Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[connorcompton]

In conclusion, I believe ET and Fox are the scum team and the best pair to fit that possibility. I believe the vote count backs this up as does the statements from both.

Fucking hell, those vote speculations were biased as fuck! Really ND? You're trying to tell us that, on Day 4, ALL of scum voted for 1 person - not 3-1 or 2-2, but 4-0? You're also trying to tell me that on Day 2, 5/6 scum were on Espresso - not 4-2, or 3-3, but fucking 5-1?? You even try to justify that it was only 5-1 because peter "was trying to catch up" and "was not informed in his vote"??

You've truly lost it ND; this is tunneling at its finest - and I just can't understand why you, of all damn people, is the one spewing stupidity. The only explanation that makes sense is that you're scum, because there's no way an experienced player like you would try to state that with a straight face!

Also, no mention that while perhaps et has been on the lynch wagon every day, that et was one of the first on bozo's wagon? And bozo's wagon was going nowhere until the VERY last minutes?

So much damn tunneling on et from you ND - the pieces of the puzzle don't fit together. I agree et's play is VERY suspect, but trying to back yourself up on your scum team read by speculating that scum voted in unison not once, but twice?!?

Other than your obscene tunneling on et and disregarding your "speculation", I do agree that Fox needs to be lynched next - I agree with your points on his gameplay. However, I don't agree with your scumteam, because you're crazy enough to think that scum voted in unison not once, but twice. Despite this, I do think that your points on Fox's play are some good ones - and while I don't agree with your scumteam, which you're making some serious leaps and bounds trying to justify, I think you're right about Fox.

I think the reason the scum may have fully gathered onto one person is fairly obvious. If they didn't, they would have lynched scum. Obviously they would do that to save one of their team.

[ChippeRock]

K well d4, if fox is scum then at a minimum they block voted three out of four on teacon same d3. So yeah they block voted. At least twice. Definitely more than twice though.

"Definitely more than twice though"??? You damn serious ND? You've lost your mind - and I'm not sure if that's alignment indicative. Seems so townie to double down on the stupidity...

[ChippeRock]

In conclusion, I believe ET and Fox are the scum team and the best pair to fit that possibility. I believe the vote count backs this up as does the statements from both.

Fucking hell, those vote speculations were biased as fuck! Really ND? You're trying to tell us that, on Day 4, ALL of scum voted for 1 person - not 3-1 or 2-2, but 4-0? You're also trying to tell me that on Day 2, 5/6 scum were on Espresso - not 4-2, or 3-3, but fucking 5-1?? You even try to justify that it was only 5-1 because peter "was trying to catch up" and "was not informed in his vote"??

You've truly lost it ND; this is tunneling at its finest - and I just can't understand why you, of all damn people, is the one spewing stupidity. The only explanation that makes sense is that you're scum, because there's no way an experienced player like you would try to state that with a straight face!

Also, no mention that while perhaps et has been on the lynch wagon every day, that et was one of the first on bozo's wagon? And bozo's wagon was going nowhere until the VERY last minutes?

So much damn tunneling on et from you ND - the pieces of the puzzle don't fit together. I agree et's play is VERY suspect, but trying to back yourself up on your scum team read by speculating that scum voted in unison not once, but twice?!?

Other than your obscene tunneling on et and disregarding your "speculation", I do agree that Fox needs to be lynched next - I agree with your points on his gameplay. However, I don't agree with your scumteam, because you're crazy enough to think that scum voted in unison not once, but twice. Despite this, I do think that your points on Fox's play are some good ones - and while I don't agree with your scumteam, which you're making some serious leaps and bounds trying to justify, I think you're right about Fox.

I think the reason the scum may have fully gathered onto one person is fairly obvious. If they didn't, they would have lynched scum. Obviously they would do that to save one of their team.

ND is insisting that not only did Mafia vote in unison BOTH times Judge used his power because BOTH times exactly 1 scum buddy was one of the two lynch options, BOTH times town mislynched, and Mafia "definitely did it more than twice"?

ND is crazy. The Mafia wouln't be THAT bold and gamble it all to save their scum buddy TWICE.

[et]

Thanks.
Chippe.
Sorry to lurking.
I was in poor health.
And now OK. I can join this game actively from today.

[Jamiet99uk]

For the Peterbot:

UNEND GAME

[Foxcastle]

ND's "case" starts with the assumption that ET and I are scum and then fits whatever facts he can cherrypick to fit his narrative. He says he eliminated everyone else, so I'd really like to see all that evidence, too.

He does point out something that I think is actually in my favor: my variously shifting reads. My views have changed as game has progressed and I've learned more information. (In contrast to ND, who's views can't change because he already knows who's who in the game; he can only pretend to change his views. I suspect he doesn't because he knows he's less likely to get caught this way.)

Happy to answer any questions.

[Foxcastle]

For the Peterbot:

UNEND GAME

Does not seem to have taken. (Though the bot says it's only checking every 20 minutes...)

[Jamiet99uk]

GM NOTE

One more time. I'll check with Peterlund too. It's not the end of the world though, there are a small enough number of players left, that Vote Counts are going to be quite easy.

UNEND GAME
GAME HAS UNENDED
GAME UNENDED

[Percy Williams]

They did have Xorxes as secretary, and I could see him telling the team to all vote the same wagon as wifom.
Explanation: so at the end of the game we start striking possible scum because they are all on the same wagon, which any fool knows scum shouldn't do.

I think we're seeing the cycle move back around, making this move good again.

[Percy Williams]

Fucking hell, those vote speculations were biased as fuck! Really ND? You're trying to tell us that, on Day 4, ALL of scum voted for 1 person - not 3-1 or 2-2, but 4-0? You're also trying to tell me that on Day 2, 5/6 scum were on Espresso - not 4-2, or 3-3, but fucking 5-1?? You even try to justify that it was only 5-1 because peter "was trying to catch up" and "was not informed in his vote"??

You've truly lost it ND; this is tunneling at its finest - and I just can't understand why you, of all damn people, is the one spewing stupidity. The only explanation that makes sense is that you're scum, because there's no way an experienced player like you would try to state that with a straight face!

Also, no mention that while perhaps et has been on the lynch wagon every day, that et was one of the first on bozo's wagon? And bozo's wagon was going nowhere until the VERY last minutes?

So much damn tunneling on et from you ND - the pieces of the puzzle don't fit together. I agree et's play is VERY suspect, but trying to back yourself up on your scum team read by speculating that scum voted in unison not once, but twice?!?

Other than your obscene tunneling on et and disregarding your "speculation", I do agree that Fox needs to be lynched next - I agree with your points on his gameplay. However, I don't agree with your scumteam, because you're crazy enough to think that scum voted in unison not once, but twice. Despite this, I do think that your points on Fox's play are some good ones - and while I don't agree with your scumteam, which you're making some serious leaps and bounds trying to justify, I think you're right about Fox.

I think the reason the scum may have fully gathered onto one person is fairly obvious. If they didn't, they would have lynched scum. Obviously they would do that to save one of their team.

ND is insisting that not only did Mafia vote in unison BOTH times Judge used his power because BOTH times exactly 1 scum buddy was one of the two lynch options, BOTH times town mislynched, and Mafia "definitely did it more than twice"?

ND is crazy. The Mafia wouln't be THAT bold and gamble it all to save their scum buddy TWICE.

It's possible that it's crazy but worked. Like that time EMC claimed alien cop. Complete gamble, but they did think he wasn't the alien because of it.

[Foxcastle]

ND comes to Percy's defense. Percy comes in to defend ND's theory...

Maybe that is too good to be true. (But it's no less crazy than ND's theory where scum are behaving in ways that I think are unlikely.)

[Foxcastle]

My prediction is that there will only be one kill tonight.

[Durga]

My prediction is that there will only be one kill tonight.

It's going to be Squigs. Rip Squigs

[connorcompton]

ND's "case" starts with the assumption that ET and I are scum and then fits whatever facts he can cherrypick to fit his narrative. He says he eliminated everyone else, so I'd really like to see all that evidence, too.

He does point out something that I think is actually in my favor: my variously shifting reads. My views have changed as game has progressed and I've learned more information. (In contrast to ND, who's views can't change because he already knows who's who in the game; he can only pretend to change his views. I suspect he doesn't because he knows he's less likely to get caught this way.)

Happy to answer any questions.

I agree ND's analysis was way too presumptive of your and et's guilt, I don't think he did a very good job explaining why it's unlikely to be anybody else in the original post.
But I really don't see how it's that strange for all the Mafia to gather on the side of the person who isn't their teammate twice. If ND is correct, and you valued keeping an inconspicuous voting record over your team, you would both be dead and we would've won.

[Foxcastle]

ND's "case" starts with the assumption that ET and I are scum and then fits whatever facts he can cherrypick to fit his narrative. He says he eliminated everyone else, so I'd really like to see all that evidence, too.

He does point out something that I think is actually in my favor: my variously shifting reads. My views have changed as game has progressed and I've learned more information. (In contrast to ND, who's views can't change because he already knows who's who in the game; he can only pretend to change his views. I suspect he doesn't because he knows he's less likely to get caught this way.)

Happy to answer any questions.

I agree ND's analysis was way too presumptive of your and et's guilt, I don't think he did a very good job explaining why it's unlikely to be anybody else in the original post.
But I really don't see how it's that strange for all the Mafia to gather on the side of the person who isn't their teammate twice. If ND is correct, and you valued keeping an inconspicuous voting record over your team, you would both be dead and we would've won.

This is all WIFOM. You don't think scum would bus? It would certainly have been discussed in the Mafia QT, given Balki's bus on Xorxes D3.

More to the point, you think I would stick my neckout to keep the Teacon wagon viable (when Xorxes was clearly going to be lynched), but then claim I played it safe on the Judge vote?

I think there are a couple of improbabilities you're hanging your hat(s) on:
1) It's improbable that Neph picked Town-v-Scum both times and that we failed to lynch scum either time. Call me a Bayesian, but I just don't think that happens. I think* both were Town-v-Town (*and know mine was).

2) It's improbable that scum didn't bus their teammate either day on the Judge vote. Maybe et doesn't, I don't know, he's new and so hard to say. (Except if he is scum, he did on Day 3 on Xorxes.) But me? I'm a busser. I would have bussed Xorxes rather than stick my neck out on Teacon. And it's speculative, but I probably would have bussed et.

(Also, from on ontological perspective, the original point becomes endogenous after D2, which doesn't pass muster from a philosophical perspective.)

[ND]

@Chippie: “"Definitely more than twice though"??? You damn serious ND? You've lost your mind - and I'm not sure if that's alignment indicative. Seems so townie to double down on the stupidity…”

Minimum: Balki, Xorxes, Damo on Espresso and just Peter on ET. If Fox is scum as you and I suspect then that is (4/6) on Espresso. That is group voting. It’s not an illogical jump of reasoning to think they group voted to save ET by voting Espresso. Why would they group vote if it's not to save a team mate @Chippie because we already know that at a minimum half the team was on Espresso and more than half if Fox is scum. Minimum: Peter, Damo on Teacon D3 with Balki on Xorxes and Xorxes on Percy. If Fox is scum then that is (3 /4 on Teacon wagon D3). That’s group voting. @Chippie: Why would they group vote D3 @Chippie? We know it is TvM D3 and we have a large pool of scum not on Xorxes. Why? To save a team mate. D4 minimum of Peter, Damo on Teacon. If Fox is scum then that means 3 / 4 of scum are on Teacon D4. That’s group voting. @Chippie? Why you think Fox is scum too. Why would scum group on the other wagon @Chippie? To save a team mate. So yeah, more than twice just based on the flips we have. If you factor in ET being scum those numbers are even higher.

@Fox: “ND's "case" starts with the assumption that ET and I are scum and then fits whatever facts he can cherrypick to fit his narrative. He says he eliminated everyone else, so I'd really like to see all that evidence, too.” About how I expected you would respond and about what I would expect from a guilty man. Percy (disqualified as I wrote in my analysis), Conner (disqualified due to the Damo v Conner thing), Flav (I am town reading him I don’t think he is scum), Squigs (I am town reading him I don’t think he is scum), Chippie (Disqualified I don't think he is scum). one of them is BA, but not scum. The rest of your point is garbage. Your reads are contrived and forced. I’ve proved you and ET are scum and the rest are eliminated from being scum by process of elimination. Most recent reply: “You don't think scum would bus?” Well we know from Peter and Damo’s flips that they *DID NOT* bus Xorxes and I wager they didn’t bus you or ET either. One of you two are the roleblocker and they wouldn’t bus that role it’s too valuable.

@Conner: See this post. I have eliminated everyone else via process of elimination. No one else makes sense to be on the team other than ET and Fox at this point.

[Squigs44]

Oh Foxcastle, you're such a Bayesian

[Squigs44]

I don't know if Foxcastle works on a mafia team with anyone unless there is bussing involved. Might need to explore some nonFox teams to see if another team makes more sense.

[Squigs44]

My prediction is that there will only be one kill tonight.

It's going to be Squigs. Rip Squigs

One can only hope for the sweet release of a NK

[Foxcastle]

A little garbled, but also a little nonsensical. So many "ifs" so little evidence... I especially like "I’ve proved you and ET are scum and the rest are eliminated from being scum by process of elimination" for how it exposes your faulty scum-based thinking: you picked your targets and built a case around them rather than actually solving.

Also, I object to the characterization of my reads being forced. Forced would be spending the whole game zoned in on et, and only finding a new target after it becomes clear that your continued tunneling isn't getting you anywhere.

But sure, you could call my reads contrived. But only because I'm honest that I'm not going back and rereading the whole damn game. I very much doubt you did.