Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[FlaviusAetius]

It's pretty fruitless to run in circular loops with Chippie. I've already proven him to be a fraud.

I've also commented on Flav's bizarre association with Chippie. There is something going on there.

@Balki: I noticed the Conner thing too. That caught my eyebrow. I don't get it.

But then again I don't really get Flav and I think he is dense like a rock so there's that.

Also where is @Teacon

Know what I hate about you people, none of you care to explain literally anything
Its all 'this is how I believe, so tough'
Like ok, yea maybe I am dense like a rock, but why do you utterly not even care about explaining literally anything. Why is my association with Chippie so bizarre?? People picked on him before this game started, and I thought it was fair to let him play, glad we allowed it. But it seems that's all spilled over into the game. We need to focus on people not to keep opening up new wagons.
Please tell me what hasnt already been answered that makes C hippie such a scum? It seems you and Durga are deadset on it
(sorry rdrivera thought you thought he was scum)

[Nephthys]

I will however continue what I have been doing and provide no evidence. Just my reads.

Why? I'd like to see the reasons for your reads.

Go back and so the last game I played. I had a gut read wrong, tried to make a case and ended up tunneling and nearly costing town the game before I realized and ended on myself.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I will however continue what I have been doing and provide no evidence. Just my reads.

Why? I'd like to see the reasons for your reads.

Go back and so the last game I played. I had a gut read wrong, tried to make a case and ended up tunneling and nearly costing town the game before I realized and ended on myself.

Well, I am not saying you need to try to make a case. But you should be able to provide your reasons for thinking the way you do without much effort. I'm not asking you to do something extra and "try to make a case." Just share the reasons swirling in your head right now.

Three benefits of this: (1) others can see your reasons, and maybe be convinced by them, (2) others can see your reasons, and talk to you about them, and maybe help inform your view, (3) others can see your thought process and sort your alignment.

It's pretty important. I'm not saying build a case if you don't want to. Just share your thinking as it is now.

[FlaviusAetius]

I really think we want Judge to act today. Really need to get this lynch right, but there are 7/19 non-townies with no clears to follow as guiding lights. I think we have better odds if we have a known townie acting to cut pool down to 2. Interested in thoughts from others on this too.

Also, if people want to make suggestions on who would be useful dipoles (groups of two to choose between), I'd like to see those suggestions too.

You know we could really rig it, and put someone who is the obvious town, and someone who we think is mafia, and just easy lynch.
Connor is clearly the obvious town, TrPrado or FoxCastle imo, and then we just make lurkers talk for the rest of today, so we can find stuff about them

This comment is utterly bizarre.

How is Connor "obvious town"? And why would we want to put an obvious townie in the pool of two? I don't understand how this would be useful. Also, how would this strategy "make lurkers talk for the rest of the day"?

I'm super lost

Anyone who wanted to kill TrPrado with me is obvious scum, because they didnt settle on two bad wagons, and instead actually tried to solve with an hour left in the day, this includes;
Me, Connor, Chippie, Carl and Tom.
Carl is now dead, and he turned out a town

Now, if we put two people who we think are mafia, it doesnt help anything, because it becomes a slugfest, and in the end, we'll think both are scum no matter what. Then it will be a repeat of xorxes v tecon

If we do one person who we think is mafia and one person who we think is a town then, we kill the mafia, and can put pressure on lurkers to talk, so then we get an extra day to get info from them

[EspressoPatronum]

Hold up... I am re-reading Flavius again, and came across this:



But you were lynched in Lylo last game. How in the world were you lynched without being being accused of scum?

Flav lied, was accused of lying, then tells another lie. Or was this just another "mistake"?

Another factor to add to the Flav list.
- Caught lying
- Saved by an influx of last minute votes
- The most likely candidate for the assassin doing a panic day kill

@Espresso: I think one of Chippie or Flav have to be scum. I've explained why I think it's Chippie, but Flav does seem to really buddy up to him and that is usually a scumtell. It doesn't make sense for scum to buddy scum. What do you think?

My Read on Both of Them:
I'm basing my Flav read on the assassin having to call the bomb in the day + then it activating at night. If that's an incorrect interpretation, I'm not as confident in my read. The vote swing and his lying are two red flags.

Most of my want to kill Chippe is policy-based. Even if we don't kill him, I think we should consider enforcing stricter rules on attempts (perceived or real) to game the system. It deteriorates the integrity of the game, and if we allow it +/ reward it, it incentivizes others to do it in the future. I don't know the right answer to it, but I think voting him out asap is one of the answers.
- That being said, the fact that darg was bailiff makes Chippe's D1 actions more sus. As stated earlier, I thought he could maybe even be breadcrumbing with the incompetence flavour of the bailiff, but that's not possible anymore.
- his behaviour since he stopped the VT thing appears fairly town.

The Bottom Line
If I had to lynch one or the other based on my scum read alone, I'd pick Flav EVEN IF I am incorrect about the bomb sequencing. If I am correct about the bomb sequencing, I legit can't see how it can be anyone other than Flav. I want to hedge all that by saying how important I think game integrity is, so in other scenarios, I would probably lynch Chippe.

The Buddy Question
Buddying a scum as scum could be a great strategy under the right circumstances. If the 'buddier' dies, the buddy target could maybe use that to get town points or something. It strikes me as the opposite scenario as when two scum argue really hard against each other. For an example of the latter, imagine the teacon v xorxes debate from m1007 if they were both maf. Once one died, the other would be pretty safe. In either the arguing or buddying scenarios, I'd say it's high-risk / high-reward.

[FlaviusAetius]

I will however continue what I have been doing and provide no evidence. Just my reads.

Why? I'd like to see the reasons for your reads.

Go back and so the last game I played. I had a gut read wrong, tried to make a case and ended up tunneling and nearly costing town the game before I realized and ended on myself.

You were hardcore betrayed by brainbomb, I have no clue why he did that

[EspressoPatronum]

Oh, and yeah...
NOT just because she sent me a heart... but what exactly is scummy about Durga? I don't see it.
Durga is involved, and arguing without excessive anger/defensive. This feels like townie Durga to me.
Her explanation about D1 tracks with reality...
So convince me.

Took a look at darg's posts again. If he makes statements like this, why would he jail you Durga?

Seems like that is the reason he jailed Durga. He read her as Town and he wanted to protect her from the Night Kill.

She also asked to be jailed on page 82:

I'd like to be jailed, please & thx

[Nephthys]

Why? I'd like to see the reasons for your reads.

Go back and so the last game I played. I had a gut read wrong, tried to make a case and ended up tunneling and nearly costing town the game before I realized and ended on myself.

You were hardcore betrayed by brainbomb, I have no clue why he did that

What did he do? I highkey forgot

[ChippeRock]

Took a look at darg's posts again. If he makes statements like this, why would he jail you Durga?

Seems like that is the reason he jailed Durga. He read her as Town and he wanted to protect her from the Night Kill.

She also asked to be jailed on page 82:

I'd like to be jailed, please & thx

Hmm, that's a very interesting quote there. Is this crumbing from Durga or is this fake crumbing from Durga or is this not crumbing at all?

[EspressoPatronum]

Seems like that is the reason he jailed Durga. He read her as Town and he wanted to protect her from the Night Kill.

She also asked to be jailed on page 82:

I'd like to be jailed, please & thx

Hmm, that's a very interesting quote there. Is this crumbing from Durga or is this fake crumbing from Durga or is this not crumbing at all?

If it's crumbing you probably shouldn't point it out unless she claims.

I don't think it's crumbing. She was pretty active D1 and likely thought she'd be targeted.

[ND]

Another factor to add to the Flav list.
- Caught lying
- Saved by an influx of last minute votes
- The most likely candidate for the assassin doing a panic day kill

@Espresso: I think one of Chippie or Flav have to be scum. I've explained why I think it's Chippie, but Flav does seem to really buddy up to him and that is usually a scumtell. It doesn't make sense for scum to buddy scum. What do you think?

My Read on Both of Them:
I'm basing my Flav read on the assassin having to call the bomb in the day + then it activating at night. If that's an incorrect interpretation, I'm not as confident in my read. The vote swing and his lying are two red flags.

Most of my want to kill Chippe is policy-based. Even if we don't kill him, I think we should consider enforcing stricter rules on attempts (perceived or real) to game the system. It deteriorates the integrity of the game, and if we allow it +/ reward it, it incentivizes others to do it in the future. I don't know the right answer to it, but I think voting him out asap is one of the answers.
- That being said, the fact that darg was bailiff makes Chippe's D1 actions more sus. As stated earlier, I thought he could maybe even be breadcrumbing with the incompetence flavour of the bailiff, but that's not possible anymore.
- his behaviour since he stopped the VT thing appears fairly town.

The Bottom Line
If I had to lynch one or the other based on my scum read alone, I'd pick Flav EVEN IF I am incorrect about the bomb sequencing. If I am correct about the bomb sequencing, I legit can't see how it can be anyone other than Flav. I want to hedge all that by saying how important I think game integrity is, so in other scenarios, I would probably lynch Chippe.

The Buddy Question
Buddying a scum as scum could be a great strategy under the right circumstances. If the 'buddier' dies, the buddy target could maybe use that to get town points or something. It strikes me as the opposite scenario as when two scum argue really hard against each other. For an example of the latter, imagine the teacon v xorxes debate from m1007 if they were both maf. Once one died, the other would be pretty safe. In either the arguing or buddying scenarios, I'd say it's high-risk / high-reward.

I think this is a really well thought out post. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it a bit more. I am going to take a deep dive into Flav tonight I think. He is raising my eyebrows.

As to what Flav said above:

"Why is my association with Chippie so bizarre??"

I think it's buddying or very near borderline buddying if that makes sense.

"People picked on him before this game started, and I thought it was fair to let him play, glad we allowed it. But it seems that's all spilled over into the game. We need to focus on people not to keep opening up new wagons."

What does this have to do with anything. I accepted the decision to let him play. I haven't brought that up in-game. Why are you tying that to the game. It has nothing to do with it. His actions are what is causing me to scumread him.

"Please tell me what hasnt already been answered that makes C hippie such a scum? "

You have your mind made up on him. Nothing I say is going to convince you. If you truly care then re-read his logic on teacon/cruaader. I completely dissect it and make him backpeddle. That's only one example. There are way more examples. If you read him logically and my counterpoints to him you will see a lot of cracks in his facade.

[FlaviusAetius]

I am tired of this nonsense that I am buddying Chippie, its simply NOT true
First of all I am the one who decided to lynch TrPrado, CHIPPIE joined me
Second of all I am one of the many people who defended Chippie, is defending people all of a sudden buddying now?
Third of all, Chippie agreed with me(rightly) that TrPrado is scum and still is, join our wagon guys
Fourth of all, does someone who is buddying disagree with literally everything that person has been saying?
TWO, TWO things me and Chippie agree on; He is a town, TrPrado is a scum

Espresso do tell us why you were lurking on Day 1? Is it because you were 'too busy'?
Also guys darg never crumbed he was Baliff, so how in the world did mafia find him? There had to be an ulterior motive for it, Im rereading darg right now

[FlaviusAetius]

Go back and so the last game I played. I had a gut read wrong, tried to make a case and ended up tunneling and nearly costing town the game before I realized and ended on myself.

You were hardcore betrayed by brainbomb, I have no clue why he did that

What did he do? I highkey forgot

He turned everyone against you at EoD without you being on to defend yourself, despite defending you the entire day, one of the main reasons he got lynched the next day

[Nephthys]

You were hardcore betrayed by brainbomb, I have no clue why he did that

What did he do? I highkey forgot

He turned everyone against you at EoD without you being on to defend yourself, despite defending you the entire day, one of the main reasons he got lynched the next day

Oh lol, that, shit was funny.

I was personally referring to the previous game I think where I went to the final four?

[ND]

I am tired of this nonsense that I am buddying Chippie, its simply NOT true
First of all I am the one who decided to lynch TrPrado, CHIPPIE joined me
Second of all I am one of the many people who defended Chippie, is defending people all of a sudden buddying now?
Third of all, Chippie agreed with me(rightly) that TrPrado is scum and still is, join our wagon guys
Fourth of all, does someone who is buddying disagree with literally everything that person has been saying?
TWO, TWO things me and Chippie agree on; He is a town, TrPrado is a scum

Espresso do tell us why you were lurking on Day 1? Is it because you were 'too busy'?
Also guys darg never crumbed he was Baliff, so how in the world did mafia find him? There had to be an ulterior motive for it, Im rereading darg right now

Lol, I find this post so fake. I love the... "its simply NOT true"

Um, I'm thinking this guy might be scum boys. I'm going to re-read this dude and make a determination.

[Balki Bartokomous]

##vote Foxcastle

That's where my head is right now. Though, I am not at all confident. And I have not ISOed Fox, and I need to do that. But here are the impressions in my mind:

Fox has been sitting back, cracking jokes all the time, super chill. He has sprinkled in comments. He's been around. But he has not been taking stands. Most of his reads have been about gathering information or enforcing policies. He has not taken a stand on anything likely to get pushback. He has not made any scumread on an experienced player who would put him in the spotlight.

He's playing to avoid confrontation.

I made a similar read on him for similar reasons the last time we played together, and I was right at that time. I feel like he may be scum again here.

[xorxes]

There are only three possible scenarios on what happened this night:

1) darg was killed by Mafia day kill, SK killed Carl, Mafia tried killing SK
2) darg was killed by Mafia day kill, SK killed Carl, Mafia tried killing whoever darg jailed
3) darg was killed by Mafia day kill, SK tracked somebody, Mafia killed Carl

The 3rd option is the most likely in my opinion, but there's a decent chance either of these 3 scenarios occurred. Progress!!

Assuming flavor is meaningful, which it seems to be, that seems correct, plus:

4) darg was killed by Mafia day kill, SK was jailed, Mafia killed Carl

Since Durga was jailed, then (2) means she was the NK target and (4) means she is SK. In either case she is not Mafia.

If (1), Mafia know who the SK is.

(3) is the least informative, but I'm not sure why SK would choose to track instead of kill.

[Nephthys]

Why? I'd like to see the reasons for your reads.

Go back and so the last game I played. I had a gut read wrong, tried to make a case and ended up tunneling and nearly costing town the game before I realized and ended on myself.

Well, I am not saying you need to try to make a case. But you should be able to provide your reasons for thinking the way you do without much effort. I'm not asking you to do something extra and "try to make a case." Just share the reasons swirling in your head right now.

Three benefits of this: (1) others can see your reasons, and maybe be convinced by them, (2) others can see your reasons, and talk to you about them, and maybe help inform your view, (3) others can see your thought process and sort your alignment.

It's pretty important. I'm not saying build a case if you don't want to. Just share your thinking as it is now.

Most of what I pay attention to most people ignore or find irrelevant.

I've previously caught Vecna from using words that were too long. I caught yav on what he didn't reply to.

No one else gives a shit. If you want an exmaple look at my logic re teacon. To me that is a massive red flag.

[xorxes]

There are only three possible scenarios on what happened this night:

1) darg was killed by Mafia day kill, SK killed Carl, Mafia tried killing SK
2) darg was killed by Mafia day kill, SK killed Carl, Mafia tried killing whoever darg jailed
3) darg was killed by Mafia day kill, SK tracked somebody, Mafia killed Carl

The 3rd option is the most likely in my opinion, but there's a decent chance either of these 3 scenarios occurred. Progress!!

Assuming flavor is meaningful, which it seems to be, that seems correct, plus:

4) darg was killed by Mafia day kill, SK was jailed, Mafia killed Carl

Since Durga was jailed, then (2) means she was the NK target and (4) means she is SK. In either case she is not Mafia.

If (1), Mafia know who the SK is.

(3) is the least informative, but I'm not sure why SK would choose to track instead of kill.

Actually, there's also:

5) darg was killed by Mafia day kill, SK was roleblocked, Mafia killed Carl

which would make me the SK, which I'm not.

[Durga]

there is also

a) darg killed by car bomb, mafia killed Carl, SK targetted me/darg/Carl

i can't see why they would track either tbh, why is that a power?

regardless, we won't know. and i'm not sure what difference it makes