Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[FlaviusAetius]

I’m like the only person who’s posted thoughts on both of them, and I already said I also liked this move. Everyone is lashing out against it, but it feels so nearsighted on the part of the unenthused.

I guess the question is, did we really need to be talking about lurkers today?
I dont think so

[Durga]

I’m like the only person who’s posted thoughts on both of them, and I already said I also liked this move. Everyone is lashing out against it, but it feels so nearsighted on the part of the unenthused.

What are your thoughts again? Please keep it under 3 sentences for each player. Also, how would you know if its nearsighted if you were town. Even if you, for some reason, liked this move, as a townie (I can see being scum and knowing both players are town and liking the move)

Aghhhhh that is the scummiest thing I've really read all game.

Also, just for the record, I think Flav is town. I feel his reaction to this is townie, and that he cares about the game and the outcomes, and I'm really coming around on him.

[Durga]

My case on TrPrado is limited, but I'd still like to see him as a lynch candidate after today.

First, while it's not AI, I dislike vote hopping all over Day 1. (As a counter-example, ND did this as town in the last game.) But this is kinda what put me off about him in the first place.

Second, the walls of text. Easy way to look busy without actually contributing anything. Others have pointed out some of the problems with this. They're easy to skim past. They're descriptive but not necessarily analytical. They're a lot of effort on Day 1 when there's unlikely to be much return on the work or ability for others to come back later and pick apart, because they're based on all the early interactions. But hey, he looked busy.

Lastly, it's the opportunistic votes. The vote on cruaader, that Chippe's been on about. The vote on me. (I know, OMGUS!) The thing with the vote on me is that TrPrado really seems to be trying to leverage Carl's reads to make it happen. He points out that "Carl wasn't the reason I voted for you," but it's the sole basis for his push, since he hasn't given any other actual analysis of my play that points to scum.

And the cherry on top is that after invoking Carl in trying to start a wagon on me, he turns around and shades ND for doing similar with Bozo's reads. So I see a contradiction there, but can resolve it if he's scum: because he doesn't actually believe in dead townies' reads (he doesn't need to when he knows who's town), he just slipped for a moment and forgot he had been using them as a convenience to opportunistically to push me.

Ok, but you seem pretty scummy in a lot of people's eyes including mine.
So this definitely seems like you are trying to revive a dying TrPrado wagon

You make some good points though I just dont buy it coming from you

"You make some good points though I just dont buy it coming from you"

This is silly. If he's making good points in your mind, maybe you should change your perspective?

[Durga]

@BA please kill TrPrado tonight

[FlaviusAetius]

##vote et

I literally don't understand any of his posts.

With EP I can follow most of his reasoning and see where a townie thinks those things even if I disagree with some of it. I agree with rdr that EP asking for a claim from et could come from either alignment.

I dont think English is his first language, give him a break, and try rereading his posts

[FlaviusAetius]

My case on TrPrado is limited, but I'd still like to see him as a lynch candidate after today.

First, while it's not AI, I dislike vote hopping all over Day 1. (As a counter-example, ND did this as town in the last game.) But this is kinda what put me off about him in the first place.

Second, the walls of text. Easy way to look busy without actually contributing anything. Others have pointed out some of the problems with this. They're easy to skim past. They're descriptive but not necessarily analytical. They're a lot of effort on Day 1 when there's unlikely to be much return on the work or ability for others to come back later and pick apart, because they're based on all the early interactions. But hey, he looked busy.

Lastly, it's the opportunistic votes. The vote on cruaader, that Chippe's been on about. The vote on me. (I know, OMGUS!) The thing with the vote on me is that TrPrado really seems to be trying to leverage Carl's reads to make it happen. He points out that "Carl wasn't the reason I voted for you," but it's the sole basis for his push, since he hasn't given any other actual analysis of my play that points to scum.

And the cherry on top is that after invoking Carl in trying to start a wagon on me, he turns around and shades ND for doing similar with Bozo's reads. So I see a contradiction there, but can resolve it if he's scum: because he doesn't actually believe in dead townies' reads (he doesn't need to when he knows who's town), he just slipped for a moment and forgot he had been using them as a convenience to opportunistically to push me.

Ok, but you seem pretty scummy in a lot of people's eyes including mine.
So this definitely seems like you are trying to revive a dying TrPrado wagon

You make some good points though I just dont buy it coming from you

"You make some good points though I just dont buy it coming from you"

This is silly. If he's making good points in your mind, maybe you should change your perspective?

Or maybe he's saying it with some kind of reasoning behind it?
Before this, he was a candidate for the lynch, and so was TrPrado, him taking an early stance is questionable at best, and why now when its Espresso v et?
It just doesnt make sense coming from him.
@Foxcastle Why did you find it important to weigh in on TrPrado, now of all times?

Also @Durga I'm the one whose been on TrPrado this WHOLE game, so this kind of comment is making me CHANGE my perspective on him

[FlaviusAetius]

Oh alright then ##UNEND while it's evenly balanced.

I must say that I think it's weird that those not having voted by the Judge call cannot vote no lynch whereas those having already voted can just sit back and not vote effectively voting for no lynch.


Either no lynch should be an option or everybody should have to vote for one of the two.

I agree with this.

Agreed

[FlaviusAetius]

Oh alright then ##UNEND while it's evenly balanced.

I must say that I think it's weird that those not having voted by the Judge call cannot vote no lynch whereas those having already voted can just sit back and not vote effectively voting for no lynch.


Either no lynch should be an option or everybody should have to vote for one of the two.

I agree with this.

Yeah, but then somebody who meets the post/voting requirements and then can't be around the final 24 hours is punished for not abiding by the rules they didn't know where going to be in effect. I agree with the sentiment that it would be better to force everyone to vote, but I just don't think you can do that fairly.

Add 24 more hours

[EspressoPatronum]

Espresso encouraged et to PR claim is as scummy as hell

##VOTE ESPRESSO

Could you explain why? Why scum EP claim VT and give town et the chance to claim? It only make some sense if both are scum.

No, scum EP only. He wants et to claim so either he’s sacrificing himself for scum team to kill PR or he wants another PR to CC so that et can die and another PR is up for NK

If I was scum, I would have claimed %100. Ask @Durga... She's played a ton of games with me irl and I wouldn't even flinch in an opportunity like that.

I'm on mobile right now, but I'll type up my reasoning on why I think a PR claim in this situation is a good idea. Gimme like 2 hours

[FlaviusAetius]

I would be voting et right now for him just poking holes in arguments this entire game, and Espresso actually producing content, but then Espresso went ahead and wanted et to claim PR
##vote Espresso
@Espresso give a good answer to this and I think a lot of people are going to be switching their votes

[FlaviusAetius]

I need to go to a party now, I'll check this right before I go, see ya until then

[EspressoPatronum]

Do you think claiming VT is probably not good play?
But you said that
'His(et's) reaction to the claim thing is interesting. He keep his options open (maybe waiting for Secretary to say something? I know it´s speculation, but can´t not to think about this).'
Why do you think not claiming is interesting?
Did you change thought?

I think EP claiming VT is probably bad play either as town or scum, yes.

But the situation is a bit different, he claimed VT first, you could have also claimed VT, claimed PR (which will be a bad play as town so far from EOD) or say you don't intend to claim any role, but you just give a response that seems to keep your options open for later, you even did not vote EP until now. But I am not reading much on it, to be honest, I just find weird people basing his votes on EP claiming VT.

I suggested EP not to claim role. But he claimed.
I don't hope this situation. But, I think I shouldn't claim my role.

"Claiming" VT isn't really a claim imo. By saying I'm VT (vanilla town), I'm assuring the town I am not a PR and thus am a safer lynch if they believe you're a PR.

The whole claiming thing doesn't really matter if we're both VT.

[EspressoPatronum]

I would be voting et right now for him just poking holes in arguments this entire game, and Espresso actually producing content, but then Espresso went ahead and wanted et to claim PR
##vote Espresso
@Espresso give a good answer to this and I think a lot of people are going to be switching their votes

Will do. See above post on this page. 2ish hours

[Foxcastle]

Before this, he was a candidate for the lynch, and so was TrPrado, him taking an early stance is questionable at best, and why now when its Espresso v et?
It just doesnt make sense coming from him.
@Foxcastle Why did you find it important to weigh in on TrPrado, now of all times?

Also @Durga I'm the one whose been on TrPrado this WHOLE game, so this kind of comment is making me CHANGE my perspective on him

I had started my push on TrPrado before the Judge vote was called. I wanted to finish that. It's not like the thread has a lot of other pressing matters to deal with, so we can still use this time productively.

So... am I reading you right, Flavius? You've been on TrPrado the whole game, and you've been scumreading me recently. And then I make some good points (your words), which you don't want to believe (I assume because you think I'm scum?), but instead want to believe the opposite?

That seems like motivated reasoning. And if I'm right that you and TrPrado are both scum, seems like a good excuse for you to move off bussing TrPrado.

[xorxes]

I think ##VOTE Espresso

It's likely they are both town, but et's posts feel more off-the-cuff and spontaneous and Espresso's posts are more considered, which is not necessarily scummy but there's not much more to go on.

I don't think claiming VT, especially so early helps town, but it's not particularly scummy either, just not well thought out.

[xorxes]

People complaining about the vote rule are being silly. If someone doesn't commit to a vote for one of the two choices because they were already voting for someone else, that still tells us something about them, no matter if the rules allow them to do so.

[xorxes]

"Claiming" VT isn't really a claim imo. By saying I'm VT (vanilla town), I'm assuring the town I am not a PR and thus am a safer lynch if they believe you're a PR.

The whole claiming thing doesn't really matter if we're both VT.

It matters because if you're both VT then whoever survives is still hidden. If one is PR, they will claim anyway if they are about to be lynched, but will not need to claim if the other one is going to be lynched, so there's at least a chance that they are not exposed.

[worcej]

Vote Count 2.9

EspressoPatronum (8) TrPrado, damo666, Foxcastle, et, Nephthys, Tom Bombadil, FlaviusAetius, xorxes
et (4) rdrivera2005, connorcompton, EspressoPatronum, Squigs44

Currently EspressoPatronum is set to be found GUILTY!

You have ~21 hours left in D2.

[Squigs44]

Alright, just got home, about to do an iso on both of them with questions.

[Squigs44]

Espresso Patronum:
His early push on Chippe feels genuine to me, and he is urging Chippe to be more useful rather than use Chippe's behavior as an easy vote.
He has two interactions with Durga on D1 pretty close to each other, one where he defends something she does, and another that is disagreeing with Durga. This looks very much like someone paying attention to arguments rather than pushing a specific agenda. The parked vote on Chippe is something that I dislike a bit about EP, although the push at the beginning of the day felt genuine, and EP was gone for the last 1:50 of the day before wagons consolidated.
EP's answers to questions here I really like, especially the explanations on Chippe and teacon. The vote EP has on Foxcastle after TrPrado pushes is quite sudden without explanation, and he never explains it. Then, after I point out the car bomb, EP switches onto Flav using the panicked scum theory. Both of these votes and this post expressing confidence in those scum reads seems like a huge jump to me.
I already made a post saying I think that EP claiming VT and asking for et's role is NAI, as it would be bad play by either alignment. I think with how both EP and et have played this out it is very unlikely that they are both scum.

Overall I think EP had a townie D1 and a scummy D2. The pushes on Fox and Flav looked opportunistic and so I want to hear more from EP about both of those.

Questions for EP:
You really only pushed Chippe's wagon in the first half of day 1. Why were you not pushing Chippe's wagon during the second half of day 1 when consolidating wagons mattered more.
Was Chippe your strongest scumread at the end of day 1? If you had been able to make it to the end of day 1, would you have stayed on Chippe, or voted for another wagon do you think?
Your scumreads on Fox and Flav seem like they came off of other people's theories. Can you explain both of these more?