Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[ChippeRock]

I can’t imagine anyone could have missed how vehemently Carl was trying to not get Flav lynched

Enlighten me, show me the quotes please.

[Foxcastle]

I can’t imagine anyone could have missed how vehemently Carl was trying to not get Flav lynched

Enlighten me, show me the quotes please.

I’d like to hear from Carl first, please. Since this is essentially an accusation against him. He should be able to respond.

[Percy Williams]

Gosh, I made it to 90, and y'all need therapists and anger management. I'll catch up completely approximately 6 hours from now.

So Percy... is all this anger and absolutism and caps alignment indicative?

I Don't think so... you can get angry as righteous frustrated town, or defensive and Angry as scum. Anger can help cover up for a lack of actually contributing, but people also just get angry easily. I don't think we can draw conclusions from their irate levels.

[Carl Tuckerson]

φ My opinion, as someone who was in the thick of EOD: our hand was forced on bozo being the alternative because there were three people parked on him who were either absent for EOD or unwilling to move. Those people were damo666, et, and Percy Williams.

I don't like this. Three votes in a game of 23 players does not force your hand. Seems like reverse justification.

And Percy is the only one who was actually absent. Et and Damo were present but lurking.

Scum post.
It beggars belief that you could have read EOD and concluded this in good faith.
The ratio of votes stuck to total votes alone doesn't come close to telling the story. It's the kind of stat you would throw out to sound like a gotcha instead of digging into the story further. "Three votes in a game of 23 players" certainly can force your hand when the wagon you don't want lynched has seven votes, the wagon you want lynched has four, and another wagon you don't particularly like but prefer to the main wagon has three, and there's ten minutes left in the day.

Hey Carl Tuckerson, what do you think of Chippe's characterization of how you started the TrPrado wagon?

Where could this question possibly be going?

[Foxcastle]

Hey Carl Tuckerson, what do you think of Chippe's characterization of how you started the TrPrado wagon?

Where could this question possibly be going?

Dunno, I’m curious to see myself.

[Percy Williams]

So, I finally caught up, and am writing a questions list, but don't want to share it until day 2, to prevent The scum team from choosing a better NK. To clarify, if my questions end up making a town look scummy (because I haven't really made wonderful questions in any past games yet) then posting the questions now could make the scum team not lynch that person.

[Foxcastle]

I really would like your perspective on my question, Carl.

[Carl Tuckerson]

I really would like your perspective on my question, Carl.

Flavius was the most active pusher of the TrPrado wagon near EOD. I had called for it before, but my opinion on TrPrado wavered throughout the day because of what I perceived to be significant effort on his part in posting his d1 material. I recounted this not that long ago in a response to ND.
I have characterized my efforts as predominantly being about protecting Flavius, who I'm convinced is town, from what I saw to be an obvious mislynch with several bad actors, you included, making bad votes to drive.

[Carl Tuckerson]

I've explained repeatedly why we saved Flav - several have given similar explanations. Did you read my response to Balki's questions?

Look, there were 7 votes on Flav, and 3-4 on bozo. 90% of those players were offline, and it was clear none of them were going to switch wagons. Those that had their votes on 3rd party wagons tended to be offline, and those that did come online only did so in the very last minutes when it was too late to figure out whom they were planning to vote.

Due to that inflexibility, my block of 4 - after originally trying to get Prado lynched - switched from Prado to bozo, 1) because the Prado wagon wasn't going anywhere and the Flav wagon still had a big lead and 2) because bozo's voters were all offline, so they weren't going to make Prado's wagon the counterwagon to Flav's lynch and 3) although all 4 of us didn't read bozo as our biggest scum targets (a good portion of us read him as town), we thought lynching Flav was an obvious mislynch, and there was a greater chance of mislynching Flav than mislynching bozo.

I'm not going to try offering up an explanation for others outside of my group of 4, but that was our group's general motivation (stated above).

If bozo's wagon had been online, I hope we would of been able to get them onto Prado's wagon - but since such a huge amount of people were offline/inflexible at EoD, we had to make do with what we had and lynch the most scummy of the two.

IMPORTANT NOTE: At the time my group of 4 switched from Prado to bozo, we DID NOT know that others would switch their vote. As I recall, Tom, rdrivera, & Neph all showed up really last minute and unexpectedly (to the 4 of us) and switched their vote to bozo.

We were not aware we might of had the votes to get a Prado wagon lynched, because Tom, rdrivera, & Neph all just showed up last minute, and they didn't really show many indications that they were going to switch their vote (well rdrivera showed he would vote bozo, but than he switched his vote due to misinformation from Flav - and we weren't sure if he would switch it back).

It's easy to say in hindsight that we could of gotten another wagon who we felt more confidently was scum lynched - but we waited until the last 2 minutes to try to rally up support for the Prado wagon. And only changed our votes to bozo because, even though we all felt bozo was probably town, he was less likely to be town than Flav.

This does not strike me as townie.

It's literally what happened.

I'm getting real fuckin sick of your drive-by comments when you obviously haven't read a lick of EOD.
You are not acting in good faith.

[TrPrado]

So I'm hearing lynch Foxcastle?

[ChippeRock]

So I'm hearing lynch Foxcastle?

I don't know - I just don't understand how people can possibly think that we had a choice between mislynching bozo and lynching someone else who we actually thought was scum.

We damn tried, idiots. We waited until the last 2-3 minutes to change our vote to bozo, that's how damn long we hung out to try lynching actual scum!

[TrPrado]

I've explained repeatedly why we saved Flav - several have given similar explanations. Did you read my response to Balki's questions?

snip

This does not strike me as townie.

I agree with Carl's assessment of this post, but I also feel that there are questions to ask.

Why would scum admit to this? Why would scum take credit for "leading" a group of people onto bozo and getting him lynched? What's the scum motivation behind Chippe here?

[ChippeRock]

So I'm hearing lynch Foxcastle?

I don't know - I just don't understand how people can possibly think that we had a choice between mislynching bozo and lynching someone else who we actually thought was scum.

We damn tried, idiots. We waited until the last 2-3 minutes to change our vote to bozo, that's how damn long we hung out to try lynching actual scum!

Anybody that fails to understand how 7 inflexible votes on Flav and 3 inflexible votes on bozo could of forced us to lynch the most scummy of our two town reads is genuinely an idiot. Hindsight is 20/20, too bad we didn't know that two would be changing their votes to our wagon and 1 would flip from Flav to bozo.

[Squigs44]

Hey y'all.

Doubt I'll die but just in case, wanted to sneak away from work to post my top suspects and townreads:

Suspects:
Nephthys
Tom Bomb

Moscow


People that I want to look into more:
FoxCastle
Xorxes
Balki
Darg


Townleans:
Carl
Durga

Chippe

And of course there's all the lurkers and the all-caps-blowhards that need to be sorted through

[ChippeRock]

Tom, do you mind quoting the message that contained your explanation for your flip to bozo at the last possible minute?

[Carl Tuckerson]

Since we're getting close to EON, just in case... this is a summary of how I'm feeling about the situation. It's accurate up to now but as always I reserve the right to change my mind if I'm not killed and subsequent events give me cause to do so, which will probably happen.

1. Flavius is town. I'm sure you slowpokes are going to waste Day 2 hanging him "for information" because for some reason these so-called "experienced players" can't figure out something very obvious. If you would dig into the reasons why people voted for Flavius you'd see they really don't stack up at all. But you won't, you'll waste Day 2 mislynching him after I'm killed.

2. ChippeRock is town. I get that his style grates some people. It's grated me at times. But we don't really have the breathing room to go after people for emotional reasons, and I doubt anybody can build a case on him that doesn't ultimately add up to a criticism of his play style.

3. dargorygel and Foxcastle are primo examples of people who voted for Flavius for reasons that don't stack up at all. These are the people you need to hang.

4. I haven't had time to dig into TrPrado's alleged actual reads list but I am a bit disappointed no one else took the time to do so either. Please do. I remain unsure what to make of him; my townreads seem to think he's mafia but I still have trouble squaring the circle of all the time he spent on his posts. I realize the "effort" bit is not only totally WIFOM but also that my repeated towncred for it incentivizes him to do it as mafia but I'm not sure how to get out of this loop and I'd appreciate some help on this, especially if someone digs into his reads and finds problems.

5. Make sure Durga, Tom, and xorxes do something strong and pro-town. I've wavered on my reads on Durga and Tom and I don't know what to do with xorxes at all. I hear they're "good." Make them prove it. In particular, make Durga do something about Nephthys if she doesn't proactively do it herself, she was very hype about this lynch and it was the only interesting off-wagon thing I remember.

[Carl Tuckerson]

So I'm hearing lynch Foxcastle?

I don't know - I just don't understand how people can possibly think that we had a choice between mislynching bozo and lynching someone else who we actually thought was scum.

We damn tried, idiots. We waited until the last 2-3 minutes to change our vote to bozo, that's how damn long we hung out to try lynching actual scum!

Anybody that fails to understand how 7 inflexible votes on Flav and 3 inflexible votes on bozo could of forced us to lynch the most scummy of our two town reads is genuinely an idiot. Hindsight is 20/20, too bad we didn't know that two would be changing their votes to our wagon and 1 would flip from Flav to bozo.

Even worse, just because people moved to bozo late doesn't mean that they would have moved to Prado or someone else if we'd decided to stay the course. I'm not sure which of our late arrivals voted bozo for sake of killing bozo or for sake of saving Flavius or for sake of something else.
It's fairly safe to assume those people wouldn't vote Prado, or else they'd have done it.

[worcej]

GM Note:
This EON will take a little bit of time to process. Please be patient once it ends.

[ChippeRock]

GM Note:
This EON will take a little bit of time to process. Please be patient once it ends.

##CALL GM

Cruaader's identity is being revealed as well right?

[ChippeRock]

GM Note:
This EON will take a little bit of time to process. Please be patient once it ends.

##CALL GM

Cruaader's identity is being revealed as well right?

Or was a replacement found?