Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

[damian]

The fuck? Balki was already on Fox before Ghug made that vote.

I’ve also been scum reading fox all day. Literally said he was my second choice.

Innacurate and Paranoia

[xorxes]

Sorry I phrased poorly.

Foxcastle wagon gav me a e terrible feel.

Felt like balki and Damian hopped on too fast after the townclear lead the way.

As I said, probably paranoia.

Wasn't Balki there before ghug?

[damian]

I moved to my second choice because it seemed nobody was willing to join me on Ezio. Then Ezio said even more scummy things and it looked like people were starring to be convinced so I moved back hoping the wagon would start

[ghug]

I think it's Foxy, Damian, and Balki or xorxes.

[Ezio]

Hey guys look at balki and bozos interactions. Again, don't have fucking timr. I should have done this yesterday.

Does that look like scum teammates to you guys? If it does, we're home and you can all trust xorxes for yourselves.

If you're convinced balki is town, and he actually is, xorxes probably found his tell and faked it this game which fooled me. No way town xorxes is wrong these three days.

[bozotheclown]

Sorry I phrased poorly.

Foxcastle wagon gav me a e terrible feel.

Felt like balki and Damian hopped on too fast after the townclear lead the way.

As I said, probably paranoia.

Balki was voting for Foxcastle long before ghug.

[Ezio]

Sorry I phrased poorly.

Foxcastle wagon gav me a e terrible feel.

Felt like balki and Damian hopped on too fast after the townclear lead the way.

As I said, probably paranoia.

Wasn't Balki there before ghug?

Really? Ugh. Ghug even thinks I'm wrong about bozo.

[Balki Bartokomous]

...continuing from this post.

Slightly Scummy

Argument 3(Foxcastle):
Balki’s scum meta is to make a lot of noise, but not to solve and not to make cases that he can later be judged on when he is proven wrong.

This is another argument that just looks illogical to me. Fox has tried to conjure up a "Scum!Balki meta that does not exist. Superficially, it is true that I can be aggressive, loud, and confrontational as scum. But I do those things as town too. He is pointing to things that I do as scum and saying, well this looks like that too, without considering at all if these are also things I do as town (Hint: they are!)

Foxy tries to distinguish my town play by saying that, as town, I use all my aggressive action to solve the game and find scum, whereas here I haven't done that. I just...I don't know how he is reaching that conclusion. It feels wrong. It feels forced. I am very much trying to solve. And I think I may actually be correct. Like, I feel decently confident that the 3-member scum team is within Fox/rdrivera/Ezio/Bozo. Xorx is like the one wildcard that I keep changing my mind on, but I am still clutching to my "lost-towny" instinct there.

Now, the argument trying to distinguish a Scum!Balki meta and link to it here is not necessarily the kind of thing that scum would come up with. It could come from either alignment. But I find it more suspect here because Foxy never raised it during the parts of the game where I really could have been correctly accused of not trying to solve much (Day 1 and Day 2). Fox called me null at that time. But then Day 3 rolls around, there are some suggestions in thread by Vecna and Damian that they may be willing to lynch Balki, and so Fox jumps aboard that push. It doesn't make sense to me, considering that I have been aggressively solving for basically all of Day 3. Fox was engaged in the game D1 and D2, so it seems weird to me that he only accuses me of not trying to solve in the middle of D3, after that was no longer the case.

Still, this argument is slightly less scummy than the two I put above it, as it leaves the person pushing it with no place to go tomorrow. If Fox is scum, and I flip today, he will just have to say "Ooops, guess I was wrong. Sorry guys." Doesn't leave him much cover or a place to go next, and so it could be coming from town.

Argument 4 (Xorxes): Balki and Vecna are trying to setup rdrivera if he’s town, or trying to clear rdrivera if one of them flips.
This is an argument that jumped out to me as scummy because it is just way beneath my image of Xorxes. It basically starts with the conclusion that Balki is scum, and it explains how an rdrivera flip either way will help confirm that idea. This is scum-indicative because it lays foundation for a lynch tomorrow. If rdrivera flips town or scum, it suggests that we should lynch Balki.

On the other hand, I don't really think this is something driving Xerxes's thinking, I just think it's something scummy that he said. So, I find the comment suspect, but I'm not going to put too much weight on it. It may actually be a clue that confirmation bias is clouding Xorx's thinking, which is town-indicative. I think Xorx would be too smart to write this as town, but he also seems too smart to write it as scum, so maybe it is actually town-indicative coming from him, because it is just easier to be confused when you are town.

Towny

Argument 5 (Xorxes): Balki's town read of Damian just because Damian had a bunch of town reads on Day 1 that turned out to be correct/color howitzer seems scummy.

I think this is the Xorxes rationale that has convinced him, and I think he has basically said that too. He read my Damian townread, and found it inauthentic.

I can grok that. The way I try to sort alignments is fairly unique, and I can see someone thinking that I am a bit too liberal with my townreads. So, this argument from Xorx feels more logical. It also leaves him no place to go after I flip other than to say "sorry, by bad." And this is something that Xorxes said fairly early and abruptly in a way that actually picked a fight with me to some degree. Seems like a townish push on me.

Argument 6 (Damian): Balki's reread seems more focused on finding town reads than on finding scum reads.

This one is similar to the Xorx push. It was also early on, at a time when I was not under much pressure and I was in the thread to fight with Damian about it, if I recall right. This has all the characteristics of a town push on me.

And to make it even more conclusive, Damian did not play in the last Webdip game, and is less likely to know that I typically perceive early pushes to lynch me as coming from town. I've got Damian as pretty solidly town.

[damian]

Feels like you’re trying to force your reads onto the situation.
Rather than reading the situation and developing reads Ezio.
It’s so scummy

[Ezio]

Feels like you’re trying to force your reads onto the situation.
Rather than reading the situation and developing reads Ezio.
It’s so scummy

Alternatively balkis vote was the first vote of today and was about 48 hours ago and I fucking forgot about it and didn't notice the vote until after ghug voted.

Then I reacted to the situation and was worried about it, when you the called me out for my reaction.

???

[Ezio]

Fuck I gotta get back to work. I'll find time to check wagons before the close.

[damian]

I’ve got no idea what you’re trying to say there Ezio. Anyone else understand what he’s saying?

Good luck at work.

[ghug]

Feels like you’re trying to force your reads onto the situation.
Rather than reading the situation and developing reads Ezio.
It’s so scummy

This makes so much more sense from town perspective than scum.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I'd like to put rdrivera back into the ring here for a second.

He seems to have gotten a lot of credit for a defeatist, woe-is-me attitude after I was putting a lot of pressure on him during my re-read. I can understand that y'all saw some emotion there, and it reminded you of some times when rdrivera has been mislynched as town.

Still, I did not find that part to be much of a readable moment. It seemed to me very NAI -- the kind of thing that could be easily faked. I wouldn't call it particularly scummy, but it wasn't a clear indication that rdrivera is town at all.

When rdrivera is town, I usually agree with him, and I find him to be pretty helpful and to put in a fair amount of effort. I just have not seen that in this game. It could be that he has other things going on, but I would expect to see Town!rdrivera try harder, and react to some suspicion from me by trying harder to solve the game. Instead, he has disappeared. It feels reminiscent to me of his scum game in the most recent game here.

Now, he may have had a great excuse for being away, and now I am being a hypocrite for ignoring it, I don't remember. But if I am lynched today, please don't forget about rdrivera. Just looking at who I think is scum (two of Ezio/Bozo/Fox), the Day 2 vote makes a ton of sense if rdrivera is the third member of the team.

[damian]

The fuck Ghug?

I feel like I’m watching Ezio continously do scummy shit. And you keep showing up and town reading him for it, with zero explanation. I’m baffled. How the fuck are you our cleared townie.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I have been thinking pretty hard about changing my vote from Foxy to Bozo, based on a lot of the things I observed while doing my #ghugtask. Here is the one thing I'm struggling with there: when Bozo is town, I have often read him as scummy and generally hard to understand. When he was scum in the most recent game, he seemed clearheaded and smart.

I see a lot more of the incomprehensible towny in this game, which gives me some pause.

That said, he is generally passive and seems to be trying to stay out of the spotlight, which is scum indicative. I want to say scum, but I don't really trust my read there like I trust my read on Foxy.

[xorxes]

I'd like to put rdrivera back into the ring here for a second.

He seems to have gotten a lot of credit for a defeatist, woe-is-me attitude after I was putting a lot of pressure on him during my re-read. I can understand that y'all saw some emotion there, and it reminded you of some times when rdrivera has been mislynched as town.

I give him zero credit for that, but he's one of the people I have the hardest time reading.

[Balki Bartokomous]

The fuck Ghug?

I feel like I’m watching Ezio continously do scummy shit. And you keep showing up and town reading him for it, with zero explanation. I’m baffled.

This has crossed my mind too, frankly.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I'd like to put rdrivera back into the ring here for a second.

He seems to have gotten a lot of credit for a defeatist, woe-is-me attitude after I was putting a lot of pressure on him during my re-read. I can understand that y'all saw some emotion there, and it reminded you of some times when rdrivera has been mislynched as town.

I give him zero credit for that, but he's one of the people I have the hardest time reading.

^ towny post.

[ghug]

The fuck Ghug?

I feel like I’m watching Ezio continously do scummy shit. And you keep showing up and town reading him for it, with zero explanation. I’m baffled. How the fuck are you our cleared townie.

It's bad shit, not scummy shit. There's a meaningful difference. There's no advantage for scum to do these things, whereas I can imagine them coming out of a town mindset.