafia might do?

[Jamiet99uk]

But in this case, we don't know what roles have been distributed, so how could we know?

And also, some roles are duplicates. There's more than one Faith Healer for instance.

That is the only role that is duplicated, and there are only 2 of those.

There are two trackers.

[Jamiet99uk]

Why would they lie?

To muddy the waters? But then I imagine if they claim something, the person who actually has that role could call bullshit, play their role at night, maybe?

But in this case, we don't know what roles have been distributed, so how could we know?

If anyone hardclaims my role we get a CC and get a 1-1 trade. Happily take it...

For now, Bunny, I would advise you to stop narrowing down the pool, even in this small fashion.

[dargorygel]

Yes, Fluminator is behaving in a highly suspect manner, you are right. I understand why you want to vote for him.

Hmmm
This is odd.
When did I say I wanted to vote for him?
I mean, I AM considering it. It seems a better place to rest my vote than on Chaqa's non-posting with slight alibi...

I inferred it from you saying that his behaviour was suspect, and I provided some emphasis because I want you to vote for him.

I am sitting here about to leave the interweb world for awhile... I do think that Fluminator is a good kill, today.
And I should not let the fact that you followed me onto chaqa be a deterrent from me following my own thougts, even though someone is bound to accuse me of sheeping.

I also recall that when I went to sleep, flum had a wagon... and then this morning his wagon seemed to have turned into unvotes. I looked for a claim or something, but I can not find it. If I have missed a reason why everyone bailed, let me know. I will try to check in later.
##VOTE FLUMINATOR

[Jamiet99uk]

@Teacon:

You said you'd be willing to answer urgent questions. I immediately referred you to one, and you haven't answered it.

*Nudge*

[seth24c]

Which ones? Do you think scum will pass the chance to recruit? I am starting to suspect this "I don't understand the setup" act you are doing

I totally agree that Tree Stump is the most obvious choice to scum if they recruited, but I don't think it's worth to massclaim to prove this theory. Just have it in mind for later.

There's none in particular, but how does it benefit the mafia to have a dead person speaking? They don't need more info, all there is is just a possible slip? I could be missing something, but this role doesn't seem that powerful.

I do see now (after another look), that it gives +2 (which only strengthens my case that it's not a great role), but 2 doesn't seem that much.

I agree with Macca on this. Except for the +2 I don't see why scum would care about being the tree stump. It's not like town having both tree stump and restless spirit is way better for us than just having restless spirit. That's the important one because it actually matters for votes/numbers, and adding tree stump just so they have a "voice" doesn't make sense when they're not even the same player.

This is what I thought too but the comparable roles that are similar in cost aren’t very valuable to mafia. Especially if mafia spent money on recruiting it’s pretty likely they are the stump just on a cost basis of the other roles.

[BunnyGo]

##call gm does mafia get a nightly allowance?

I'm not the GM but this has been discussed. They get no "new" funds. The only way they can generate credit is by using the options that create credit in the setup, such as creating bulletproofs, etc. They have no ongoing new income.

Ok thank you Jamie, I must have missed that discussion. Still not sure what the 5*n part of that post referred to.

Had more people signed up for the game, then scum would have had a bigger budget.

[bozotheclown]

Which ones? Do you think scum will pass the chance to recruit? I am starting to suspect this "I don't understand the setup" act you are doing

I totally agree that Tree Stump is the most obvious choice to scum if they recruited, but I don't think it's worth to massclaim to prove this theory. Just have it in mind for later.

There's none in particular, but how does it benefit the mafia to have a dead person speaking? They don't need more info, all there is is just a possible slip? I could be missing something, but this role doesn't seem that powerful.

I do see now (after another look), that it gives +2 (which only strengthens my case that it's not a great role), but 2 doesn't seem that much.

I agree with Macca on this. Except for the +2 I don't see why scum would care about being the tree stump. It's not like town having both tree stump and restless spirit is way better for us than just having restless spirit. That's the important one because it actually matters for votes/numbers, and adding tree stump just so they have a "voice" doesn't make sense when they're not even the same player.

I would have picked it for the +2 and to keep it away from town. Having a town clear around that can't be eliminated with the NK could be annoying for scum, even if they do not have a vote. The role has no direct use for scum.

[bozotheclown]

And also, some roles are duplicates. There's more than one Faith Healer for instance.

That is the only role that is duplicated, and there are only 2 of those.

There are two trackers.

Those are unique roles though, because they know if they are even or odd.

[seth24c]

I’ve read the setup several times both before and since then and am still confused where the 5*n part of the money setup comes from. To me that looked like a nightly allowance so that’s where my brain went.

Seth, which part of this sentence do you find confusing?

"The mafia starting balance is set at 5*n, where n is the number of players."

It literally tells you what the "n" means, in the same sentence in which the equation is mentioned.

Why is this hard?

“The balance will be changed over the course of the game” I see now that this is for nightly spends such as role blocks but last night it seemed pretty confusing to me. Especially with people saying they would do huge spends for roles (macca) I was wondering if I was missing some way that mafia would get out of the hole.