Mafia 47 - The Sixth Mass Extinction - GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[xorxes]

Final DP smokescreen results. Return to this if town!DP dies without a reveal.

EspressoPatronum (complete) [damo]
bozo (complete) [chaqa]
Vapor (complete) [foodcoats]
foodcoats (complete) [damo]
flash (complete) [bo_sox]
bo_sox (refused)
Jamie (complete) [Jamie]
worcej (refused)
dargorygel (complete) [Brain]
damo (complete) [Bozo]

@Espresso: you argue that scum were forced to counterclaim someone because none of them were able to claim DP, and so they were one fakerole short.

I think that's a reasonable argument, and it applies whether the other Tracker claimant is town or scum, in both cases they decided that the counterclaim gambit was preferrable to claiming DP. Claiming Absorber would have been relatively harmless as far as I can tell.

So, the people unable to claim DP were:

bo_sox (refused)
worcej (refused)

It's hard to believe that the real DP wouldn't have used this opportunity to reveal their target.

dargorygel (complete) [Brain]

Brain had already proven that he was not the target, so dargo here was essentially saying "I am not the DP". You have to admit that this would clear dargo if your hypothesis is true and if we believe that dargo understood what was going on. It is not clear that dargo understood the consequences though.

EspressoPatronum (complete) [damo]
foodcoats (complete) [damo]

Damo never said anything that I noticed about having lost his power, so these two were also very unlikely to get away with a DP claim. The fact that they made it would suggest they were not planning to claim DP, or did not realize what their claim entailed.

Jamie (complete) [Jamie]

If Jamie was planning to claim DP, he may have changed his mind after we said his choice was idiotic.

flash (complete) [bo_sox]

flash was unable to claim DP if bo_sox is town (unless there's something bo_sox hasn't told us). But they could not have known this at the time that the counterclaims were made. So it seems that flash was at least potentially a candidate to claim DP. This makes flash look good.

bozo (complete) [chaqa]

Now that we know that Chaqa is scum, we know that if bozo was scum he would have been free to claim DP. This makes bozo look good.

In conclusion:

flash and bozo get townie points based on this explanation for the cc.

bo_sox, worcej, Espresso, foodcoats, dargo and Jamie get either townie points, or idiot-scum points for backing themselves against a wall. Is that what you were saying before?

The fact that you brought this up yourself would suggest you had thought about it and so you would have not made the claim you made, or you may be double-bluffing.

So for this theory to be possible, Espresso or foodcoats would have to be locked into claiming DP, so it would support Percy's claim being fake.

Sorry, how does this relate to Percy?

[Foxcastle]

Unlikely to be around in the next 3.5 hours, so in case I die (though I think it'll be Tom): lynch Dargo tomorrow. Then probably lynch Espresso either way.

Percy and Worcej are scum. Lynch them.

In the event that Espresso is town, put flash to the question.

Foodcoats or Jamiet are my outside chances.

[xorxes]

flash (complete) [bo_sox]

flash was unable to claim DP if bo_sox is town (unless there's something bo_sox hasn't told us). But they could not have known this at the time that the counterclaims were made. So it seems that flash was at least potentially a candidate to claim DP. This makes flash look good.

bozo (complete) [chaqa]

Now that we know that Chaqa is scum, we know that if bozo was scum he would have been free to claim DP. This makes bozo look good.

In conclusion:

flash and bozo get townie points based on this explanation for the cc.

Actually, flash looks reasonably good only if bo_sox is town.

If bo_sox is scum they might have pulled off a Bulletproof-DP combo in which they confirmed each other's claims, but if we suspected foul play they were both caught, which was a risk. So I would say town!bo -> town!flash, but no more than that.

[xorxes]

With bo_sox claiming bulletproof, the obvious play D1 as bulletproof would be to tell rdrivera to shoot him, clearing them both without risking a town getting shot. That was the only chance for the bulletproof to utilize his role.

It wouldn't have cleared them both, but it would have tied their claims together, Both town or both scum.

[xorxes]

With bo_sox claiming bulletproof, the obvious play D1 as bulletproof would be to tell rdrivera to shoot him, clearing them both without risking a town getting shot. That was the only chance for the bulletproof to utilize his role.

It wouldn't have cleared them both, but it would have tied their claims together, Both town or both scum.

Unless the GM announced that a shot had been made but noone died.

[bozotheclown]

bozo, do you know the answer to this question?

no

Were you not curious, given that you had chosen Chaqa as your DP target and Chaqa claimed a non-VT role?

No, because I was not DP. Were you curious enough to find out the answer?

[bozotheclown]

With bo_sox claiming bulletproof, the obvious play D1 as bulletproof would be to tell rdrivera to shoot him, clearing them both without risking a town getting shot. That was the only chance for the bulletproof to utilize his role.

It wouldn't have cleared them both, but it would have tied their claims together, Both town or both scum.

Are you sure? I would expect a GM announcement of the shot even if the bulletproof lives.

[bozotheclown]

With bo_sox claiming bulletproof, the obvious play D1 as bulletproof would be to tell rdrivera to shoot him, clearing them both without risking a town getting shot. That was the only chance for the bulletproof to utilize his role.

It wouldn't have cleared them both, but it would have tied their claims together, Both town or both scum.

Unless the GM announced that a shot had been made but noone died.

Sorry, I had not read this yet.

[bozotheclown]

@Espresso: you argue that scum were forced to counterclaim someone because none of them were able to claim DP, and so they were one fakerole short.

I think that's a reasonable argument, and it applies whether the other Tracker claimant is town or scum, in both cases they decided that the counterclaim gambit was preferrable to claiming DP. Claiming Absorber would have been relatively harmless as far as I can tell.

So, the people unable to claim DP were:

bo_sox (refused)
worcej (refused)

It's hard to believe that the real DP wouldn't have used this opportunity to reveal their target.

dargorygel (complete) [Brain]

Brain had already proven that he was not the target, so dargo here was essentially saying "I am not the DP". You have to admit that this would clear dargo if your hypothesis is true and if we believe that dargo understood what was going on. It is not clear that dargo understood the consequences though.

EspressoPatronum (complete) [damo]
foodcoats (complete) [damo]

Damo never said anything that I noticed about having lost his power, so these two were also very unlikely to get away with a DP claim. The fact that they made it would suggest they were not planning to claim DP, or did not realize what their claim entailed.

Jamie (complete) [Jamie]

If Jamie was planning to claim DP, he may have changed his mind after we said his choice was idiotic.

flash (complete) [bo_sox]

flash was unable to claim DP if bo_sox is town (unless there's something bo_sox hasn't told us). But they could not have known this at the time that the counterclaims were made. So it seems that flash was at least potentially a candidate to claim DP. This makes flash look good.

bozo (complete) [chaqa]

Now that we know that Chaqa is scum, we know that if bozo was scum he would have been free to claim DP. This makes bozo look good.

In conclusion:

flash and bozo get townie points based on this explanation for the cc.

bo_sox, worcej, Espresso, foodcoats, dargo and Jamie get either townie points, or idiot-scum points for backing themselves against a wall. Is that what you were saying before?

The fact that you brought this up yourself would suggest you had thought about it and so you would have not made the claim you made, or you may be double-bluffing.

So for this theory to be possible, Espresso or foodcoats would have to be locked into claiming DP, so it would support Percy's claim being fake.

Sorry, how does this relate to Percy?

For this theory to be correct, all of the scum would have to be unable to claim DP. We know Chaqa could not claim DP, so one possibility is Percy, you, Espresso, and foodcoats are scum. Another possibility is Percy, you, Espresso, and bo_sox are scum, and stuck with BP and DP to claim. There are probably other possibilities, but most of them likely include Percy.

[xorxes]

no

Were you not curious, given that you had chosen Chaqa as your DP target and Chaqa claimed a non-VT role?

No, because I was not DP. Were you curious enough to find out the answer?

Not at the time, because I was townreading Chaqa, but by asking in the thread I was hoping someone would find out. I am curious enough now that I have PMd the GMs.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Bozotheclown
@Xorxes

Doesn't your keyboard have a "backspace" button?
Quoting a whole page of text and then adding a one sentence comment or question is REALLY annoying and it fills the thread with redundant crap.

[Jamiet99uk]

If the Lover's target dies, the Lover dies. There are no qualifiers to that, surely?

[xorxes]

So for this theory to be possible, Espresso or foodcoats would have to be locked into claiming DP, so it would support Percy's claim being fake.

Sorry, how does this relate to Percy?

For this theory to be correct, all of the scum would have to be unable to claim DP. We know Chaqa could not claim DP, so one possibility is Percy, you, Espresso, and foodcoats are scum. Another possibility is Percy, you, Espresso, and bo_sox are scum, and stuck with BP and DP to claim. There are probably other possibilities, but most of them likely include Percy.

It seems that you were the only one able to claim DP (depending on what I hear from the GMs), and maybe flash, contingent on bo's alignment, so I don't see how this tells you anything about Percy in particular.

[xorxes]

@Bozotheclown
@Xorxes

Doesn't your keyboard have a "backspace" button?
Quoting a whole page of text and then adding a one sentence comment or question is REALLY annoying and it fills the thread with redundant crap.

I try too cut out as much as possible but leaving enough context, unless I'm on my phone when doing any editing is too much of a pain.

[xorxes]

If the Lover's target dies, the Lover dies. There are no qualifiers to that, surely?

Even if the Divine Presence took the Lover's power tree away? I would expect so, because the Lover chose before the DP, but I don't know for sure.

And I don't know if the Lover is told that the Divine Presence visited them. That's something bozo should have been interested in knowing.

[xorxes]

It seems that you were the only one able to claim DP (depending on what I hear from the GMs), and maybe flash, contingent on bo's alignment, so I don't see how this tells you anything about Percy in particular.

Actually, I'll take that back. If you had claimed DP and Chaqa was lynched and killed someone with his cow power, you would have been exposed. So you were not able to claim DP either.

And now I wonder how Espresso knew this before Chaqa's flip.

[bozotheclown]

@Bozotheclown
@Xorxes

Doesn't your keyboard have a "backspace" button?
Quoting a whole page of text and then adding a one sentence comment or question is REALLY annoying and it fills the thread with redundant crap.

I like to show what I am responding to, and I do not like edit other quotes so no one thinks I am taking what they say out of context.

[bozotheclown]

If the Lover's target dies, the Lover dies. There are no qualifiers to that, surely?

Even if the Divine Presence took the Lover's power tree away? I would expect so, because the Lover chose before the DP, but I don't know for sure.

And I don't know if the Lover is told that the Divine Presence visited them. That's something bozo should have been interested in knowing.

Why would I be interesting in knowing that when I was not the DP? No one else claimed they would DP Chaqa, so it was irrelevant.

[xorxes]

If the Lover's target dies, the Lover dies. There are no qualifiers to that, surely?

Even if the Divine Presence took the Lover's power tree away? I would expect so, because the Lover chose before the DP, but I don't know for sure.

And I don't know if the Lover is told that the Divine Presence visited them. That's something bozo should have been interested in knowing.

Why would I be interesting in knowing that when I was not the DP? No one else claimed they would DP Chaqa, so it was irrelevant.

Because if you are town, Chaqa would not have known that you were not the DP, so you might have used that to test his claim in some way.

[bozotheclown]

Even if the Divine Presence took the Lover's power tree away? I would expect so, because the Lover chose before the DP, but I don't know for sure.

And I don't know if the Lover is told that the Divine Presence visited them. That's something bozo should have been interested in knowing.

Why would I be interesting in knowing that when I was not the DP? No one else claimed they would DP Chaqa, so it was irrelevant.

Because if you are town, Chaqa would not have known that you were not the DP, so you might have used that to test his claim in some way.

By fake claiming DP? Even if Chaqa would have been notified, he would just deny it, and it would not have told me anything. Even if I had thought of what you are suggesting, I would have had no interest in fake claiming DP, there could have been a real DP to CC and get me mislynched.