MAFIA 92 - The return of the Witchfinder General [GAME THREAD]

[SpiritoftheRadio]

its probably a dub if we kill vecna then bb then bozo, but also we kind of owe the win to vecna tho. that bb meltdown would not have happened without him. Wanna say that for the record

[ND]

I've been pounding some voodoos man

[ND]

No noe will give me the cred for it but I brought Brain's epic meltdown out into full focus.

The haters in the god qt are prob saying i'm an idiot rn. Lol.

[ND]

everyone always hates on me

[ND]

they say I am evil because I'm rude sometimes and kind of mean. Whatever. F*** em.

[ND]

bed time

[SpiritoftheRadio]

No noe will give me the cred for it but I brought Brain's epic meltdown out into full focus.

The haters in the god qt are prob saying i'm an idiot rn. Lol.

idk man you did, and you and BB's interaction were a really bright moment of the last day or so. I literally belly laughed at a forum and that doesn't happen often, and is why i come back here when i could go elsewhere. God qt gunna god qt and pretend they'd know what to do when they already know everything and it all seems so obvious. I don't think I've played a particularly competent game all and all, but I've thoroughly enjoyed it, and I got town read enough to not be a miskill. And I'm okay with my reads at the end of the day. Is what it is, i'll do better next time when im less burnt out from working. I am pretty content with town's chances of winning

[SpiritoftheRadio]

they say I am evil because I'm rude sometimes and kind of mean. Whatever. F*** em.

You're not evil at all, and I have adapted to look at your attitude as funny and genuinely enjoy reading your posts but... I was rude sometimes when I played here because I felt the genuine frustration would convey towniness. Then I realized I was just being a dick. I like you, ND, but you're one of the people I like, of many in my life, who I 100% understand why people get rubbed the wrong way by. Idk, just put yourself in other people's shoes more.

I grew up in deep mountain country and then i got (almost as of rn) a phd and am now a physics professor coming from a family who has 0 college degrees going back 4 generations and have had to thread the line between a lot of different politics and immensely different people my whole life and never felt like anyone really wanted to understand me or other people wherever I went. Never felt more fish out of water than I was in grad school (full disclosure I'm literally a blue haired progressive, and you think I'd fit in there but I unironically say y'all and folks so that puts me out of the in crowd).

If you wanna say fuck it, that's 100% your call, but also, you're fun to be around no matter how much people flame you and you'd get a lot more acceptance if you were a little less abrasive and political. I'm fine if I'm told to go fuck myself, I respect it tbh, but from slightly buzzed internet person to slightly buzzed internet person, I've seen enough in this game (and many times before) to know you'd be accepted completely if you took a second before you posted to think about what people would feel about what you said before you posted it. Its very clear to me you've done enough with the people here to warrant MANY chances, and they generally want the best of you. Even if they're pricks sometimes can can't make drunken mush posts like I can <3

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 6.5

Vecna (4) - foodcoats, bozotheclown, worcej, ND
Foodcoats (1) - Brainbomb
Brainbomb (1) - SpirtoftheRadio

Vecna is scheduled.
Vecna must vote.

13 hrs 12 mins left in Day Six.

[foodcoats]

ok so full disclosure, i have had drinks. 100% thought I missed eod like 40mins ago and have been rereading thread since. Thats where we're at.

Outside of ND trolling BB, that was a bit of a slog to read through. Yesterday catching up t0o thread was more fun.

I'm voting ##brainbomb

I like the vecna play, I made a similar play last game I played where BB and I were recruiters on opposing mafia teams when i got confirmation of his identity, not 3p but close enough. I tried to rally town to kill him and outed myself, and they just killed me and lost because they were too dumb to see it. I think vecna both deserves a 50/50 and I want to live in a meta where his gambit is rewarded since it makes more interesting plays possible. Also BB is scum and it isn't really ambiguous after what he's said. I don't understand why they didn't kill 3p (vecna) but they didn't. Tbh he did play a good game socially, but if he didn't kill the 3p when they knew it, I think that is a good enough reason to lose. I am interested in hearing Vecna explain how they knew he was 3p, but even if that was vamp and he didn't, I'm happier with a BB scum kill.

Food, you wanna entertain giving Vecna a shot? Lol

No.

[foodcoats]

at this point, I'm pretty sure its bb + bozo, mostly because ND and worcej's posts have been very town leaning to me. I'll kill between vecna, bb, and bozo, since their my head cannot 3p + mafia respectively

I agree, BB and bozo.

Let’s get rid of Vecna first so there’s no 3P shenanigans.

[foodcoats]

its probably a dub if we kill vecna then bb then bozo, but also we kind of owe the win to vecna tho. that bb meltdown would not have happened without him. Wanna say that for the record

We don’t owe him anything. It’s a game. He is trying to win. You should be too.

[Vecna]

Okay, well I do think voting that the game ends in a draw seems fair.

I dont want vecna to lose, and his role if its really what he says it is had almost no chance to win.

yeah, finding a scum PR N1 and not being able to redirect their kill actively killed my wincon.

town dayklling a town PR d1 completely killed my alternative wincon.

Foodcoats blundering himself into outing himself as a PR made it even harder for me to win.

[Vecna]

I actually left my living room, where my kids are now plugged into Bluey, to come to my PC to type this out versus using my phone and getting annoyed while doing it.

After reading the posts so far, this post is aimed at Spirit, food, and ND - who I believe are the remaining town with me. GT, mark my words (and lawlz at me if I am wrong - post-game will tell me the truth when I get there)

My conclusion on all of what's happened this phase is the following:

• 3p!Vecna is making the best move he can to give him the best chance to win. He has concluded that scum are keeping food alive, a pretty well established clear at this point (no CC from anyone else), alive because they are concerned about killing him and then their PR dying and they then lose. By keeping food alive, they ensure 3p cannot win.
• The fact that food is alive still boosts the credibility of Vecna's claim. Unless scum think food is a dogshit player, I've never seen a scum team keep a semi-clear player alive over a VT who had people scumming him (ghug). The 3p existence, and their potential to know that it's a witch via schenanigans, is the most likely explanation for why food is alive now.
• Vecna's potential information could end the game for scum, thus this offer impacts them the most. There's a lot of hypotheticals here and Vecna may not have all the information he is indicating he does, but he most likely does know 1 or 2 VTs, which narrows the pool of POE down significantly. He also is offering up their last PR specifically, so it'd be down to that last one player to pull this game off (if even possible)
• It is perfectly in the realm of reason that Vecna could be lying here. Quite frankly, I expect him to be lying a little bit. But, the second bullet does lead me to believe he isn't the warlock here. I've made the GM calls and several comments piecing together how he got the potential information.

So that's my list of what's happening - effectively what got us here. Here is my conclusion on what happens:

• By accepting Vecna's offer, we (the town) point a gun at scum and force them to make a move. Mafia, ultimately, boils down to town usually making uninformed decisions and deducing who is the bad guys and (hopefully) eliminating them. We usually fuck this up because of one or two people and thus scum win at the end. Based off how this game has been going, and this is solely my own opinion, idk if town is going to be able to unify to accomplish a win because of the amount of people scumming me and I am a VT.
  
  So, in this case, what makes Vecna's offer unique (and hilarious to me) is this:
  1. If Vecna is telling the truth and is the witch - scum have to be the kingmaker. Do they side with town to spite Vecna or do they give the game to Vecna? Usually this is forced upon town when we've effectively lost, but we're not there yet - also adding more credibility to Vecna FWIW - and there is still a chance all 3 parties can win. I'll let you piece the details together yourself here, as I don't want to help the scum out lol...
  2. If Vecna is lying and is the Warlock - scum know he is lying in this case and, to prevent town from giving the game to Vecna, they must out one of themselves by calling Vecna's shit out.
• Based off above, I believe the best strategy scum can employ right now is to try to push the narrative that Vecna is the Warlock, regardless of being factual or not. The Warlock is the big bad boogie-man of win-now mode and the remaining 2 scum need to invalidate Vecna's offer as much as possible to damage control. It's in their best interest to promote this attack. For this reason, and the posting being done so far, I believe the last scum pair is brain and bozo.

And for the sake of addressing the attacks at me:

• Scum!worcej would never in my lifetime have made the amount of posts to confirm the information with GM calls to piece this shit together. I would've done the same exact shit as BB and bozo - push the warlock narrative exclusively to invalidate the offer from Vecna.
• In a vacuum, the offer does force a 50/50-ish situation for town to win, but I feel those odds are better because of the amount of people mistakenly scumming me. I am actively addressing the issues you guys have with my gameplay right now, but consistently I am being flagged as scummy for my reasoning (recently food's comments) and then meta attacks. There are very few actual "you did this this game, thus scummy" lines outside of BB's manipulation/conspiracy thoughts. I am at a loss for why you'd think scum!worcej would do any of this analysis or entertain Vecna's offer if you really think this through. The only thing I can come up with is you think I'm trying to do a crazy game changing ploy, but if you've been scum with me, you know I like to be a puppeteer and manipulate things subtley, not with some fucking nutty play like this.

Alright - wall post done. Hopefully you read it and get where my head is at.

brainbomb has apparently confirmed Vecna is the witch. I don't think Vecna thought his claim out very well, though. I don't agree it is a 50/50 situation for town, because there is no reason for us to let Vecna take a 50/50 shot at foodcoats when foodcoats is able to tell us whether we need to DK Vecna today or not.

We need to DK brainbomb and Vecna, the order only matters if foodcoats protected himself N5. foodcoats is voting for Vecna, so I will take that as a clue, unless foodcoats says otherwise.

##VOTE Vecna

if he was roleblocked he can self-save regardless.

You can confirm this with the GM

[Vecna]

BB has offered that information up

What did he say? Combing the iso again…

Bringing my own post back up.

There are logical inconsistencies in Vecna’s claim. (Unless I missed something.)

So I’m just mulling over what is going on.

In specific I’m wondering about the N3 claim because that is where Vecna’s story falls apart I think.

There are no inconsistencies. Youre just missing the bigger picture, and you'll be unable to grasp it without me offering it up.

You dont wanna play ball. I respect that.

Even though its easy to say since you wont have to be the one to actually catch the last scum.

[Vecna]

Or I just missed something lol

its due to a very arcane mechanical interaction.

You'll see it after the game

[Vecna]

How does scum know there is a witch as of N3 and how does that square with Vecna’s plan as written? To me there is an error. Wondering if anyone else is seeing it.

I assumed Vecna is lying about visits/timing honestly.

As you should. Im telling the truth in this instance, but you have no reason to believe anything I say.

[Vecna]

I actually left my living room, where my kids are now plugged into Bluey, to come to my PC to type this out versus using my phone and getting annoyed while doing it.

After reading the posts so far, this post is aimed at Spirit, food, and ND - who I believe are the remaining town with me. GT, mark my words (and lawlz at me if I am wrong - post-game will tell me the truth when I get there)

My conclusion on all of what's happened this phase is the following:

• 3p!Vecna is making the best move he can to give him the best chance to win. He has concluded that scum are keeping food alive, a pretty well established clear at this point (no CC from anyone else), alive because they are concerned about killing him and then their PR dying and they then lose. By keeping food alive, they ensure 3p cannot win.
• The fact that food is alive still boosts the credibility of Vecna's claim. Unless scum think food is a dogshit player, I've never seen a scum team keep a semi-clear player alive over a VT who had people scumming him (ghug). The 3p existence, and their potential to know that it's a witch via schenanigans, is the most likely explanation for why food is alive now.
• Vecna's potential information could end the game for scum, thus this offer impacts them the most. There's a lot of hypotheticals here and Vecna may not have all the information he is indicating he does, but he most likely does know 1 or 2 VTs, which narrows the pool of POE down significantly. He also is offering up their last PR specifically, so it'd be down to that last one player to pull this game off (if even possible)
• It is perfectly in the realm of reason that Vecna could be lying here. Quite frankly, I expect him to be lying a little bit. But, the second bullet does lead me to believe he isn't the warlock here. I've made the GM calls and several comments piecing together how he got the potential information.

So that's my list of what's happening - effectively what got us here. Here is my conclusion on what happens:

• By accepting Vecna's offer, we (the town) point a gun at scum and force them to make a move. Mafia, ultimately, boils down to town usually making uninformed decisions and deducing who is the bad guys and (hopefully) eliminating them. We usually fuck this up because of one or two people and thus scum win at the end. Based off how this game has been going, and this is solely my own opinion, idk if town is going to be able to unify to accomplish a win because of the amount of people scumming me and I am a VT.
  
  So, in this case, what makes Vecna's offer unique (and hilarious to me) is this:
  1. If Vecna is telling the truth and is the witch - scum have to be the kingmaker. Do they side with town to spite Vecna or do they give the game to Vecna? Usually this is forced upon town when we've effectively lost, but we're not there yet - also adding more credibility to Vecna FWIW - and there is still a chance all 3 parties can win. I'll let you piece the details together yourself here, as I don't want to help the scum out lol...
  2. If Vecna is lying and is the Warlock - scum know he is lying in this case and, to prevent town from giving the game to Vecna, they must out one of themselves by calling Vecna's shit out.
• Based off above, I believe the best strategy scum can employ right now is to try to push the narrative that Vecna is the Warlock, regardless of being factual or not. The Warlock is the big bad boogie-man of win-now mode and the remaining 2 scum need to invalidate Vecna's offer as much as possible to damage control. It's in their best interest to promote this attack. For this reason, and the posting being done so far, I believe the last scum pair is brain and bozo.

And for the sake of addressing the attacks at me:

• Scum!worcej would never in my lifetime have made the amount of posts to confirm the information with GM calls to piece this shit together. I would've done the same exact shit as BB and bozo - push the warlock narrative exclusively to invalidate the offer from Vecna.
• In a vacuum, the offer does force a 50/50-ish situation for town to win, but I feel those odds are better because of the amount of people mistakenly scumming me. I am actively addressing the issues you guys have with my gameplay right now, but consistently I am being flagged as scummy for my reasoning (recently food's comments) and then meta attacks. There are very few actual "you did this this game, thus scummy" lines outside of BB's manipulation/conspiracy thoughts. I am at a loss for why you'd think scum!worcej would do any of this analysis or entertain Vecna's offer if you really think this through. The only thing I can come up with is you think I'm trying to do a crazy game changing ploy, but if you've been scum with me, you know I like to be a puppeteer and manipulate things subtley, not with some fucking nutty play like this.

Alright - wall post done. Hopefully you read it and get where my head is at.

brainbomb has apparently confirmed Vecna is the witch. I don't think Vecna thought his claim out very well, though. I don't agree it is a 50/50 situation for town, because there is no reason for us to let Vecna take a 50/50 shot at foodcoats when foodcoats is able to tell us whether we need to DK Vecna today or not.

We need to DK brainbomb and Vecna, the order only matters if foodcoats protected himself N5. foodcoats is voting for Vecna, so I will take that as a clue, unless foodcoats says otherwise.

##VOTE Vecna

I do agree that BB’s meltdown kinda confirms that Vecna was going to finger him and we could (and really should) kill Vecna now.

I was trying to ascertain his partner and I do think it’s Spirit, with the slight off-chance that it’s you.

My offer was not going to be brainbomb

[Vecna]

##vote Vecna

Sorry chap, but BB went frantic and killed your value position

I was under the impression that BB was obvious scum as soon as they NK'd ghug.

It shouldve been obvious at least to anyone paying attention.

Killing ghug was a misplay on their part. They should have killed foodcoats and offered up their goon, so town could never kill their PR untill the 3 way.

Like I said, I was never gonna offer you brainbomb

[Vecna]

Vecna, real respect real. Might be time for you to claim your actual role before the end hammers start flyin

Ive strongly contemplated counter-claiming for a long time, but I do not think it was ever going to be believable with how it was me that outted foodcoats blunder, and how i responded after that.

Also, he probably has some silly softs hiding somewhere. Which I do not.

It wouldve been an embarrasing display. Even more so after I had already claimed 3p.