Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[worcej]

Here it is:

1-3x Reverse Alien DNA: The Reverse Alien DNA allows the user to heal a player afflicted by the Alien Virus. This is done by visiting another player during the order of adjudication while the game is still in progress and performing a heal action. Two weeks after the game ends, they will be cured of Alien DNA. Once used it is gone.

Like I said, I got my own answer.

[worcej]

What also sucks is the order of adjudication makes it so we cannot confirm if celaph is actually cured until N5...

This is inherently risky no matter what we do.

[ghug]

Here it is:

1-3x Reverse Alien DNA: The Reverse Alien DNA allows the user to heal a player afflicted by the Alien Virus. This is done by visiting another player during the order of adjudication while the game is still in progress and performing a heal action. Two weeks after the game ends, they will be cured of Alien DNA. Once used it is gone.

I wonder how Jamie feels about his role...

[ghug]

What also sucks is the order of adjudication makes it so we cannot confirm if celaph is actually cured until N5...

This is inherently risky no matter what we do.

Wait, why?

[Jamiet99uk]

What also sucks is the order of adjudication makes it so we cannot confirm if celaph is actually cured until N5...

This is inherently risky no matter what we do.

Wait, why?

I assume he means that if I scanned Celaph again tonight to see if Damo's kit works, I wouldn't get that result until EoN5?

[ghug]

What also sucks is the order of adjudication makes it so we cannot confirm if celaph is actually cured until N5...

This is inherently risky no matter what we do.

Wait, why?

I assume he means that if I scanned Celaph again tonight to see if Damo's kit works, I wouldn't get that result until EoN5?

At that point, if he is the alien, we'll likely have lost, so best to use your scan elsewhere.

[damo666]

I'm assuming Thamrick will flip alien. If he doesn't we will kill celaph I guess.

[ghug]

I'm assuming Thamrick will flip alien. If he doesn't we will kill celaph I guess.

Well, if we're going to kill celaph, we shouldn't heal him first.

I don't really buy thamrick as > random alien, and I'm with whoever said that he probably would have targeted a veteran whose tendencies he's aware of N1 rather than celaph.

[BobMcBob]

##call GM - this should be obvious, but just checking "The Alien wins when a majority of players are infected." So I read 'infected' as being as soon as they are infected not waiting until they scan Alien DNA. And I read it as being the game stops as soon as the majority is reached, so if it's 5 infected and 4 not infected the game stops, we can't DK/NK infected players to overturn that win condition and finally can you confirm the alien can be dead and still win?

a) Infected means infected, not detectable.
b) A dead alien can still win, if the majority of players are infected.

what? are you kidding with point B?



(im sorry but that is just ridiculous)

yeah this seems really, really broken
like way beyond what it should be

[worcej]

a) Infected means infected, not detectable.
b) A dead alien can still win, if the majority of players are infected.

what? are you kidding with point B?



(im sorry but that is just ridiculous)

yeah this seems really, really broken
like way beyond what it should be

I wouldn't call it broken. It's just a problem we cannot ignore.

[BobMcBob]

So do you all think I was actually jailed or just claim jailed? I understand the alien thinking. But unless I'm secretary, why would scum jail me and prevent my night action? (Hint: I can't be secretary based on my scan) If I wasn't jailed, who did BB jail that night and have you ever known BB to not use an action he's got? (Hint: no)

yeah okay this post smells more than a little fishy
i dont understand where any of this logic is coming from
dont particularly like it

Hint: His logic is pretty solid and exactly what I have been saying. Anyone voting Tham because they think he is scum and not the Alien is doing a shitty job at scum hunting.

i mean his play in and of itself has not been in any way remotely townie
which is at least half a reason to vote him

[ghug]

what? are you kidding with point B?



(im sorry but that is just ridiculous)

yeah this seems really, really broken
like way beyond what it should be

I wouldn't call it broken. It's just a problem we cannot ignore.

There's a reason I hate third parties.

[BobMcBob]

Your 50/50 analysis is rather off. There are several people, like myself, who typically do not get NK'ed early based off meta.

A smart alien player familiar with the players here could make choices on infections that are more likely to be around then not.

As you have been dedicating time to consider this, how likely do you think is Tham choosing Celaph for N1 infection?

I think it's possible, but unlikely because I would assume tham has not meta experience/knowledge on who celaph is.

If Tham was Alien, I'd assume he'd infect someone who has played for awhile like yourself, Jamie, Vecna, ghug, Foxcastle, etc.

id assume alien would go after someone like celaph or macca (or perhaps me) as players who are very unlikely to die early
infecting a good player is worthless if scum kills them off because theyre too problematic

[celaph]

As you have been dedicating time to consider this, how likely do you think is Tham choosing Celaph for N1 infection?

I think it's possible, but unlikely because I would assume tham has not meta experience/knowledge on who celaph is.

If Tham was Alien, I'd assume he'd infect someone who has played for awhile like yourself, Jamie, Vecna, ghug, Foxcastle, etc.

id assume alien would go after someone like celaph or macca (or perhaps me) as players who are very unlikely to die early
infecting a good player is worthless if scum kills them off because theyre too problematic

You're assuming that the alien knows that we're unlikely to die early. The problem with the Thamrick alien narrative is that I don't think Tham knows this about us and thus wouldn't target me.

Are there people out there with good meta knowledge and would see targeting me after I asked for it as rather humorous?

[BobMcBob]

Suggested line:
The next 3 kills are all directed towards hitting the alien and one of the next two being me. Mafia hold their kill both of the next two nights.

Worst case scenario we're sitting at 4 infected 12 alive right now. Killing two, one of which is infected and giving alien 2 nights to infect puts us at 5 infected 10 alive giving us one last shot to take them out.

Mafia can go ahead and kill, but they lose too if alien wins and we've already lost our deputy so they aren't giving TI more time to find them. Their only loss is if we kill maf while searching for alien. For them to kill they would have to risk that they are either killing an infected person or that an infected person is already dead.

This gives town 2 shots at alien which is just as many as in my ideal line where town just trusts that I'm not alien and doesn't kill me. It also gives Jamie one more scan than in that line. It only fails if mafia throw or if Jamie is alien and we just got fucked by having our AR vaporized D1.

Alien can kill to make it look like mafia killed, but if there is enough town buy-in to this plan then we can assume that it was the alien's kill. If everyone publicly assumes this then the mafia is throwing even more so by not holding kills. And from the alien perspective, killing is strictly worse than infecting at reaching their wincon.

Thoughts?

this seems very funky, but i think i could get down with this
especially if alien can win after death we need to deal with it sooner rather than later, and mafia is comparatively unthreatening right now

[celaph]

I'm assuming Thamrick will flip alien. If he doesn't we will kill celaph I guess.

Why would you be healing me tonight only to kill me tomorrow if Tham doesn't flip alien? You're healing me because you assume I'm infected town and want to cure me so you don't have to kill me. Or you're killing me because you assume I'm alien and think healing won't work. Do one or the other.

Or you're alien and know that you win if our next two kills are Tham then me while mafia kills during the nights.

[celaph]

Suggested line:
The next 3 kills are all directed towards hitting the alien and one of the next two being me. Mafia hold their kill both of the next two nights.

Worst case scenario we're sitting at 4 infected 12 alive right now. Killing two, one of which is infected and giving alien 2 nights to infect puts us at 5 infected 10 alive giving us one last shot to take them out.

Mafia can go ahead and kill, but they lose too if alien wins and we've already lost our deputy so they aren't giving TI more time to find them. Their only loss is if we kill maf while searching for alien. For them to kill they would have to risk that they are either killing an infected person or that an infected person is already dead.

This gives town 2 shots at alien which is just as many as in my ideal line where town just trusts that I'm not alien and doesn't kill me. It also gives Jamie one more scan than in that line. It only fails if mafia throw or if Jamie is alien and we just got fucked by having our AR vaporized D1.

Alien can kill to make it look like mafia killed, but if there is enough town buy-in to this plan then we can assume that it was the alien's kill. If everyone publicly assumes this then the mafia is throwing even more so by not holding kills. And from the alien perspective, killing is strictly worse than infecting at reaching their wincon.

Thoughts?

this seems very funky, but i think i could get down with this
especially if alien can win after death we need to deal with it sooner rather than later, and mafia is comparatively unthreatening right now

The risk is if mafia is playing without hope then they possibly throw to the alien.

[BobMcBob]

I think it's possible, but unlikely because I would assume tham has not meta experience/knowledge on who celaph is.

If Tham was Alien, I'd assume he'd infect someone who has played for awhile like yourself, Jamie, Vecna, ghug, Foxcastle, etc.

id assume alien would go after someone like celaph or macca (or perhaps me) as players who are very unlikely to die early
infecting a good player is worthless if scum kills them off because theyre too problematic

You're assuming that the alien knows that we're unlikely to die early. The problem with the Thamrick alien narrative is that I don't think Tham knows this about us and thus wouldn't target me.

Are there people out there with good meta knowledge and would see targeting me after I asked for it as rather humorous?

thamrick has been paying attention though by the looks of his few posts that have been relevant, and i think he could probably see a reason to infect you
its perhaps less likely than some other people though

[BobMcBob]

Killing celpah is dumb IMHO. If it wasn't for his DNA scan he'd probably be heavily town read.

We're better off trying to kill scum today we might hit alien or infected townie.

Scum might hit the alien tonight.

Tomorrow we can reassess and kill celaph if needs be

the thing is alien is immune to nk
and it can also act a lot more townily than a standard scum
i dont think this argument really holds up
i also dont really want to kill celaph today but theres absolutely a reason to do it

[rdrivera2005]

Suggested line:
The next 3 kills are all directed towards hitting the alien and one of the next two being me. Mafia hold their kill both of the next two nights.

Worst case scenario we're sitting at 4 infected 12 alive right now. Killing two, one of which is infected and giving alien 2 nights to infect puts us at 5 infected 10 alive giving us one last shot to take them out.

Mafia can go ahead and kill, but they lose too if alien wins and we've already lost our deputy so they aren't giving TI more time to find them. Their only loss is if we kill maf while searching for alien. For them to kill they would have to risk that they are either killing an infected person or that an infected person is already dead.

This gives town 2 shots at alien which is just as many as in my ideal line where town just trusts that I'm not alien and doesn't kill me. It also gives Jamie one more scan than in that line. It only fails if mafia throw or if Jamie is alien and we just got fucked by having our AR vaporized D1.

Alien can kill to make it look like mafia killed, but if there is enough town buy-in to this plan then we can assume that it was the alien's kill. If everyone publicly assumes this then the mafia is throwing even more so by not holding kills. And from the alien perspective, killing is strictly worse than infecting at reaching their wincon.

Thoughts?

this seems very funky, but i think i could get down with this
especially if alien can win after death we need to deal with it sooner rather than later, and mafia is comparatively unthreatening right now

The risk is if mafia is playing without hope then they possibly throw to the alien.

Mafia still have 3 members, so why they will be playing without hope. I believe Brain told the truth about Jasnah being Shaman, so Mafia don't have to worry with Doc saves. In fact, Mafia is probably in a better position then town to win this game, and their biggest concern should be the Alien.