M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[celaph]

Oh also, @Damo666: Two people specifically said they were moving to save Bona.

Those people were Worcej and Foodcoats.

If Bona is town do you think a Mafia player would say "I'm doing this to defend Bona"?

If Bona is scum do you think they'd have the brass neck to say that?

I don't think this precludes town!Bona with scum!Bona protectors. Though I do agree that it would be bold for scum to that obviously save Bona. I would say that I doubt that all 3 of Worcej/Food/Bona are scum from this (though ruling out groups of 3 at this stage isn't of much value).

[BesharamSabi]

Ok, so express the concern in your own words then. I can't see a valid reason to consider that interaction a scum connection, and appealing to Bona sounds like a great way to absolve yourself of blame when you're ultimately wrong.

Well I don’t really scum read you, hence why I never voted for you, for example when snowy called for it.

I did find several things fishy in Squigs, which I’ve outlined before.

^ Sabi take note. This is an actual example of someone not answering a question.

You've brought up this Bona argument twice tonight. Can you explain why you think it's still relevant?

Thank you pointing this out G hug.

So skimming through ghug v foodie, foodie v Squigs, Bona v Squigs, foodie v Squigs I'm way much confused. I feel like all of you are talking past each other and are not reading each other post carefully. There's also a lot of bad faith reading and rehashing of arguments that I thought were over.

Am I totally off base by this?

[ghug]

Well I don’t really scum read you, hence why I never voted for you, for example when snowy called for it.

I did find several things fishy in Squigs, which I’ve outlined before.

^ Sabi take note. This is an actual example of someone not answering a question.

You've brought up this Bona argument twice tonight. Can you explain why you think it's still relevant?

Thank you pointing this out G hug.

So skimming through ghug v foodie, foodie v Squigs, Bona v Squigs, foodie v Squigs I'm way much confused. I feel like all of you are talking past each other and are not reading each other post carefully. There's also a lot of bad faith reading and rehashing of arguments that I thought were over.

Am I totally off base by this?

My posts are perfect. I tend to agree with Squigs in his argument with food, but I agree with your assessment of Squigs/bona.

[BesharamSabi]

quick eod notes

- The position from ~3 hours to EOD to 1.5 hours to EOD (when snowy starts looking for a bo/ghug wagon) is really static without much actual wagon pushing or vote changing. I think this suggests that scum were either comfortable with the bona/snowy/squigs wagons, or they weren't around.
- snowy townreading basically all his competing wagons and pushing for a new one is positive signal (unless it's specifically snowy/bona, which seems less likely given bona's EOD), although I'm not sure he genuinely felt threatened by the daykill which weakens this a little

- damo's decision to start a doomed (he asked who wanted a sabi wagon before and nobody did) wagon on sabi with 25 minutes left when a wagon on bo, his earlier vote and one of the people he wanted dead in that list post, was getting started is weird. Bo flipped town so I'm not clear on what a scum motive would be though
- I thought it was interesting that celaph wasn't pushing snowy more. He says on pg69 that he doesn't like either of the main wagons, and asks Sabi (who previously scumread snowy) to reconsider their vote, but doesn't actually push for the wagon

- damo's bona vote, again over bo, is also weird and also something where I'm not sure what the motivation is
- the next big shift is after damo makes it 3-3-3, where I flip back to bona and foodcoats/worcej explicitly vote bo to defend bona (it's weird that foodcoats does so instead of voting snowy when voting snowy would put a non-bona wagon in the lead, as jamiet immediately calls out. it's also weird that worcej has the option to vote snowy and tie him in the lead, doesn't, and then says "don't forget about snowy!", but this was less subtle)
- this makes it 4-4, after which me/celaph flip to bo to tiebreak which seals the kill

tl;dr
- bona/squigs look better if mafia are active and Not Snowy, since they probably would've tried to do something earlier before EOD to protect
- snowy better, others' (celaph, food) interactions with snowy weird/bad
- damo, food sus

Snowy talking about how this was a great EOD without him actually doing much makes him look worse. I'm disappointed that this was omitted on your EOD report on snowy.

Damo behavior EOD is also weird but I might be biased because of his failed flash wagon on me so I'm not going to say much more about that.

Food I don't think is sus from switching his vote like that. Damo does look worse based off the timing.

Anyway I appreciate the analysis.

[ghug]

To answer your questions, Sabi:
food is my biggest drop.
I disagree with damo's opinion on you.
Probably snowy, bona, bozo, maybe food or celaph.

[BesharamSabi]

Damn that would be a fun scum team.

Did you pick this scum team because they said that killing me was pointless?

Damo I dunno how to explain to you but just you are so far in this game now that have any sort of scum vibes from me. Why are you tunneling in on me so much? Like you went from scum to town to scum vibes for me?can you point our incidents or post that trigger this besides vibes? I want something concrete from you.

1. Yes that is why I picked the team.

I don't understand first sentence of next para.

I dont think I'm tunnelling on you. You are being very verbose, questioning and emphasising meta change. My auto reaction to this was scum pretence but then wasn't so sure. Worcej's observation about noob PR/scum excitabilty pushed me back to my original thinking.

Are you so sure that sabi is scum that you want to guess the remaining mafia based on who's most likely to be their partner, rather than individual scumminess? Also, why single out me/bona as sabi defenders when there are so many others?

This is what I meant by damo unnecessarily tunneling in on me. He's clearly not scum reading anyone else without it being somewhat related back to me.

Also I love how he went from 4 maybe scum in his earlier post to being for sure that it's 3 scum team and somehow I'm in the team with you and Bona of all people.

Anyway damo give us better reads or build an actual wagon to convince others in scum in d2.

[BesharamSabi]

To answer your questions, Sabi:
food is my biggest drop.
I disagree with damo's opinion on you.
Probably snowy, bona, bozo, maybe food or celaph.

food is my biggest drop.

I won't try to rehash your argument with food so I won't bother asking what caused the drop in opinion on him.

Probably snowy, bona, bozo, maybe food or celaph

I do agree with Bona, bozo, snowy, and celaph need to contribute more in day 2 or else. What do either of these people have to do with to avoid being wagoned/prove they are valuable to town?

[celaph]

Anyway I guess I will make a standalone player reads post for my thoughts from day one:

Bonatogether:
Null. Like I have said before that I am unable to read Bona I mean it. He very much seems normal Bona. I have no experience with scum Bona so I can't compare the two. His anger with Squigs putting pressure on him at EOD seemed natural and justified. He did provide interesting post from Squigs that backed up his sus on them. Maybe that interaction was scum theater?

Bozotheclown:
Scumlean. Barely active and leaves weird one liners. Tried to appeal to emotion with with his claim that he was busy in day one and will be active following that seemed like a cheap act looking back at it now. He said he would be back before EOD and he wasn't. I would not mind wagoning him day 2 if he continues to be low engagement. He's a town liability if he is town.

Celaph:
Null. Barely around but like Bona could be due to school. Due to being barely around and sporadic engagement it's hard for me to get a read on them. We haven't really seen how they reacted when under pressure. Need to keep an eye on their posts. Since it's the weekend I hope they are more active. They are a town liability if they are town.

Damo666:
Scumlean. Besides his obsession on me, he's been low engagement this game. He hasn't actively scumhunted anyone. His pressure on me was laughably weak. Want him to be a lot more vocal about his reads.

Dargo:
Null. Haven't interacted with them yet. I obviously can't impose my worcej reads on them because it wouldn't be fair. They need to be a clean slate so I can view them in a better light.

DeathLlama8:
Townie. Putting in effort to make my thought process this game better so that I play better. No scum would want that. Scum would rather I walk around in circles. Besides interactions with me, his vibes with everyone else seems townie. He's putting pressure and analyzing people's post.

Foodcoats:
Townie. Least townie vibes for a townie person. His sporadic random votes are bothering me. He has a few serious analysis on players sprinkled conservatively amongst his iM sO rAnDoM shit posts. None of this I'm so random thing would make sense if he was scum because it unnecessary puts a spot light on him.

Ghug:
Null. Based off meta the real ghug shows up the longer the game goes on. I wish he was more direct and not a difficult person to analyze. I appreciate him finally showing us his player reads. Wished he would expand on them more. Waiting for game to progress more so I can get a better read on him.

Jamiet99uk:
Townie. I'm just going to say the last two games I have had the opposite reads of him than what his role actually was so take this read on him as opposite of what his role might actually be. He's just giving me townie vibes. He's putting pressure on people. He's throwing his usual meta style tantrum when ghug and snowy bait him. Hopefully this time my analysis on him is corect.

Snowy801:
Scumlean. Like I said before his aloofness and inability to expand on his thoughts is annoying and makes it hard to read him as town. He's either being the weakest town player or scum. If he doesn't start sharing his thoughts and analysis on player I don't mind wagoning him day 2 because if he's town he's a liability.

Squigs44:
Null. I read him as town earlier in the game but the way they acted in EOD is making me want to reread him and keep a closer eye on them. Not scum or town vibes. Just need more time on this one I think.

Bozo -- His behavior is certainly anti-town, but I dislike how highly he's ranking on a number of scum lists (not just yours). Killing for inactivity like this is a great way for scum to get easy miskills in. Besides his obvious lack of participation, I don't think he has been that bad.

Darg -- You can extend your worcej reads to him. Obviously, you should expect different style and tact, but they have the same alignment and so work from one can carry over to the other.

Damo -- Besides his weird push on you, I think he's been fine. Not great, just fine. I think your perception of him is hurting as you are the target of his push.

[Squigs44]

Well I don’t really scum read you, hence why I never voted for you, for example when snowy called for it.

I did find several things fishy in Squigs, which I’ve outlined before.

^ Sabi take note. This is an actual example of someone not answering a question.

You've brought up this Bona argument twice tonight. Can you explain why you think it's still relevant?

Thank you pointing this out G hug.

So skimming through ghug v foodie, foodie v Squigs, Bona v Squigs, foodie v Squigs I'm way much confused. I feel like all of you are talking past each other and are not reading each other post carefully. There's also a lot of bad faith reading and rehashing of arguments that I thought were over.

Am I totally off base by this?

No. This is what I've been saying for the past 24 hours

[ghug]

To answer your questions, Sabi:
food is my biggest drop.
I disagree with damo's opinion on you.
Probably snowy, bona, bozo, maybe food or celaph.

food is my biggest drop.

I won't try to rehash your argument with food so I won't bother asking what caused the drop in opinion on him.

Probably snowy, bona, bozo, maybe food or celaph

I do agree with Bona, bozo, snowy, and celaph need to contribute more in day 2 or else. What do either of these people have to do with to avoid being wagoned/prove they are valuable to town?

Dislike this post.

The evolution of my opinion on food is perfectly clear. Don't dismiss it like that.

I'm not going to tell those people how to demonstrate value. They have to figure that out for themselves. Work to catch the scum and you'll look like town.

[BesharamSabi]

Anyway I guess I will make a standalone player reads post for my thoughts from day one:

Bonatogether:
Null. Like I have said before that I am unable to read Bona I mean it. He very much seems normal Bona. I have no experience with scum Bona so I can't compare the two. His anger with Squigs putting pressure on him at EOD seemed natural and justified. He did provide interesting post from Squigs that backed up his sus on them. Maybe that interaction was scum theater?

Bozotheclown:
Scumlean. Barely active and leaves weird one liners. Tried to appeal to emotion with with his claim that he was busy in day one and will be active following that seemed like a cheap act looking back at it now. He said he would be back before EOD and he wasn't. I would not mind wagoning him day 2 if he continues to be low engagement. He's a town liability if he is town.

Celaph:
Null. Barely around but like Bona could be due to school. Due to being barely around and sporadic engagement it's hard for me to get a read on them. We haven't really seen how they reacted when under pressure. Need to keep an eye on their posts. Since it's the weekend I hope they are more active. They are a town liability if they are town.

Damo666:
Scumlean. Besides his obsession on me, he's been low engagement this game. He hasn't actively scumhunted anyone. His pressure on me was laughably weak. Want him to be a lot more vocal about his reads.

Dargo:
Null. Haven't interacted with them yet. I obviously can't impose my worcej reads on them because it wouldn't be fair. They need to be a clean slate so I can view them in a better light.

DeathLlama8:
Townie. Putting in effort to make my thought process this game better so that I play better. No scum would want that. Scum would rather I walk around in circles. Besides interactions with me, his vibes with everyone else seems townie. He's putting pressure and analyzing people's post.

Foodcoats:
Townie. Least townie vibes for a townie person. His sporadic random votes are bothering me. He has a few serious analysis on players sprinkled conservatively amongst his iM sO rAnDoM shit posts. None of this I'm so random thing would make sense if he was scum because it unnecessary puts a spot light on him.

Ghug:
Null. Based off meta the real ghug shows up the longer the game goes on. I wish he was more direct and not a difficult person to analyze. I appreciate him finally showing us his player reads. Wished he would expand on them more. Waiting for game to progress more so I can get a better read on him.

Jamiet99uk:
Townie. I'm just going to say the last two games I have had the opposite reads of him than what his role actually was so take this read on him as opposite of what his role might actually be. He's just giving me townie vibes. He's putting pressure on people. He's throwing his usual meta style tantrum when ghug and snowy bait him. Hopefully this time my analysis on him is corect.

Snowy801:
Scumlean. Like I said before his aloofness and inability to expand on his thoughts is annoying and makes it hard to read him as town. He's either being the weakest town player or scum. If he doesn't start sharing his thoughts and analysis on player I don't mind wagoning him day 2 because if he's town he's a liability.

Squigs44:
Null. I read him as town earlier in the game but the way they acted in EOD is making me want to reread him and keep a closer eye on them. Not scum or town vibes. Just need more time on this one I think.

Bozo -- His behavior is certainly anti-town, but I dislike how highly he's ranking on a number of scum lists (not just yours). Killing for inactivity like this is a great way for scum to get easy miskills in. Besides his obvious lack of participation, I don't think he has been that bad.

Darg -- You can extend your worcej reads to him. Obviously, you should expect different style and tact, but they have the same alignment and so work from one can carry over to the other.

Damo -- Besides his weird push on you, I think he's been fine. Not great, just fine. I think your perception of him is hurting as you are the target of his push.

you can extend your worcej reads to him

I feel like my reads on worcej were tainted and bias from my interactions with him so I rather see this role in fresh eyes if that makes sense? It'd unfair if I carry the same biased views I had and looked at dargo posts with it. Fresh eyes is better in this case, at least for my situation.

your perception of him is hurting as you are the target of his push.

But yea you're right about this. Another reason why I want to view dargo as a blank slate as well.

[ghug]

My only two strong townreads are Sabi and darg. DL, Squigs look decent but nothing unfakable. Everyone else is in since range of scum to null. Celaph is looking a little better tonight, so I don't have an obvious vote choice for tomorrow.

if i die kill kgray

[BesharamSabi]

To answer your questions, Sabi:
food is my biggest drop.
I disagree with damo's opinion on you.
Probably snowy, bona, bozo, maybe food or celaph.

food is my biggest drop.

I won't try to rehash your argument with food so I won't bother asking what caused the drop in opinion on him.

Probably snowy, bona, bozo, maybe food or celaph

I do agree with Bona, bozo, snowy, and celaph need to contribute more in day 2 or else. What do either of these people have to do with to avoid being wagoned/prove they are valuable to town?

Dislike this post.

The evolution of my opinion on food is perfectly clear. Don't dismiss it like that.

I'm not going to tell those people how to demonstrate value. They have to figure that out for themselves. Work to catch the scum and you'll look like town.

I wasn't trying to dismiss it. I didn't want to make yall rehash the same argument since the argument seems to be over.

I apologize for the miscommunication on my part for that. Was not my intention to come off as dismissive.

[snowy801]

I think it's ghug, DL and maybe bona

See you on the flip side hopefully

[celaph]

Just barely not going to be able to finish catching up before EoN:

Thoughts:
ghug's apathy feels really scummy. Be really careful with this one.
My opinion of Snowy is still trending towards scum.
Don't just kill Bozo because he is inactive.
Still liking Squigs.
Anyone who kills Sabi is stupid.
DL/Jamie probably town.

[President Eden]

NIGHT HAS ENDED, PLEASE HOLD!

[ghug]

food is my biggest drop.

I won't try to rehash your argument with food so I won't bother asking what caused the drop in opinion on him.

Probably snowy, bona, bozo, maybe food or celaph

I do agree with Bona, bozo, snowy, and celaph need to contribute more in day 2 or else. What do either of these people have to do with to avoid being wagoned/prove they are valuable to town?

Dislike this post.

The evolution of my opinion on food is perfectly clear. Don't dismiss it like that.

I'm not going to tell those people how to demonstrate value. They have to figure that out for themselves. Work to catch the scum and you'll look like town.

I wasn't trying to dismiss it. I didn't want to make yall rehash the same argument since the argument seems to be over.

I apologize for the miscommunication on my part for that. Was not my intention to come off as dismissive.

Do you not understand my argument from having read it? Why would you need to ask in the first place?

[President Eden]

foodcoats has DIED. He was TOWN.

Day has begun. You have 48 hours to vote for a target to kill. All players may resume posting in this thread.

[Bonatogether]

I accidentally deleted the tab with my vca post, can't be bothered to retype i

[Bonatogether]

foodcoats has DIED. He was TOWN.

Day has begun. You have 48 hours to vote for a target to kill. All players may resume posting in this thread.

NO