Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[ND]

Okay. Real quick before I dive back into this game for some search.

1. I don't think the situation D1 is applicable. Like, why do you have to choose at all? Why vote for someone you believe will flip town as you have said?

"Yes, and you seem to have ignored the repeated times I explained why I voted bozo even though I felt he was more likely to be town than scum. But carry on, that contradicts your scum read." (Chippie)

If I thought someone had a good chance of flipping town then I would try to prevent the vote and wouldn't vote for them. I would never consign someone to death just to be on the major wagon. That's not pro-town or town indicative. That is very scum indicative.

2. NK stuff. Hard to say really. In a game such as this with multiple kills possible it's hard to really gauge reasons or how the kills occurred or if multiple factions were even involved, etc. There are a number of potential solutions to it, but we could spend all day talking ourselves in circles over it with no answer. I don't really see how this is helpful. What is helpful, perhaps, is to examine Darg and Carl and see their interactions and also their reads.

[FlaviusAetius]

So I'm hearing lynch Foxcastle?

I don't know - I just don't understand how people can possibly think that we had a choice between mislynching bozo and lynching someone else who we actually thought was scum.

We damn tried, idiots. We waited until the last 2-3 minutes to change our vote to bozo, that's how damn long we hung out to try lynching actual scum!

FACTS

[TrPrado]

Or they thought Carl would've led the way on ##VOTE FOXCASTLE

+

Didn't Carl start badmouthing Fox near the end of the night? Most likely too late for the Mafia NK to be changed?

He spent the whole night throwing suspicion on Fox.

+

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... 0Tuckerson

CTRL+F for "Fox" and he talks a decent amount about how he was going to push Fox and dargo this phase

==?

Why is it important to understand the last words of a D1 mislynch?

These are not exactly the same things, but this looks like TrPrado opportunistically using the reads of a dead townie to push a lynch on me, and then turning around and harshing on ND for the same thing.

##VOTE TRPRADO while I go take a real look.

It’s called a segue. I also said reading into night kills is an exercise in futility. I stand by everything I say.

[ChippeRock]

Or they thought Carl would've led the way on ##VOTE FOXCASTLE

+

Didn't Carl start badmouthing Fox near the end of the night? Most likely too late for the Mafia NK to be changed?

He spent the whole night throwing suspicion on Fox.

+

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... 0Tuckerson

CTRL+F for "Fox" and he talks a decent amount about how he was going to push Fox and dargo this phase

==?

Why is it important to understand the last words of a D1 mislynch?

These are not exactly the same things, but this looks like TrPrado opportunistically using the reads of a dead townie to push a lynch on me, and then turning around and harshing on ND for the same thing.

##VOTE TRPRADO while I go take a real look.

He's using the reads of a dead townie to explain why he would get NKed by scum. There's a semi-significant difference there.

[ChippeRock]

Okay. Real quick before I dive back into this game for some search.

1. I don't think the situation D1 is applicable. Like, why do you have to choose at all? Why vote for someone you believe will flip town as you have said?

"Yes, and you seem to have ignored the repeated times I explained why I voted bozo even though I felt he was more likely to be town than scum. But carry on, that contradicts your scum read." (Chippie)

If I thought someone had a good chance of flipping town then I would try to prevent the vote and wouldn't vote for them. I would never consign someone to death just to be on the major wagon. That's not pro-town or town indicative. That is very scum indicative.

2. NK stuff. Hard to say really. In a game such as this with multiple kills possible it's hard to really gauge reasons or how the kills occurred or if multiple factions were even involved, etc. There are a number of potential solutions to it, but we could spend all day talking ourselves in circles over it with no answer. I don't really see how this is helpful. What is helpful, perhaps, is to examine Darg and Carl and see their interactions and also their reads.

Except one player had a better chance of flipping town than the other. Simple statistics.

[Foxcastle]

Or they thought Carl would've led the way on ##VOTE FOXCASTLE

+

He spent the whole night throwing suspicion on Fox.

+

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... 0Tuckerson

CTRL+F for "Fox" and he talks a decent amount about how he was going to push Fox and dargo this phase

==?

Why is it important to understand the last words of a D1 mislynch?

These are not exactly the same things, but this looks like TrPrado opportunistically using the reads of a dead townie to push a lynch on me, and then turning around and harshing on ND for the same thing.

##VOTE TRPRADO while I go take a real look.

It’s called a segue. I also said reading into night kills is an exercise in futility. I stand by everything I say.

While you're correct about what you said, I'm not talking about reading into the NK, though. You're using a dead player's reads to push a case. Those are two different things. But why the contradiction with ND using a dead player's reads to push a case?

[FlaviusAetius]

(Sorry, I had this ready to go for as soon as Carl replied, but then got sucked into a work thing.)

You may be speaking personally, but Carl was certainly trying to avoid the Flavius lynch more than anything else we’ll before EOD. What do you think of that?

You don't mind providing the messages that indicate Carl was trying to avoid Flav's lynch anything else, do you?

As I recall, Carl put a lot of effort into getting the Prado wagon rolling, but I don't seem to recall avoiding Flav's lynch was a greater priority to him than lynching Prado. But perhaps I'm wrong, if you don't mind providing those messages that prove what you just stated, perhaps we can come to an agreement on Carl's motivations.

These are all his posts from page 63 (93 minutes out) to EOD.

He starts off with:

@all: What the fuck are you doing? How did Flavius end up in the lead?

I very much consider that to be "defending Flavius" and not "pushing TrPrado". He only once makes a short case that Flavius is innocent, and mostly just expresses repeated exasperation at the Flavius wagon and calls on Flavius voters to explain themselves.

There are 38 posts there. About a dozen of them include some sort of pushback on the Flavius lynch. He digs in on Bozo and engages with several folks. But I cannot find any post in there where he actually tries to get TrPrado lynched.

Going back farther, I cannot see any point where he actually tries to make a case that TrPrado is scum. He votes for him a couple times as he switches around, but never gives any indications. In fact, the post immediately prior to when he shows up and starts defending Flavius at EOD includes:

[snip]
COOL: Confident these people are town.

Squigs44
Balki Bartokomous
ChippeRock
TrPrado
Carl Tuckerson
FlaviusAetius
[snip]

So my main question from all of this is why Chippe and TrPrado are grossly misrepresenting Carl here.

If Carl was the NK by the mafia, then there is no way Fox is putting this much effort at the EoN and is mafia.
Now we just need to find a reason why mafia would kill Carl over Tom, and we cleared Fox.
@Fox this is what is going to determine for me whether your mafia or not

[Foxcastle]

Or they thought Carl would've led the way on ##VOTE FOXCASTLE

+

He spent the whole night throwing suspicion on Fox.

+

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... 0Tuckerson

CTRL+F for "Fox" and he talks a decent amount about how he was going to push Fox and dargo this phase

==?

Why is it important to understand the last words of a D1 mislynch?

These are not exactly the same things, but this looks like TrPrado opportunistically using the reads of a dead townie to push a lynch on me, and then turning around and harshing on ND for the same thing.

##VOTE TRPRADO while I go take a real look.

He's using the reads of a dead townie to explain why he would get NKed by scum. There's a semi-significant difference there.

He cast a vote on me for this. That's not an explanation, that's an action.

[FlaviusAetius]

##vote neph

oh i'm sure sure about this one.

foxy is probably scum too

Read what I just said

[Squigs44]

Hold up... I am re-reading Flavius again, and came across this:

@Squigs My dad does this all the time.
MISTAKES DO NOT EQUAL LIES.
I clearly thought you thought that foxcastle was scum, you don't have to jump to conclusions and just call me a liar. Obviously, you could check that real quick, anyone could why even just call me a liar like that?

Anyways I also agree foxcastle is a townsperson
TrPrado, on the other hand, is probably scum

You lied. That is a confirmable fact. It may have been a mistaken lie with no ill intent, but it was a lie nonetheless. You are being very defensive this game though

First game Im being accused of being scum :shrugs:

But you were lynched in Lylo last game. How in the world were you lynched without being being accused of scum?

Flav lied, was accused of lying, then tells another lie. Or was this just another "mistake"?

[Nephthys]

We up to page 40 bois

Up to page 30 was boring

Then shizz gets spicy
Et sus
Balki sus
Durga good
Liking Percy
Looking into Rdr

When and why did you start town reading me? Why did you want to save me EOD1 if you were so far behind and the last thing you said was you scumread me?

Did I save you? I voted with 1 min to go when Flav/Bozo were tied. I've already said I didn't want either of them to die but also didn't want a tie.

[FlaviusAetius]

As a matter of fact I just got to this part in my analysis post

Oh.
My.
GOD

Explain PLEASE why you lied about all of that

[Squigs44]

(Sorry, I had this ready to go for as soon as Carl replied, but then got sucked into a work thing.)

You don't mind providing the messages that indicate Carl was trying to avoid Flav's lynch anything else, do you?

As I recall, Carl put a lot of effort into getting the Prado wagon rolling, but I don't seem to recall avoiding Flav's lynch was a greater priority to him than lynching Prado. But perhaps I'm wrong, if you don't mind providing those messages that prove what you just stated, perhaps we can come to an agreement on Carl's motivations.

These are all his posts from page 63 (93 minutes out) to EOD.

He starts off with:

@all: What the fuck are you doing? How did Flavius end up in the lead?

I very much consider that to be "defending Flavius" and not "pushing TrPrado". He only once makes a short case that Flavius is innocent, and mostly just expresses repeated exasperation at the Flavius wagon and calls on Flavius voters to explain themselves.

There are 38 posts there. About a dozen of them include some sort of pushback on the Flavius lynch. He digs in on Bozo and engages with several folks. But I cannot find any post in there where he actually tries to get TrPrado lynched.

Going back farther, I cannot see any point where he actually tries to make a case that TrPrado is scum. He votes for him a couple times as he switches around, but never gives any indications. In fact, the post immediately prior to when he shows up and starts defending Flavius at EOD includes:

[snip]
COOL: Confident these people are town.

Squigs44
Balki Bartokomous
ChippeRock
TrPrado
Carl Tuckerson
FlaviusAetius
[snip]

So my main question from all of this is why Chippe and TrPrado are grossly misrepresenting Carl here.

If Carl was the NK by the mafia, then there is no way Fox is putting this much effort at the EoN and is mafia.
Now we just need to find a reason why mafia would kill Carl over Tom, and we cleared Fox.
@Fox this is what is going to determine for me whether your mafia or not

I'm confused... where did Tom come into the picture?

[Squigs44]

Oh.
My.
GOD

Explain PLEASE why you lied about all of that

Just for your reaction

[FlaviusAetius]

Hold up... I am re-reading Flavius again, and came across this:

You lied. That is a confirmable fact. It may have been a mistaken lie with no ill intent, but it was a lie nonetheless. You are being very defensive this game though

First game Im being accused of being scum :shrugs:

But you were lynched in Lylo last game. How in the world were you lynched without being being accused of scum?

Flav lied, was accused of lying, then tells another lie. Or was this just another "mistake"?

It was more so no one knew who was scum and who wasnt, and the teacon v xorxes ordeal just made the entire game unsolvable unless teacon and xorxes died, teacon survived until lylo

[ChippeRock]

Hold up... I am re-reading Flavius again, and came across this:

You lied. That is a confirmable fact. It may have been a mistaken lie with no ill intent, but it was a lie nonetheless. You are being very defensive this game though

First game Im being accused of being scum :shrugs:

But you were lynched in Lylo last game. How in the world were you lynched without being being accused of scum?

Flav lied, was accused of lying, then tells another lie. Or was this just another "mistake"?

Those first hours when nothing of significant interest happens are the only thing that you can really lynch Flav on... I think that's overreacting and I really disliked his wagon.

[FlaviusAetius]

Explain PLEASE why you lied about all of that

Just for your reaction

WHAT?
That makes no sense whatsoever, you had no idea I was going to think what you did was bad(the gut reactions) then love what your 'dude' did after you explained it, and then start doing it myself

[FlaviusAetius]

##GM Call
peterbot doesnt let me look at any Night 1 posts
##Call GM
^not sure how to do it hopefully one of those work

[FlaviusAetius]

Nevermind I dont know how it just popped it and I didnt see it before

[ChippeRock]

##GM Call
peterbot doesnt let me look at any Night 1 posts
##Call GM
^not sure how to do it hopefully one of those work

Here ya go. Those stupid wingdings though really fucked w/ peterbot.