Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[Foxcastle]

This is what I get for not reading flavor. Usually flavor doesn't reveal types of kills like that. The fact that the car bomb is confirmed used makes me think that someone on the chopping block was mafia.

Great catch. Maybe Flavius used it bcz he thought he was going to die!

To expand... why else would the assassin use their day kill so early? It has huge end-game potential, so using it early is a throwaway.

WIFOM: the scum want us to think that so we'll mislynch Flavius.

[ChippeRock]

I think a re-read of Crusader will be helpful. Im going to block some time out for that.

A re-read?? Please tell me this is a joke!

What about this makes you think it is a joke?

Seems very clear that someone did not read up on what happened at the EoN.

[xorxes]

What makes you think you wouldn't be?

We have a lynch (which is unlikely considering I have no vote, but not impossible) and possibly three NKs. And I was NKed N1 last game, so it's not that unlikely.

On the one hand, do experienced players who roll scum ever actually base arguments on "if I'm alive"? I mean, okay, Xorxes. Tom (not this game).

True, I always say that when I'm scum.

I say it when I'm town too though, and I think many people do, because a lot of times when someone doesn't hedge like that some smartass comes up with "how can you be so sure you will be alive tomorrow?".

Maybe Balki, but I don't think he goes in for that. And of course, newbies. No offense, Rdrivera, but I don't think you got NK'd last game because you were a threat to scum, but because there was a process of elimination and the usual threats to scum were too busy tearing town apart, and you were what was left.

On the other hand, that's a lot of ego, and I find it at odds with your play in this game. If you were really hacking at the game thread and pushing to solve, maybe. But you're in the bottom half of posters and you haven't really put much content up.

My point is, I don't understand this mindset, and I want to think about it.

Do you still think that was scummy?

[FlaviusAetius]

Thanks again, chippe...
But you aren't answering my question.
I see HOW it developed.
But your first sentence is where my issue is.
I see all that you tried to do to not lynch Flav. I see that bozo wasn't your top choice.
But I don't get WHY you 'needed' to save Flav.
"Because I didn't think he was scum" doesn't help me.
THIS much effort implies more surety than I think is possible this early.

Im gonna be 100% honest, we *needed* to save me, because I didnt want to die
I knew both me and bozo are town, I didnt want to die though
So I tried for the last two hours to get TrPrado lynched, when I got on
We had more than enough time to do it, but I wasnt convincing anyone
Carl kept bouncing back and forth and finally stuck to his guns with TrPrado
we picked up connor and at the end Tom too
I think the four of them all switched over to bozo, instead of letting me die, was because we all wanted to kill TrPrado.
Im not going to put words in their mouths but, no one needs to be kidding yourself, if you thought bozo was a scum, you tried to lynch a lurker.
I believe if we had an extra hour we could have lynched TrPrado, which is why you should join us now.

[EspressoPatronum]

Great catch. Maybe Flavius used it bcz he thought he was going to die!

To expand... why else would the assassin use their day kill so early? It has huge end-game potential, so using it early is a throwaway.

WIFOM: the scum want us to think that so we'll mislynch Flavius.

On the one hand.... scum uses a potentially game-winning ability to get us to do a mislynch D2.
On the other hand.... the assassin is about to die and uses their amazing ability.

I'll take those odds.

[TrPrado]

He fact that everyone is very serious about delving into the meaning of the NK’s like we can solve it this early is giving me headache.

[EspressoPatronum]

He fact that everyone is very serious about delving into the meaning of the NK’s like we can solve it this early is giving me headache.

You wrote like 3 novels worth of wall post reads, but digging into the motivations of NKs is giving you a headache? For real?

[ChippeRock]

This is what I get for not reading flavor. Usually flavor doesn't reveal types of kills like that. The fact that the car bomb is confirmed used makes me think that someone on the chopping block was mafia.

Great catch. Maybe Flavius used it bcz he thought he was going to die!

To expand... why else would the assassin use their day kill so early? It has huge end-game potential, so using it early is a throwaway.

I have to agree with you. Using the day kill so early is quite suspicious. But, Mafia couldn't communicate at the time (save for Secretary), and only 1 person (the Assassin) makes the decision to use the day kill. It's possible that the Assassin up and up straight up used it without conferring with his teammates - which would make it seem like scum probably received heat at one point or another - but I think more likely the Secretary ordered the Assassin to use his day kill - which also leads credence to the idea that scum was taking heat.

Although Flav might be the most likely person in question that was receiving heat, it really could be anybody (unless the day kill was done in the last hour).

Great catch. Maybe Flavius used it bcz he thought he was going to die!

To expand... why else would the assassin use their day kill so early? It has huge end-game potential, so using it early is a throwaway.

WIFOM: the scum want us to think that so we'll mislynch Flavius.

Possible, but it wasn't apparent until the last minutes of the day that Flav wouldn't get lynched at EoD1 - I also can't see them putting so much effort into getting Flav lynched when they don't know if he is a Town w/ PR.

[FlaviusAetius]

Oh and @Chippie I think an ND and Durga and rdrivera wagon is maybe a good idea because they refuse to get the blinders off their eyes from you. But let's stick to TrPrado, please? We can't lose focus. All this guy has been doing is making big posts then jumping off, makes no sense
Listen, a CHIPPIE WAGON was already a thing.
We staved that off and explained what he was doing, you three are pretending like that never happened

[Foxcastle]

Maybe Balki, but I don't think he goes in for that. And of course, newbies. No offense, Rdrivera, but I don't think you got NK'd last game because you were a threat to scum, but because there was a process of elimination and the usual threats to scum were too busy tearing town apart, and you were what was left.

On the other hand, that's a lot of ego, and I find it at odds with your play in this game. If you were really hacking at the game thread and pushing to solve, maybe. But you're in the bottom half of posters and you haven't really put much content up.

My point is, I don't understand this mindset, and I want to think about it.

Do you still think that was scummy?

Maybe, but that's not enough for a case and I'm already needing to look closer at rdrivera. But I'll also say I was kinda being a bitch to rdrivera to see if I could get him riled up to see what would happen. Same with ND earlier. I am perhaps not good enough to be starting drama to be playing that game, though.

[xorxes]

I'd believe that Bozo was just irritated at Chippe's ploy in the first 24 hours and the whole nonsense with the PM business, and voted Chippe to try to get him punted (i.e., policy lynch), but is too discreet to say that.

I think Bozo is a better player than he's been in this game (especially as scum/third party), and that makes me think he's town.

This comment is weird. bozo is very good as town, I can't see how thinking he was playing badly would lead you to believe he was town.

[ChippeRock]

I'd believe that Bozo was just irritated at Chippe's ploy in the first 24 hours and the whole nonsense with the PM business, and voted Chippe to try to get him punted (i.e., policy lynch), but is too discreet to say that.

I think Bozo is a better player than he's been in this game (especially as scum/third party), and that makes me think he's town.

This comment is weird. bozo is very good as town, I can't see how thinking he was playing badly would lead you to believe he was town.

I think even I lost some brain cells trying to understand that logic...

[Foxcastle]

I'd believe that Bozo was just irritated at Chippe's ploy in the first 24 hours and the whole nonsense with the PM business, and voted Chippe to try to get him punted (i.e., policy lynch), but is too discreet to say that.

I think Bozo is a better player than he's been in this game (especially as scum/third party), and that makes me think he's town.

This comment is weird. bozo is very good as town, I can't see how thinking he was playing badly would lead you to believe he was town.

I think there is a motive for scum to play better because they need to blend it, not matter what their feelings on the game are. So while some people do have scum personas that look like bad play, in general I think that scum try to play better, whereas town do not have that motivator structurally.

[Foxcastle]

I'd believe that Bozo was just irritated at Chippe's ploy in the first 24 hours and the whole nonsense with the PM business, and voted Chippe to try to get him punted (i.e., policy lynch), but is too discreet to say that.

I think Bozo is a better player than he's been in this game (especially as scum/third party), and that makes me think he's town.

This comment is weird. bozo is very good as town, I can't see how thinking he was playing badly would lead you to believe he was town.

I think even I lost some brain cells trying to understand that logic...

Your use of the plural is optimistic.

[xorxes]

I REPEAT:

@Flavius voters: Why would scum actively choose not to vote their counterwagon, who is a lurker and an easy lynch, and instead try to go after a more active player with less momentum on his side, this close to deadline?

It's obvious if you think about it.

Why be so coy about this? Isn't it more helpful to give a clear answer, especially at this stage when decisions are being made (half an hour before EOD)?

[Squigs44]

Great catch. Maybe Flavius used it bcz he thought he was going to die!

To expand... why else would the assassin use their day kill so early? It has huge end-game potential, so using it early is a throwaway.

WIFOM: the scum want us to think that so we'll mislynch Flavius.

True, there are several reasons why someone not on the chopping block would have used it, but after thinking both Flav and TrPrado were town, this makes me less certain since the optimal play as mafia is to hold it until you really need to use it.

[Foxcastle]

Thanks again, chippe...
But you aren't answering my question.
I see HOW it developed.
But your first sentence is where my issue is.
I see all that you tried to do to not lynch Flav. I see that bozo wasn't your top choice.
But I don't get WHY you 'needed' to save Flav.
"Because I didn't think he was scum" doesn't help me.
THIS much effort implies more surety than I think is possible this early.

Im gonna be 100% honest, we *needed* to save me, because I didnt want to die
I knew both me and bozo are town, I didnt want to die though
So I tried for the last two hours to get TrPrado lynched, when I got on
We had more than enough time to do it, but I wasnt convincing anyone
Carl kept bouncing back and forth and finally stuck to his guns with TrPrado
we picked up connor and at the end Tom too
I think the four of them all switched over to bozo, instead of letting me die, was because we all wanted to kill TrPrado.
Im not going to put words in their mouths but, no one needs to be kidding yourself, if you thought bozo was a scum, you tried to lynch a lurker.
I believe if we had an extra hour we could have lynched TrPrado, which is why you should join us now.

I don't think he's going to join you...

[FlaviusAetius]

Hey Carl Tuckerson, what do you think of Chippe's characterization of how you started the TrPrado wagon?

He most certainly did not, that was >me<
Also
Just because someone puts a lot of effort into this game, does not AUTOMATICALLY make them the town. Get that out of your minds, its too easy to just say this, and frankly lazy,
Its going to be a mix of lurkers and active people

[ChippeRock]

Oh and @Chippie I think an ND and Durga and rdrivera wagon is maybe a good idea because they refuse to get the blinders off their eyes from you. But let's stick to TrPrado, please? We can't lose focus. All this guy has been doing is making big posts then jumping off, makes no sense
Listen, a CHIPPIE WAGON was already a thing.
We staved that off and explained what he was doing, you three are pretending like that never happened

I'm parking on ND (my biggest D1 scumread) until I finish my re-evaluation of the board. If I still think Prado's scum, and my ND wagon isn't going anywhere, perhaps I'll switch again (or maybe I'll switch to my 2nd best scumread - which is what Prado is right now, but perhaps that'll change).

[ChippeRock]

This comment is weird. bozo is very good as town, I can't see how thinking he was playing badly would lead you to believe he was town.

I think even I lost some brain cells trying to understand that logic...

Your use of the plural is optimistic.

Yeah, it's pretty optimistic that I only lost some brain cells trying to understand your logic.