M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[worcej]

is anyone irritated by what im doing and wants me to cease because its flooding the thread with links to things anyone could just go look up on their own?

If these massive amount of pages to get caught up on are solely because of you, then yes I am irritated.

[President Eden]

also I find Boat’s OOG explanations for not being around kind of sus. feels like this guy was always finding ways to be around and active in previous games.

like obviously RL things DO get in the way and ARE more important. don’t get me wrong. but at a minimum it seems like Boat is using them as a pass more than in previous games, which might be indicative of mafia.

this is kind of weak and I don’t really like looking too far into this stuff anyway but

yea

[worcej]

I’m gonna try just not arguing with you here, because I don’t think there’s much to be gained for anyone by doing so and I think we’re both liable to let it consume the thread. Scumread me if you want. I think a neutral observer will see past the over the top rhetoric to the fact that this is just us disagreeing on something and you blowing it way out of proportion.

probably a good strategy as you have no argument and towns don’t read

Only when an entire fucking page of forum is one post from you.

The TL;DR is a nice touch at least.

[brainbomb]

I think the obsession with Maniac being scum thing relies on the notion that Maniac chose every single exact action which only helps scum and therefore it is just too improbable to envision that he just made all the wrong choices

and I say this having read celaph posts about Maniac and in now way do I see celaph talking about a scumteam member in that celaph iso.

so basically were saying it isnt about celaphs posts about maniac. thats all wifom.

all that matters is maniac acted in scums interest in every phase of the process so hes indisputably scum.

which if you really think about is the perfect miskill for scum because theres really no defense for the actions. Maniac can say he felt this way at this time and no matter what he says people will think its obfuscation

[BusinessLamp]

Bonatogether, Chaqa, RHK, PE, and TFB all voted for celaph at the beginning of D2. I think there is likely at least one busser in this group. Chaqa and TFB both participated in the Maniac wagon, but I would not rule out Bonatogether or RHK hard bussing celaph.

Chaqa and TFB both also hedged their votes on Maniac, saying that it was to make things interesting. This is consistent with Chaqa's style of play, but from a TFB!scum perspective he could've been trying to make a third option viable. When it became apparent that wouldn't be the case, he switched back.

I'm not super convinced of this but it's a possibility

[worcej]

Overall heres my grades so far of how celaph spoke to and was spoken of by these folks

TFB A-
Worcej B
Ghug B+
Damo C
Jamiet99uk D
DemonRHK A
bontogether A

B is on par for how I went about college - I accept this.

Joke aside: what is the determination really for each grade?

[President Eden]

I’m gonna try just not arguing with you here, because I don’t think there’s much to be gained for anyone by doing so and I think we’re both liable to let it consume the thread. Scumread me if you want. I think a neutral observer will see past the over the top rhetoric to the fact that this is just us disagreeing on something and you blowing it way out of proportion.

probably a good strategy as you have no argument and towns don’t read

Only when an entire fucking page of forum is one post from you.

The TL;DR is a nice touch at least.

dude it’s important. there’s no fluff there. it’s long because literally everything ghug did that I called out was blatantly promoting a mafia agenda in a way that most people would just overlook or ignore.

and it’s not at all often the case that everything someone does in a sequence promotes a mafia agenda, but that’s what happened there.

[BusinessLamp]

[case]

love this post

hate that like 5 people will quote the entire thing to nitpick 1 line

do you love the post in terms of agreeing with all the logic? that's surprising to me, normally you're the first to pick apart flawed stuff, and i don't think that case holds up at all.

[worcej]

rdrivera is very hard to use the bot on because almost nobody uses his full username so you have to guess what they used

You can use |

Great town energy from brain right now.

im bewildered you dont find my research exhausting and thread clogging

The trick is your not going down wild theories honestly and are actually looking at evidence.

[President Eden]

I think the obsession with Maniac being scum thing relies on the notion that Maniac chose every single exact action which only helps scum and therefore it is just too improbable to envision that he just made all the wrong choices

and I say this having read celaph posts about Maniac and in now way do I see celaph talking about a scumteam member in that celaph iso.

so basically were saying it isnt about celaphs posts about maniac. thats all wifom.

all that matters is maniac acted in scums interest in every phase of the process so hes indisputably scum.

which if you really think about is the perfect miskill for scum because theres really no defense for the actions. Maniac can say he felt this way at this time and no matter what he says people will think its obfuscation

I wouldn’t say indisputable, but yes at some point when a player has played exactly according to mafia interests at every critical phase of the game, you don’t have a choice but to resolve their alignment one way or another.

that’s why I’ve been couching it as “resolve Maniac/Lamp,” because IMO if Maniac is town and just accidentally shilled for scum all game, then Lamp looks like the one trying to convert that into a miskill

[brainbomb]

Overall heres my grades so far of how celaph spoke to and was spoken of by these folks

TFB A-
Worcej B
Ghug B+
Damo C
Jamiet99uk D
DemonRHK A
bontogether A

B is on par for how I went about college - I accept this.

Joke aside: what is the determination really for each grade?

Its all my opinion of how I feel a person looks after reading both sides (celaph talking about x and x talking about celaph). I feel a certain way about how the interactions made someone look and applied a grade. and that grade is how I also feel about someones liklihood of being scum as a result. This is malleable and not cemented. I just wanted some clarity to give on what my conclusions are in terms of overall assessment

[BusinessLamp]

Blamp x Celaph number of post of both direct and indirect mentions of each other:

Night 2:

Blamp mentions celaph in 7 posts out of 28
Celaph none

including "celaph none" without the clarification that celaph made no posts at night feels incredibly disingenuous

[brainbomb]

I think the obsession with Maniac being scum thing relies on the notion that Maniac chose every single exact action which only helps scum and therefore it is just too improbable to envision that he just made all the wrong choices

and I say this having read celaph posts about Maniac and in now way do I see celaph talking about a scumteam member in that celaph iso.

so basically were saying it isnt about celaphs posts about maniac. thats all wifom.

all that matters is maniac acted in scums interest in every phase of the process so hes indisputably scum.

which if you really think about is the perfect miskill for scum because theres really no defense for the actions. Maniac can say he felt this way at this time and no matter what he says people will think its obfuscation

I wouldn’t say indisputable, but yes at some point when a player has played exactly according to mafia interests at every critical phase of the game, you don’t have a choice but to resolve their alignment one way or another.

that’s why I’ve been couching it as “resolve Maniac/Lamp,” because IMO if Maniac is town and just accidentally shilled for scum all game, then Lamp looks like the one trying to convert that into a miskill

mafia games are lost by looking exclusively at one player and saying that in every action this person helped scums interest. ive seen countless examples of people piling on and just being wrong and that spirals into six phases
of dead town in a row and boom suddenly its a runaway maf win because people followed their noses onto people who didnt assert themselves or got too much wrong to be able to trust.

now granted town following its nose is what youre supposed to do. you dont play the wild theory game you do what makes the most sense. I like the idea that people just play like shit and thats part of the game. scum are more precise and tend to not leave so many skid marks in their underwear for all to see on the clothes line

[worcej]

Neither of those are FACTS

I mean you can disregard everything im thinking thats fine. If we cant agree on those basic ideas im certainly going to keep trying to illustrate it because we dont have unlimited swaths of time to trifle over it. TFB is independently towny in his posts.

Is there a possible world in which Flipper Celaph chooses Godfather to make us think the Godfather is dead, thus making us wrongly townclear the actual Godfather?

Depends on who the flipper is - I can see some bullshit like this from only a couple players.

[worcej]

I mean you can disregard everything im thinking thats fine. If we cant agree on those basic ideas im certainly going to keep trying to illustrate it because we dont have unlimited swaths of time to trifle over it. TFB is independently towny in his posts.

Is there a possible world in which Flipper Celaph chooses Godfather to make us think the Godfather is dead, thus making us wrongly townclear the actual Godfather?

Depends on who the flipper is - I can see some bullshit like this from only a couple players.

I do not think celaph is this type of player. This is a Chaqa-chaos type move.

(hit submit on cell phone screen before finishing post)

[worcej]

if there is a hard busser its chaqa. celaph spent the most time in omgus vs chaqa

Chaqa is obvtown, so this isn't the case.

[worcej]

if we wanna be sure to stimulate an environment where the cop scans are irrelevant as possible then lets use WCS thinking. Im fine with that.

Unfortunately the presence of a Flipper, a Miller and a Godfather means Cop is seriously weakened in this particular McSetup

I don't see how the flipper weakens the cop - explain?

[worcej]

If a plane crashes at sea where do you bury the survivors?

You don't bury survivors, hur hur.

Got'em

[brainbomb]

we know celaph wouldve had to choose what to flip as on day 1 by eod when he knew he was on gallows he wouldve had to make a conscious decision to flip as godfather then rather than role claim and out a pr in the process. which he easily couldve probably triggered and the fact he wouldve chosen godfather without knowing he was certain to die or not would seem like sub optimal play from a scum pov. what do they actually gain out of that other than 1/3 guys is still unscannable with any accuracy?
choosing godfather as flipper doesnt clone you into cop scan immunity at best all it does is sow doubt on scans. whereas if he were to claim doctor he can actually out the doctor. if he can claim cop he can actually out the cop. and same is true for janitor.

the more likely reality is he didnt have anything to claim because he was godfather and hoped hed get false cleared n1

[worcej]

worcej has been downgraded to a D

Fuck, is this now common core teaching or something?!