MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[ghug]

##unvote by now.

We are starting to have too many claims to believe them all.

Chaqa, you are really claiming Watcher and that you Watched Balki last night? Seriously?

The Balki thing was just a joke tbh, since he was claiming veteran

I'm also PR though, so we have five.

This aged beautifully.

[Balki Bartokomous]

When we mass claim, scum have to make a choice now before they know what buckets are optimal. It puts them to a very difficult choice. Bo says they will all claim VT. Great! Then we have three 100% clear PRs with unknown powers, that may be able to watch each other/track/doc save/share guns and generally kick ass. None of them will be mischopped. And they can vote as a block.

If Scum claim 1 or 2 PRs and the rest VTs. Great! We can consider having our PRs claim specific roles and then we may be able to narrow down to specific CC pairs. As players die and the games move forward, we may potentially wind up with a completely clear pool of either VTs or PRs.

The only good reason to wait is so that our PRs are safe tonight. But that reason is less strong in the situation we have here, where we have two people who have claimed PR and one person who has claimed VT. No, I do not know if worcej's claim is real, but scum do.

[bo_sox48]

Or scum have a hooker, worcej, assuming his claim is real, takes the RB, and another PR of the two claimed takes a shot. We narrow their NK down to a field of two instead of a field of 9, or instead of just forcing them to remove worcej assuming they know his claim to be true.

[damo666]

I still want Damo (or anyone else) refute my math where it seems we don't have any real gain on probabilities to find scum (unless Mafia are all brain dead) if we mass claim today and just expose our PRs.

9<11

Ok, this is true.
Could you elaborate a bit on how this apply to massclaim?

Let's assume you are town, then there are 11 players who could be scum. If there are 9 vt claims there are only 9 players who could be scum (8 if you are VT). Less then 9 vt claims even better.

[bo_sox48]

And we lose one PR completely and one PR in effect instead of just losing one PR assuming worcej is actually the doc.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Ahhhhhh....scum do not have day chat!

We should definitely mass claim today. 100%.

[ghug]

I think we should scumhunt, as we have been doing, more and PR hunt less. Even if we mass claim the scumteam will just be claiming VT here; they have much more room to hide among the vanilla group than the PR claimant we already know about and the softer claims that will be much more obvious when they are ready to be. Save this for D3.

I agree with this but it's also a huge dogwhistle if we do end up mass claiming.

I don’t feel like the mafia team has any reason to listen to me, but if they do then I apologize for hiding their stupidity because this one isn’t exactly hard to figure out on their own

They do if you're one of them.

[ghug]

I never really had any intention of keeping Chaqa up top, but I saw an opportunity to help worcej get his head back in the game and took it

##VOTE ghug

Explain this, please.

You were quick to jump on the "I'm glad someone else finally sees it" train when votes started coming, but there's been suspicion of me for a while and none of it had come from you.

If I throw suspicion at you I have to talk to you so I’d rather just keep it in my head until I’m confident it may matter

Convenient.

[bozotheclown]

I really think we should mass claim. I feel strongly about it. Who wants to discuss?

I agree with a mass claim in theory, because we already have had 3 PR claims, and fake claiming PRs as town in this setup is a very bad idea in my opinion.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I really think we should mass claim. I feel strongly about it. Who wants to discuss?

I agree with a mass claim in theory, because we already have had 3 PR claims, and fake claiming PRs as town in this setup is a very bad idea in my opinion.

Yay!

[damo666]

Ahhhhhh....scum do not have day chat!

We should definitely mass claim today. 100%.

Well done.

[ghug]

Three clear PRs with 12 people left does not do us any good. The game will continue past the point where they are all dead, and then will get fewer total uses of their powers.

This is why, in typical mafia games, the entire fucking town doesn't claim on day two under what is often no pressure.

Thank you for watching my TED talk.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Three clear PRs with 12 people left does not do us any good. The game will continue past the point where they are all dead, and then will get fewer total uses of their powers.

This is why, in typical mafia games, the entire fucking town doesn't claim on day two under what is often no pressure.

Thank you for watching my TED talk.

We already have 2 PR claimers.

Don't you agree that scum likely have enough information to kill a PR tonight?

Let's make them choose buckets now.

[lfischl]

People who have agreed to be here and claim their role at exactly 10:00 am PT
1. Balki
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.

I couldn't do this time, I would be able to do 1 PST if we do end up mass claiming.

[Chaqa]

The scumteam should already know who they’re killing tonight and claiming or not claiming really doesn’t change that.

Operating as a town with more information would make a mass claim unquestionably worthwhile regardless of what the scumteam gains or loses, but I just don’t see how we get that, and do on the other hand see how we still could be hiding a PR.

It always makes ne nervous when I find myself agreeing with bo.

[ghug]

Three clear PRs with 12 people left does not do us any good. The game will continue past the point where they are all dead, and then will get fewer total uses of their powers.

This is why, in typical mafia games, the entire fucking town doesn't claim on day two under what is often no pressure.

Thank you for watching my TED talk.

We already have 2 PR claimers.

Don't you agree that scum likely have enough information to kill a PR tonight?

Let's make them choose buckets now.

Two is less than three.

[Chaqa]

The scumteam should already know who they’re killing tonight and claiming or not claiming really doesn’t change that.

Operating as a town with more information would make a mass claim unquestionably worthwhile regardless of what the scumteam gains or loses, but I just don’t see how we get that, and do on the other hand see how we still could be hiding a PR.

Because the scum team has to choose which buckets to claim in.

If they all claim to be VTs, then we have three clear PRs. Not too bad. If one scum claims PR and two claim VTs, then we can start to put teams together, and we may have mechanical ways to root out the fake. I don't know exactly what we're going to be able to do, but the point here is that we force scum to take a position before they really know the best way to claim in order to survive a long time.

Scum will just always claim VT, then they know who the PRs they need to kill are and the best order to do it with.

[Chaqa]

People who have agreed to be here and claim their role at exactly 10:00 am PT
1. Balki
2. Damo VT
3. Worcej Doc
4. Chaqa PR
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.

Don't include me in this mess, I will offer no new information until I see fit.

[bo_sox48]

Explain this, please.

You were quick to jump on the "I'm glad someone else finally sees it" train when votes started coming, but there's been suspicion of me for a while and none of it had come from you.

If I throw suspicion at you I have to talk to you so I’d rather just keep it in my head until I’m confident it may matter

Convenient.

If you were less of an uncompromising asshole toward me in everything you do maybe I’d actually be up to playing the game with you instead of doing all I can to ignore your existence for my own sanity’s sake. But rather than looking in the mirror and and acknowleding that maybe, just maybe, you’re the one who chooses to make other people feel the way that they do about you, you continue to be the way that you are. I sincerely wish nothing but the best for you, but toward me you are an unabated piece of shit and it blows my mind that you haven’t considered that I actually go far out of my way to avoid any interaction with you.

See yall tomorrow.

[Balki Bartokomous]

The scumteam should already know who they’re killing tonight and claiming or not claiming really doesn’t change that.

Operating as a town with more information would make a mass claim unquestionably worthwhile regardless of what the scumteam gains or loses, but I just don’t see how we get that, and do on the other hand see how we still could be hiding a PR.

Because the scum team has to choose which buckets to claim in.

If they all claim to be VTs, then we have three clear PRs. Not too bad. If one scum claims PR and two claim VTs, then we can start to put teams together, and we may have mechanical ways to root out the fake. I don't know exactly what we're going to be able to do, but the point here is that we force scum to take a position before they really know the best way to claim in order to survive a long time.

Scum will just always claim VT, then they know who the PRs they need to kill are and the best order to do it with.

Great! Then we have three clears and we know if any of the scum are caught visiting anyone, they are toast.