MAFIA 63: THE SCOURGE [HIDDEN]

[Fluminator]

Ok Donny, I have a new scumish read outside of those 2. I think it might be damo again lol.

Don't ask for reasons yet, it's still in gut phase.

[damo666]

My current groups fwiw

Strong Town

Jamie PE
-------

Medium Town

Chaqa
--------

Weak Town

Aaro
Bozo
Donny
rdr
-------

???

Bona *
Brain **
Bunny **
Celaph *
EMC *
Flum
Ghug *
HB *
Vecna **
Worcej **

Willing to vote any in the ??? group but the more the asterisks the greater the willingness to vote them.

What makes each person have more asterisks than not?

My willingness to vote them based on scuminess/value of flip/feel

This is a low effort list that is on-par for your low effort scum games.

I don't disagree. Doesn't mean I'm scum this game though does it?

[Vecna]

I've been thinking a bit about the RHK kill. I read through all of his posts, and while I'd like a second and third opinion, I don't see anything that immediately jumps out as crumbing or hinting at being a PR. Here's a link to his ISO if anyone wants to check me:

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?us ... t=d1-&g=63

So, I suspect two possible motivations for his NK:

1. Low-information kill on a *possible* PR, since he was low profile
2. Removing someone driving suspicion on a possible scum player (bran and celaph)

I suspect #1. Most of the "usual" N1 kills are under suspicion (HR, Vecna, rivera, ghug, etc.) so I think that would explain this kill as RHK is scary late game.

I'm offended that you think RHK is scary late game.

lets kill chaqa

[worcej]

worcej is my top suspect for these reasons:

1. ND getting subbed D1 is a scum red flag for me.
2. ND's 3 posts at the beginning of D1, when he was presumably reading the game, did not call out anything game related, which is a stark contrast to the beginning of his D1 in M62, and to what I remember about ND's typical town games.
3. The similarity to what ND did in M49.
4. worcej entering the game by criticizing the ND wagon.

I am also concerned about BunnyGo, because what he did D1 asking for character names seems like something he would do to come across as town, and I can buy that he has a tendency to post less at night as scum. Not posting for the first half of D2 could have been a way to cover for his lack of N1 posts after you pointed out his lack of posting at night in M62 and M61.

Based just on D1 voting, I think emc and celaph are moat likely town. I doubt emc would move his vote around like that at EOD as scum, and I can't see celaph switching his vote from ND to Maniac at EOD as scum, regardless of ND's alignment.

3/4 of these reasons are based on a guy who posted 4 times on D1.

This is terrible reasoning to vote my slot on D2.

I know it's annoying to have a read over something you can't defend yourself, but this isn't a terrible reasoning. It's much better then a lot of reasoning to get wagons going, including both D1 top wagons.

This said, I personally would give you at least a day to show something to overcome this reason, but until now you didn't

I disagree because we're now on D2 - this is not a great reason for a D2 wagon.

What did you want me to show you to overcome this obvious statement of fact?

[aarodactyl]

I need to get back to work, but I have a quick question for everyone (except ghug). What's your opinion on Donny? I think ghug has been town reading them, and I think a few people have been scumreading him, but I don't remember who (and I'm already playing too much during work).

[President Eden]

Lol at HB mixing up the subs. If HB is mafia then I think Durginator and worcND are the same alignment. I don’t see how he could have mixed that up unless both are town or both are mafia.

Is it likely that scum!HB would confuse two of his own team-mates?

I wouldn’t say so. I mention it because it’s believable to me that it could happen, whereas I don’t think it could happen if he has to make up a town read and a mafia read for those slots. More likely HB being mafia makes them both town.

Trouble is that we get nothing out of his flip really if he’s town. And I’m just not sure what he is.

@Flum—Jamie and I fought hard n1 and he seemed genuinely pissed at me for being dismissive of him at one point, and it’d be crazy for him to have the react he did to what I said if he were mafia, like actually trying to gaslight me kind of crazy. Plus, while I think he’s misguided in his belief ghug slipped, I don’t think he pursues this in the way he does if he is mafia.

[Donny Dude]

I prefer there to be a tie heading into EoD.

What is your reason that a tie is better for eods?

I don't think a tie is the best result *at* EoD, but late switches to avoid a tie provide good info.

I have not played with Bona before but anyone who has, is it typical for bona to move wagons into tying positions like now or on d1 where he did it with myself and maniac?

[worcej]

My current groups fwiw

Strong Town

Jamie PE
-------

Medium Town

Chaqa
--------

Weak Town

Aaro
Bozo
Donny
rdr
-------

???

Bona *
Brain **
Bunny **
Celaph *
EMC *
Flum
Ghug *
HB *
Vecna **
Worcej **

Willing to vote any in the ??? group but the more the asterisks the greater the willingness to vote them.

What makes each person have more asterisks than not?

My willingness to vote them based on scuminess/value of flip/feel

This is a low effort list that is on-par for your low effort scum games.

I don't disagree. Doesn't mean I'm scum this game though does it?

1. You continue to avoid answering the question why with all of your responses.

2. Not necessarily, but yet you continue to avoid being open and are operating 'close to the chest'

[Jamiet99uk]

I need to get back to work, but I have a quick question for everyone (except ghug). What's your opinion on Donny? I think ghug has been town reading them, and I think a few people have been scumreading him, but I don't remember who (and I'm already playing too much during work).

I regard Donny as a mild townlean. Today, I like some of the questions he is asking people, and I like him pressing Bozo for reads on the basis of his observation that scum!Bozo's reads don't evolve much.

[damo666]

##unvote

worcej townlike in recent posts

[Jamiet99uk]

Indeed on the basis of what I just said:

@BOZOTHECLOWN:

Could we have some reads from you please? Your vote has been parked on Worcej the whole day but who else do you scumread? Who do you think is town?

[Vecna]

##vote chaqa

[President Eden]

Chaqa did you medscan me last night? Alternatively did somebody vent?

[worcej]

worcej is my top suspect for these reasons:

1. ND getting subbed D1 is a scum red flag for me.

Oh seriously Bozo not this shit again. Scumleaning Worcej because ND subbed out is silly, but making him your top "scumread" and listing this as one of your main reasons is downright ridiculous.

So you dont think the pattern that Bozo listed is at least some reason for suspicion?

ND has a clear pattern of flaking as scum D1 and making excuses, only to pick up later on. He displayed that here. As town he is nearly always hyper involved.

Why does this not at least entice you slightly?

Does the 2 year time gap between these two 'occurrences' not raise a red flag for you?

[aarodactyl]

I need to get back to work, but I have a quick question for everyone (except ghug). What's your opinion on Donny? I think ghug has been town reading them, and I think a few people have been scumreading him, but I don't remember who (and I'm already playing too much during work).

I regard Donny as a mild townlean. Today, I like some of the questions he is asking people, and I like him pressing Bozo for reads on the basis of his observation that scum!Bozo's reads don't evolve much.

That's makes sense to me. I have him at a complete null because I really don't know how he plays. I just feel pretty disinclined to trust town!ghug because of his reads last game and scum!ghug for obvious reasons. And I was struck by how many times he's mentioned donny so far.

[Vecna]

chaqa is scum. none of those posts pointing at bona, emc - and that abomination of the rhk kill - come from a town chaqa mindset.

[worcej]

Why are you calling it random when there was some actual reasoning behind it?

Not very good reasoning.

As far as bozo level of arguments go, i feel this is the best reasoning he's used in like 5 games.

TBF, it feels like the last few games have been intentionally designed so he cannot come up with some game breaking method to ruin the game.

[rdrivera2005]

3/4 of these reasons are based on a guy who posted 4 times on D1.

This is terrible reasoning to vote my slot on D2.

I know it's annoying to have a read over something you can't defend yourself, but this isn't a terrible reasoning. It's much better then a lot of reasoning to get wagons going, including both D1 top wagons.

This said, I personally would give you at least a day to show something to overcome this reason, but until now you didn't

I disagree because we're now on D2 - this is not a great reason for a D2 wagon.

What did you want me to show you to overcome this obvious statement of fact?

I want you to show some reasoning/questioning that screams Town.
Until now you basically defended yourself and made some valid general observations (like the one about the RB) that are totally NAI.

[ghug]

I buy his RL excuse and I'm alarmed by you and rivera dropping your suspicions of each other without much pressing or notice to both jump him.

I'd go as far to say that it was scum theater.

Hmmm. Where did bona learn this term from?

Someone coaching him in the mafia QT?

Why did you flag this from bona but not aaro?

[Jamiet99uk]

Not very good reasoning.

As far as bozo level of arguments go, i feel this is the best reasoning he's used in like 5 games.

TBF, it feels like the last few games have been intentionally designed so he cannot come up with some game breaking method to ruin the game.

I can 100% confirm that the last two setups I have run as lead-GM have had the
consideration "could Bozo or Xorxes break this setup by demanding a massclaim or similar?" as part of their design process.