I don't think town will win without lynching both of them because I don't see any resolution of this question where they are not both scum. Nothing else makes sense other than darg being stupid enough to counterclaim when no clearing or incriminating information has been presented, and darg is not that stupid. Pretty simple. I know you're trying to lead into "omg scumslip" territory but you do not need to explain to me that "it will never be 100% clear until the end of the game."foodcoats wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:07 pmI'm also of the opinion that lynching both EP and darg is the correct play, because the coordination of the claims was bananas and I don't understand why scum would claim-counterclaim otherwise.bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:49 pmThere isn't one. I just want to hear what people think because I don't see any end in which town wins if don't lynch both of them.Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:40 pm@Bo_Sox:
I have read your long post now, and your thinking seems pretty compelling to me, I think you present a good case. I could buy Espresso and Darg both being scum.
I don't see any specific question in that post that you're looking for me to answer, though?
I have read through the argument about the DP and why the smokescreen may have made it difficult to fake claim it, but I think that scum could just have done something like claim DP and claim they didn't actually fire their ability for fear of hitting town, but they didn't want to draw attention during the smokescreening by explaining that.
But why I actually clipped this quote was: why do you think town can't win without lynching both? That's very interesting. Because town most certainly technically can. If whoever we lynch flips scum, we could decide to not lynch the other one. It will never be 100% clear until the end of the game, but it is possible that someone else is scummier and it is a better play to lynch that other person than the leftover of darg/EP, especially based on what we learn or can glean from the thread if the first lynch is confirmed scum. One of EP or darg can most certainly be town. So why do you think "[there is no] end in which town wins if don't lynch both of them"?
Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
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Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
Why would scum want to soft Watcher, which we know was not one of their fakeclaims?worcej wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:37 pmAlso, FWIW, I also think Jamie's oracle claim can just as easily be turned into a tracker claim with the shell suits. Fuck, you could even see a watcher claim inside that list if you wanted to try really hard (Walker) to spin it.
Just saying, not the most definitive softing from Jamie.
What is your current read of bo_sox? Did you do anything with his "oh shit" response to your reaction test?
(BTW, I tried to find the "oh shit" post using the bot by searching for user worcej and word shit, but that didn't help that much to narrow down the search )
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
What are your thoughts now that it has been pointed out that worcej has been softing Oracle? Do you buy his explanation that he was trying to draw the NK with that soft?
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Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
I disagree, I think a D1 no lynch for a town clear is a good trade. It certainly would be helpful if you were clear, and not clearing yourself when you had the chance looks suspicious to me.bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:21 pmAre you reading what I said? Quit asking dumb questions. I am not trying to hurt town by clearing myself. Between the potential of getting scum and the information we gain, lynches are more important to the town than clearing me. I don't even know why I'm explaining this to you.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:08 pmAfter the vig shot, did you consider asking to be lynched to clear yourself? You said you could have crumbed harder, what were you crumbing?
My crumb was straight to rdrivera. Did you miss that too?
That doesn't sound like me saying bulletproof to me.
Were you crumbing a more important role so that rdrivera would not shoot you?
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
I assume this is meant as some kind of joke, but in case not, read the whole post, in particular the text from brainbomb that I was replying to.Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:59 pmLook, here is Xorxes setting up a Vig claim.xorxes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:58 pmHe could still ask for a TLDR here as well. The stronger bullet point is that the claim makes no sense at the point it came, but since he is new it's hard to tell. We need to hear more about it before deciding. And we need to hear more from him about anything else even if he chooses not to talk about this any more for now.
And in any case, why would any sane scum crumb a role that they did not have as part of their fakeclaims, especially a role that would have to be hard-proven?
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
I am not one for big explanations. I guess I go for darg because he claimed second, the response felt rushed (if I had been tracker I would have had something more detailed prepared and ready to go) and his crumbs felt forced.xorxes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:50 amWhy? If you're town, we need to see your reasoning. Otherwise, if darg flips town you will look scummy and may cost us the game, and if he flips scum we won't be able to tell if you voted for him for good towny reasons or just because everyone else was voting for him and so you didn't have much choice.
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
I would agree with that. I just threw it in for completeness.
It appears that none of the VTs thought of crumbing their animals, perhaps because they didn't realize that this is not like a usual game where crumbing VT is pretty silly. I would understand if scum only bothered to crumb for their PR fakes as well, and not for any VT fake they might have had.
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Re: Jamiet99uk is town
Were you crumbing Tortoise then?Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:16 pm"Shell suit" is a pretty weak / shitty tracker crumb, though. I was not crumbing tracker.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:16 pmYou pointed to this post as your crumb. If both trackers turn out to be scum, we will know tracker was one of the scum roles, keeping open the possibility you were crumbing all of the scum fake roles.Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:52 pm
This is a nice red herring you've invented for yourselves, but I'm afraid it's a waste of your time.
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
Yes, the best way is to provide reads (with arguments behind them). Dargo has produced none (other than the obvious one of reading you as scum), you have provided some useful stuff with the smokescreen general analysis but very little in terms of actual reads of people.EspressoPatronum wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:59 pmI'm not entirely sure how I escape this SvS narrative, so the best I can do is hope for a change of circumstances to add credence to my claim.
Barring that, I'll keep you guys informed of my reads.
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
I was going to ask about that too. Which roles did you crumb?bozotheclown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:08 pmAfter the vig shot, did you consider asking to be lynched to clear yourself? You said you could have crumbed harder, what were you crumbing?bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 6:24 pm
Beyond that, I do not think that clearing me on D1 is the best use of the vigilante's gun over trying to get a good scumread that probably wouldn't get lynched. I gave this some thought early on but came to the conclusion that I'm not that important and wasting the vigilante's shot was a bad strategy. That is especially so when I could have been a nightkill target and cleared myself that way instead, and given that they went for Vecna instead of a clear I obviously could have been if I had crumbed harder than I did or perhaps even not been duped by the real vigilante's poor play. Worth the risk to me, by far.
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Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
I think that the only way this will end will be in lynching both of them, whether they're TvS or SvS.
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
Unless he is scum with one of them.foodcoats wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:18 pmIf worcej and bo_sox refused to participate and then claimed DP, do you really think they would have been believed? I strongly believe you would have led a crusade against them for not playing the smokescreen minigame and then claiming.EspressoPatronum wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:36 pm
Worcej and bo_sox refused to participate. If they were maf, they would have been the obvious choices to take the DP claim later in the game. Town cred to them.
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
That will depend on what you bring us tomorrow if you're still with us.Percy Williams wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:05 pmI think that the only way this will end will be in lynching both of them, whether they're TvS or SvS.
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Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
It doesn't strike me as 100% convincing. However, once again, why would scum worcej softclaim a role that wasn't on the scum's fakeclaim list?xorxes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:41 pmWhat are your thoughts now that it has been pointed out that worcej has been softing Oracle? Do you buy his explanation that he was trying to draw the NK with that soft?
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Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
It was partly a joke and partly a response to your scepticism towards my actual breadcrumbing of the oracle. Yes, you can find words in almost anyone's posts which you can present as fake crumbs. That doesn't mean that the player in question actually intended them as crumbs. See?xorxes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:45 pmI assume this is meant as some kind of joke, but in case not, read the whole post, in particular the text from brainbomb that I was replying to.Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:59 pmLook, here is Xorxes setting up a Vig claim.xorxes wrote: ↑Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:58 pmHe could still ask for a TLDR here as well. The stronger bullet point is that the claim makes no sense at the point it came, but since he is new it's hard to tell. We need to hear more about it before deciding. And we need to hear more from him about anything else even if he chooses not to talk about this any more for now.
And in any case, why would any sane scum crumb a role that they did not have as part of their fakeclaims, especially a role that would have to be hard-proven?
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Re: Jamiet99uk is town
No. Iwas crumbing Oracle, with my Ceefax reference. I thought it was quite clever actually.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:54 pmWere you crumbing Tortoise then?Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:16 pm"Shell suit" is a pretty weak / shitty tracker crumb, though. I was not crumbing tracker.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:16 pm
You pointed to this post as your crumb. If both trackers turn out to be scum, we will know tracker was one of the scum roles, keeping open the possibility you were crumbing all of the scum fake roles.
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
Why would town!worcej softclaim Oracle though? You usually hate it when people lie. Why are you so forgiving with him, especially as it involves your own role?Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:14 pmIt doesn't strike me as 100% convincing. However, once again, why would scum worcej softclaim a role that wasn't on the scum's fakeclaim list?
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
Yes, I like my 4 letter words... lol...xorxes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:39 pmWhy would scum want to soft Watcher, which we know was not one of their fakeclaims?worcej wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:37 pmAlso, FWIW, I also think Jamie's oracle claim can just as easily be turned into a tracker claim with the shell suits. Fuck, you could even see a watcher claim inside that list if you wanted to try really hard (Walker) to spin it.
Just saying, not the most definitive softing from Jamie.
What is your current read of bo_sox? Did you do anything with his "oh shit" response to your reaction test?
(BTW, I tried to find the "oh shit" post using the bot by searching for user worcej and word shit, but that didn't help that much to narrow down the search )
Why would scum counter-claim the tracker? I respect Jamie enough as a player to think he might try to plant flags to do the exact same thing darg/EP did currently. I am not trying to quantify the effectiveness of his crumbs, only stating you could look at his list and see the opportunity to say he was claiming something else. And because of this, I look at Jamie's crumb of the oracle position as a little sketchy.
Why are you curious about my read of Bo? My focus is on the current problems facing the town, which are all verifiable and solvable, and are in this order:
- Getting Darg/EP right.
- Verifying Percy's role.
- Verifying your (xorxes) role.
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
I don't have any doubts that you were actually crumbing Oracle. That is completely believable. That doesn't prove you're town though, it only proves that you either are the town Oracle or that the Oracle was one of the roles that scum had for faking.Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:16 pmIt was partly a joke and partly a response to your scepticism towards my actual breadcrumbing of the oracle. Yes, you can find words in almost anyone's posts which you can present as fake crumbs. That doesn't mean that the player in question actually intended them as crumbs. See?xorxes wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:45 pmI assume this is meant as some kind of joke, but in case not, read the whole post, in particular the text from brainbomb that I was replying to.
And in any case, why would any sane scum crumb a role that they did not have as part of their fakeclaims, especially a role that would have to be hard-proven?
Similarly with my claim. It doesn't prove I'm Innocent Child. It only proves that either I am the town's Innocent Child, or that the role was part of the fakelist. If someone else had crumbed Innocent Child, especially someone suspected of being scum, then that would make me more suspect too.
Re: Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]
You believe one of them is town?
Because you indicated he fell into your reaction test trap. I was wondering what you took out of that.Why are you curious about my read of Bo?
Verifying my role is trivial, it's just a matter of waiting. No use spending more than two seconds thinking about that.My focus is on the current problems facing the town, which are all verifiable and solvable, and are in this order:I already pretty much summed up how the next few days and nights should play out. Sticking to that script would ensure we are not at mylo unless we miss on EP/Darg, which is where our focus should be atm.
- Getting Darg/EP right.
- Verifying Percy's role.
- Verifying your (xorxes) role.
Verifying Percy's role might be tricky but it's something that we can do much more effectively tomorrow: either Mafia solves it for us and we don't need to do anything, or else we will have a lot more information to decide (his choice of scan and its result). No use spending much time thinking about that now.
Getting Darg/EP right is important. My thinking is that we will get it right no matter what, but if you think otherwise then examining who they might be partnered with is very important to decide which one is the scum, don't you agree?
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