M69: Trapped in the Chipotle R&D Lab [HIDDEN]

[Hamilton Brian]

OK, here is the message:

"Ghug is guilty."

I hope I did not misinterpret anything in this message.

Although, the capitalization could be of note.

I dunno, that could mean anything. Could it possibly be trying to say Jamiet is scum?

Also, question for you above.

thats... an impressive stretch in reasoning
and also dumb as heck
and dumb
and also dumb

So you're saying you don't like it I take it? What is really bad about it? ELI5, please. For the record, I thought it a stretch but I'd like to see if our thinking jives.

[snowy801]

The above statement was a joke, to be clear. Thought it was, but I guess I'm just bad at jokes.

[rdrivera2005]

What Macca did was anti town but snowy voting for someone he believes to be town is also anti town.

My action is the most pro-town decision anyone can make in a game of mafia.

You will all live to regret this moment, when the game is solved and Macca votes the obv-town to lose the game at lylo.

I agree with Snowy here. What Macca did could cost us the game if TomB is the RBer. And they could cost us the game on lylo.
And no-kill won't give us another miskill as we are at 9-4 (unless another save happens).
But I won't make a final decision before hearing about their item.

[foodcoats]

What Macca did was anti town but snowy voting for someone he believes to be town is also anti town.

My action is the most pro-town decision anyone can make in a game of mafia.

You will all live to regret this moment, when the game is solved and Macca votes the obv-town to lose the game at lylo.

I agree with Snowy here. What Macca did could cost us the game if TomB is the RBer. And they could cost us the game on lylo.
And no-kill won't give us another miskill as we are at 9-4 (unless another save happens).
But I won't make a final decision before hearing about their item.

The fact that we can save AND block kills AND 3P doesn’t contribute to scum parity seems to suggest to me we should not kill Macca if we think Macca is town. It lowers our odds.

Also the whole “claim and pass thing” is really not ideal because the nearest we have to town clears are public knowledge. I’m still really not getting why that is a good strategy especially as the pool of players narrows and items inevitably filter to scum and the 3P.

[snowy801]

There was no reason for damo to claim doc. I don't know why he did.

Only the cop claim was necessary today, but he wound up just... not having a scan. But that's not really something I can plan for.

[BobMcBob]

snowy has half a point
macca has a long(er history than me) of losing games for town at final 3
i.e. they did it once and nobody blamed them because it was tough

but then again, ive seen some pretty appalling final 5/3 play coming from a number of veterans both here and in champs
like that one time everybody blindly accepted a pr claim that was pretty clearly scum saving their own ass, and then voted off the towniest player by miles
ill leave out any examples on this site because i dont want to dredge up old arguments
the thing is, its entirely possible for anybody to get stuck in a rut and throw at kilo/milo

from the one time macca got there, they performed admirably and made a serious effort to weigh up stories, eventually landing on the wrong choice
but im not sure how many people wouldve actually been able to read that situation right
if we had the same situation but it was maccas first game, i might be inclined to agree here
but as much as you appear to look down on macca, somehow more than on everyone else, macca really isnt a unique case and anybody can and will screw up at times like those

unless theyre me
i never last that long

[snowy801]

I understand the impulse to have your friend's back, but you really aren't doing them any favors in this way.

I would like to state every time a conversation like this turns up that being bad at mafia doesn't mean anything about your intelligence, character, personality, conscientiousness, diligence, et cetera, et cetera.

I just means you're bad at mafia. Nor does it mean you're bad at reads, or metagaming, or twisty game mechanics, no.

Much as you can't play Diplomacy without understanding what support orders and convoys are, you cannot play Mafia without understanding that when four people tell you not to use your challenge, and another half the entire game is near unanimously voting someone off based on a hard claim, is not the time to go "ooh shiny let's force everyone to vote me or that one guy everyone town reads, because I thought I saw a scumslip 5 minutes into the game and ignore literally everything else."

I do not care about their past. I trust that they will do better in the future. But they cannot do good now, and thus they must go.

Really, I want to repeat myself - you do them a disservice by denying them the opportunity to own up to their mistakes. It's not a big deal, to make mistakes - it is one, to deny it.

[Vecna]

Whats happening? Why are people talking about Macca losing us the game or w/e?

[Vecna]

ah ok.....

[Vecna]

What if Macca is trying to create time for Tom B to hand over or use his powerfull toys? Ill catch up, but the first impression of that course of action can only leave me feeling that its not the type of action Macca (that is always very reasonable as town) would just wildly take.

[Vecna]

Either that or this is a scum gladiate. Macca/Snowy/TomB

Trying to create a final diversion to at least give the final scum a chance. This is zoomies-master level of conspiracy, I know

[Maniac]

##vote no kill

Macca has been obv!Town for sometime and this just has to be a town motivated move; albeit a highly questionable one.

Mafia would risk sacrificing one of their own just to delay their scum buddy’s death by a day. They know if Tom is scum he will give his items to another scum player.

I think snowy is town too so I have to vote no kill. It is the least worst option right now. Let’s just vote no kill and limit the damage.

[Maniac]

Wouldn’t*

[Maniac]

Either that or this is a scum gladiate. Macca/Snowy/TomB

Trying to create a final diversion to at least give the final scum a chance. This is zoomies-master level of conspiracy, I know

If the scum team is Macca/Snowy/Tom they absolutely deserve the win and I’ll never play this game again if Macca has fooled me so completely

[Vecna]

How can Bozo know that the napkin message came from Scum?

Probably inferrring that the mail contained a lie since ghug didn’t flip as mafia.

This implies that Bozo is certain that the gunshot that killed Ghug was fired by town, right?

Otherwise, why would the Mafia team agree to signal to Bozo that one of them had a (fake) cop scan on Ghug, and then in the same phase, shoot and kill Ghug to reveal that Ghug was not "guilty" at all.

That does not make any sense, so Bozo must be assuming that a townie shot Ghug.

@Bozo could you confirm that this is your theory?

Do we want Ghug's killer, if they are town, to reveal themself, or not?

Either Bozo shot the gun, and is just embarrased, or scum tried to frame him in some weird way. I dont see how another towny just randomly happened to shoot Ghug at the exact time.

I dont think theres any way for scum to know Bozo had a gun -and- activated it? Couldve just found out he had it, and just sending him the msg in the hopes he'd shoot it sooner or later?

3P couldve figured out Bozo had a gun, but then why not just steal it?

[Vecna]

Oh dear is it the oldest and wisest Tom Bombadil himself? Long time no see.

Good job healers (probably?)

I was roleblocked, apparently.

##vote foodcoats

good info
almost certainly the hooker rb

Scum must have some weird fascination with Ghug btw. RB him N1, do this weird shit now?

Maybe they really thought he was the 3P and wanted him dayshot this way to get rid of him?

[Vecna]

snowy shot ghug.

##VOTE snowy

Oh, now the plot thickens

[Vecna]

Wish someone would shoot you, Macca
Please go away people who actually try are talking

Not the reaction of someone that just got caught lol

[Vecna]

It could also be possible that ghug was the NK, and failing that scum double tapped him to be sure.

We have not had a save claim emerge yet, and though lfischl and Vecna have not posted yet... I suppose Vecna's a decent shot at a doc save.

Not sure if its figured out by now, but I wasnt the NK.

Also the first assumption makes no sense. No way scum set up some elaborate backup plan with a message in case their NK fails. Thats far too much magical fairy land theory.

But then again, it might somehow involve this whole Macca nonsense. Im really curious now what these next 15-20 pages have for juicy drama lol, even knowing the outcome.

[Vecna]

possibilites for napkin are:
scum, who lied about having a copscan
3p, who lied about having a copscan
town who is either a complete idiot or possessed by the spirit of brainbomb
the message was never sent and this is a strange attempt at misdirection

This last part is also something that crossed my mind, but then why would Bozo just not claim gun? Like, going through an elaborate fake message thing, but then stating someone else pulled the trigger?