Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[xorxes]

Don't address it than. But I hope others will take note and ask you about it.

Chippe, you made your point. Stop spamming the thread.

And I agree with Durga that if Flavius is town then must scum just sit comfortably in any wagon they were.

If Flavius is town, I would expect at least half, if not two-thirds, of the scum team to have been on Bozo and Flavius today. Just an intuition.

Given that 18 of the 22 remaining players were on those two wagons, i'd say that's a very very good intuition.

[FlaviusAetius]

Hardly. I just can't tell if you're lying about what I said and did or if you're putting on a facade of your own.
I was very transparent with all of my moves and decisions and rationale.
I believe FlaviusAetius is town, and I saw multiple of my suspects on his wagon, with the bulk of the criticism directed at him based on something that had very little merit at that point in the game.
I said at the time that I didn't like the bozo wagon much, but that it was better than Flavius for certain. When it's late in the phase and you can't get your primary suspects lynched, and you're sure that someone is a mislynch, why wouldn't you try to stop the mislynch?

You're quoting a suspects list that was several hours old, which I posted before falling asleep. I got back to the game 2 hours before EOD and had a lot to catch up on and little time to do it.
What's "snake oil" about any of it?

Which criticisms are the ones you think people were using on Flavius?

Balki, Foxcastle and dargorygel all voted for Flavius based off the "Balki is a good player" nonsense. By the end of the first day that is flat out terrible reasoning for being on him. That argument was never very compelling and Flavius did a lot of solving work later in the day that I would have thought any reasonable person would recognize as outweighing an admittedly weird but not alignment indicative opening.
MoscowFleet's vote was virtually a policy lynch, calling Flavius "useless town or scum" with no explanation.
That was the backbone of the Flavius wagon.

That is the most ridiculous nonsense I've heard yet I cannot believe my wagon's BACKBONE WAS BASED OFF NOTHING

I didnt have time to read page 45-65 which I will do soon, but if this was the backbone of my wagon, then...
That makes the additional people on my wagon;
Tom
TrPrado
Durga
Foxcastle definetly was inactive at the end of the day, whyd he keep his vote on me??
I thought you were town, so who did you get convinced by @Foxcastle?

[TrPrado]

Hardly. I just can't tell if you're lying about what I said and did or if you're putting on a facade of your own.
I was very transparent with all of my moves and decisions and rationale.
I believe FlaviusAetius is town, and I saw multiple of my suspects on his wagon, with the bulk of the criticism directed at him based on something that had very little merit at that point in the game.
I said at the time that I didn't like the bozo wagon much, but that it was better than Flavius for certain. When it's late in the phase and you can't get your primary suspects lynched, and you're sure that someone is a mislynch, why wouldn't you try to stop the mislynch?

You're quoting a suspects list that was several hours old, which I posted before falling asleep. I got back to the game 2 hours before EOD and had a lot to catch up on and little time to do it.
What's "snake oil" about any of it?

Which criticisms are the ones you think people were using on Flavius?

Balki, Foxcastle and dargorygel all voted for Flavius based off the "Balki is a good player" nonsense. By the end of the first day that is flat out terrible reasoning for being on him. That argument was never very compelling and Flavius did a lot of solving work later in the day that I would have thought any reasonable person would recognize as outweighing an admittedly weird but not alignment indicative opening.
MoscowFleet's vote was virtually a policy lynch, calling Flavius "useless town or scum" with no explanation.
That was the backbone of the Flavius wagon.

Everyone stopped caring about the "smart and experienced" line ages ago. So I strongly disagree with your premise.

[TrPrado]

Like, literally the overview of his play has been scummy as hell. I've defended him on the "smart and experienced" and "list" points, and nobody else has looked at those in ages, certainly not the bulk of the wagon.

[ND]

-snip-

I voted for bozo because I didn't have the votes for Prado. Bozo was more likely to be scum than Flav, even though I thought it was Town v. Town. I made what was the statistically better choice in my mind.

Yes, since bozo, who made the comment as a player and not as a spectator who can view the God thread, is suddenly always right now that he's been lynched.

Whereas you & Prado jumped on top of Cruaader when all we knew at the time about him was he was playing his 1st game for playing the noob card - which is very scummy indeed - teacon jumped on after all of that had been revealed, and I don't blame him, I would have some suspicions about him too.

Cut the crap ND, yes, you have a job - but that doesn't justify lurking for 32 hours until called out for it, making a couple reads, voting, and than just going off the grid for the remaining 16 hours (save for the hour immediately after you spent arguing with me).

You've lurked the majority of the beginning of this game, used faulty logic (at a time when the information that would of justified such logic wasn't known to the public yet) to try to lynch someone, and overall not participated much in this game (not much to offer: a couple reads here and there, a couple insights here and there - but that's it).

Wrong. If you look at the post count. I was actually #12 in post count with 35 posts D1. Sorry I didn't have the time to make a 100+ posts I would if I could, but I did devote ample chunks of time to the game and did my best to post. I don't even know I am responding to this drivel though. I don't owe you a god damn thing. You are only focusing on me because you are lost in a shit tunnel. You aren't focusing on the other half of the players under me in post count because it doesn't fit your deceitful and bullshit narrative.

I already responded to your other point about Cruaader and you are completely false and deceitful on that. I don't care if he is new or not. I seriously do not give AF. It doesn't matter. His play was scum indicative and he got exposed and called out by me. When he flips you are going to be eating your own words.

[ChippeRock]

-snip-

I voted for bozo because I didn't have the votes for Prado. Bozo was more likely to be scum than Flav, even though I thought it was Town v. Town. I made what was the statistically better choice in my mind.

You voted for someone with the 'most votes' or at the very least a major wagon. You don't really concentrate on him at all until he becomes a thing. You don't vote your reads. You are not being honest.

Yes, since bozo, who made the comment as a player and not as a spectator who can view the God thread, is suddenly always right now that he's been lynched.

Don't even know what this means. His reads meta wise are very good.

Whereas you & Prado jumped on top of Cruaader when all we knew at the time about him was he was playing his 1st game for playing the noob card - which is very scummy indeed - teacon jumped on after all of that had been revealed, and I don't blame him, I would have some suspicions about him too.

1) This is bullshit. It doesn't matter if it was his first game or not. I assume people playing on this forum have 1) read the rules, 2) are committed to playing the game. I've posted my opinion on his play way back in the 50s and stand by it. I don't give AF if it was his first game or not. He didn't offer anything, he didn't give any opinions, he didn't do anything, he showed no care for solving the game, he showed no interest in solving anything, he probably never read the game as evident by his semicolon vote, he is absolute, absolute scum. 2) Double bullshit, teacon actually did get his vote in very early Teacon voted for crusader on page 49 shortly after me and TrPrado in the midst of the debate and before he had some experience was fully revealed. 3) Why are you trying to be deceitful concerning Teacon?

Not being deceitful moron, this post here before teacon's vote is a pretty clear indication from Cruaader this isn't his first game;

It would seem the town has missed my wonderful and foolproof wisdom How to Read New Players 101.

That implies I've never played Mafia or Werewolf before.

He is not scum, even if he was useless. He provided as much to this game as a third of the players here provided - absolutely jackshit. There's really nothing that separates him from the other lurkers other than his No Lynch vote and his heavily playing the N00b card.

[ND]

And it's not "such a reversal." I clearly explained myself.

Why are you acting in such bad faith right now?

I'll re-read the pages if I made an error then I will retract the point.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Which criticisms are the ones you think people were using on Flavius?

Balki, Foxcastle and dargorygel all voted for Flavius based off the "Balki is a good player" nonsense. By the end of the first day that is flat out terrible reasoning for being on him. That argument was never very compelling and Flavius did a lot of solving work later in the day that I would have thought any reasonable person would recognize as outweighing an admittedly weird but not alignment indicative opening.
MoscowFleet's vote was virtually a policy lynch, calling Flavius "useless town or scum" with no explanation.
That was the backbone of the Flavius wagon.

Everyone stopped caring about the "smart and experienced" line ages ago. So I strongly disagree with your premise.

Well, Balki never moved his vote, and said he found Flavius "nervous under pressure early in the game, and he hasn’t moved the needle since." Then referred me back to this:

I'll be away for a bit.

Is there really nobody else who suspects Flavius right now?

The nervous defensive posts I have in mind are:

Here, here, here, and here.

But perhaps what pings me more is this:

Ok but Squigs just said that the other player in his game was super accurate with giving early reads, I'm in the middle of giving mine

Here is what Squigs actually said about #squigssdude:

I leaned many new tactics over on MU for solving. I wanted to try some of them in this game. There is a guy over there who makes reads on the first post of every player in every game and is better than random accurate

I just wonder whether the #squigssdude radar was proving to be extra prescient in the early stages, and it psyched Flavius out a bit.

So that's at least one.

dargorygel's explanation of his vote for Flavius, made a few hours before EOD, primarily cited to Flavius's early behavior and the possibility of a mafia secretary:

Here are TrPrado's questions of me, with my replies/comments:
Who is your top scum choice?
Flavius. I don't like the early conversations about Balki. It tastes to me like a secretery told a newbie-ish scum, "be careful of Balki. He be clever." Would Flav have reacted then so obviously? idk, Wifom, but my gut says he's scum. The Flavius I read in the last game was more focused... this one seems skittish and jumps a lot.
I would stay on an MF lynch, if it looked like it was gaining traction. It's not. So I move to my top scumread.
##vote flaviusaerelius

I honestly don't see how you could forget this one, since he said so while responding to your questions about his top mafia choice. Did you care about the answer to that at all?

And as for Foxcastle:

"Doing nothing all day"? Come on. First of all, it's Day 1, so manage your expectations; and second of all, you can critique my play and my actions all you like, but it's silly to say I've done nothing.

If he's town, we done fucked up. But here's a fun fact: town mislynches on Day 1 a lot, so yeah, I'm just going for what I think is the best chance. If you've got a better, more ironclad case, go ahead and push it.

You really think it's the best chance that Flavius is non-Secretary mafia, the Secretary is experienced mafia and told Flavius that Balki was good, and Flavius blabbed it in the thread? That's your idea of "best chance"?

Yep. I think it's interesting enough that I want to see what happens. Do you have a more interesting scenario to tempt me with on someone else?

Posted roughly an hour before EOD.



So you can disagree with my premise all you like, but you're wrong.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Like, literally the overview of his play has been scummy as hell. I've defended him on the "smart and experienced" and "list" points, and nobody else has looked at those in ages, certainly not the bulk of the wagon.

No it hasn't.

I'm starting to think you're mafia. You're just throwing shit out there now to see what sticks, and your brazen disregard for dargorygel's answer to your questions is striking.
Have you even followed up on the answers you've been given?

[ChippeRock]

I voted for bozo because I didn't have the votes for Prado. Bozo was more likely to be scum than Flav, even though I thought it was Town v. Town. I made what was the statistically better choice in my mind.

Yes, since bozo, who made the comment as a player and not as a spectator who can view the God thread, is suddenly always right now that he's been lynched.

Whereas you & Prado jumped on top of Cruaader when all we knew at the time about him was he was playing his 1st game for playing the noob card - which is very scummy indeed - teacon jumped on after all of that had been revealed, and I don't blame him, I would have some suspicions about him too.

Cut the crap ND, yes, you have a job - but that doesn't justify lurking for 32 hours until called out for it, making a couple reads, voting, and than just going off the grid for the remaining 16 hours (save for the hour immediately after you spent arguing with me).

You've lurked the majority of the beginning of this game, used faulty logic (at a time when the information that would of justified such logic wasn't known to the public yet) to try to lynch someone, and overall not participated much in this game (not much to offer: a couple reads here and there, a couple insights here and there - but that's it).

Wrong. If you look at the post count. I was actually #12 in post count with 35 posts D1. Sorry I didn't have the time to make a 100+ posts I would if I could, but I did devote ample chunks of time to the game and did my best to post. I don't even know I am responding to this drivel though. I don't owe you a god damn thing. You are only focusing on me because you are lost in a shit tunnel. You aren't focusing on the other half of the players under me in post count because it doesn't fit your deceitful and bullshit narrative.

I already responded to your other point about Cruaader and you are completely false and deceitful on that. I don't care if he is new or not. I seriously do not give AF. It doesn't matter. His play was scum indicative and he got exposed and called out by me. When he flips you are going to be eating your own words.

That's fucking hilarious. Literally fucking 28 of your 35 posts were bitching, jokes, sarcasm, arguing with me, or insulting me. Dumb ass. Don't misconstrue your post count. That's like Durga arguing she provided a lot of material for town that first day.

[TrPrado]

I was saving reading the answers for tonight. I have another tab open. This one is more analysis than the reread was.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Balki, Foxcastle and dargorygel all voted for Flavius based off the "Balki is a good player" nonsense. By the end of the first day that is flat out terrible reasoning for being on him. That argument was never very compelling and Flavius did a lot of solving work later in the day that I would have thought any reasonable person would recognize as outweighing an admittedly weird but not alignment indicative opening.

Hey, the underlined above is not at all correct. I did not put stock in the "Secretary must have tipped Flavius off that Balki is so handsome" argument. I voted Flavius because I felt that the way he reacted to early pressure was a readable moment, and that his defensiveness and nervousness was more likely to be scum. I also found that Flavius's obsession with #squigssdude might very well be the result of Flavius getting psyched out by the #squigssdude prediction being correct about Flavius.

It is true that Flavius acted differently under pressure as the game moved along, and we did get more data during the final couple hours of the phase, but (1) not all moments and posts are as readable as others. Generally, reactions in the moment with less time to plan are more readable than others. That is why I put more stock in the early part of the game and the particular and immediate, in-thread reactions, and (2) I was not up for the last hour and just trying to check in quickly from my phone for the last couple of hours of the phase, so I did not have a lot of time to adjust based on the last part of the phase. I'll try to give him a careful look when I have time tonight.

[TrPrado]

Also the posts you quote give the answers of:

Flavius is obsessed with Squigs and it feels bad
Flavius feels skittish and jumps a lot instead of being focused
Answering a loaded question

[ND]

Point of fact: Teacon votes like a page after TrPrado. Chippie is trying to obscure this fact for some reason. It's weird. Also, no it was not evident where Cru was new or not on Page 49, just like it wasn't on Page 48.

Cruaader answers whether he is new or not on page 50 with: '"Im new in the sense that I haven't played mafia on this website at all, which means I don't know the context of 3/4 of the things you say. I'm not new in the sense that I know how to play mafia in general (the rules, how roles work, ect.)"

Then again confirms he isn't new with: "Let's just say I've had some realllly bad n1s recently" End of Page 50 and more later on next page.

HE ANSWERS THIS AFTER TEACON AND TRPRADO VOTE HIM IDIOT YOUR WHOLE PREMISE IS FAKE AF.

Yet, Chippie never questions Teacon, never focuses on him, doesn't care at all about Teacon.

WHY?

@Teacon: What do you think about this.

[FlaviusAetius]

I voted for bozo because I didn't have the votes for Prado. Bozo was more likely to be scum than Flav, even though I thought it was Town v. Town. I made what was the statistically better choice in my mind.

Yes, since bozo, who made the comment as a player and not as a spectator who can view the God thread, is suddenly always right now that he's been lynched.

Whereas you & Prado jumped on top of Cruaader when all we knew at the time about him was he was playing his 1st game for playing the noob card - which is very scummy indeed - teacon jumped on after all of that had been revealed, and I don't blame him, I would have some suspicions about him too.

Cut the crap ND, yes, you have a job - but that doesn't justify lurking for 32 hours until called out for it, making a couple reads, voting, and than just going off the grid for the remaining 16 hours (save for the hour immediately after you spent arguing with me).

You've lurked the majority of the beginning of this game, used faulty logic (at a time when the information that would of justified such logic wasn't known to the public yet) to try to lynch someone, and overall not participated much in this game (not much to offer: a couple reads here and there, a couple insights here and there - but that's it).

Wrong. If you look at the post count. I was actually #12 in post count with 35 posts D1. Sorry I didn't have the time to make a 100+ posts I would if I could, but I did devote ample chunks of time to the game and did my best to post. I don't even know I am responding to this drivel though. I don't owe you a god damn thing. You are only focusing on me because you are lost in a shit tunnel. You aren't focusing on the other half of the players under me in post count because it doesn't fit your deceitful and bullshit narrative.

I already responded to your other point about Cruaader and you are completely false and deceitful on that. I don't care if he is new or not. I seriously do not give AF. It doesn't matter. His play was scum indicative and he got exposed and called out by me. When he flips you are going to be eating your own words.

CRUSADER
POSTED
BARELY
ANYTHING
HOW ARE YOU EVEN ON HIM?

[ND]

@Carl: Refer me to the page with your explanation for the change in the vote list so I can see the context better please.

@Chippie: Your fake and deceitful. I seriously don't give AF about your analysis of my posts. Fuck off you insignificant idiot.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Jesus Christ that wasn't my point.
There is no meaningful distinction to me between the "Squigs's dude" bit and the "Balki is smart" bit. All of that shit was admittedly weird but not in the slightest bit alignment indicative and pales in comparison to the effort Flavius put together. Hanging on to that from the first hour of the game is suspicious to me when Flavius did so much more throughout the day and frankly put more effort into solving than most of the people voting for him.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Y'all are the experienced people right? How are you getting stuck on such inane bullshit?

[TrPrado]

Like, literally the overview of his play has been scummy as hell. I've defended him on the "smart and experienced" and "list" points, and nobody else has looked at those in ages, certainly not the bulk of the wagon.

No it hasn't.

I'm starting to think you're mafia. You're just throwing shit out there now to see what sticks, and your brazen disregard for dargorygel's answer to your questions is striking.
Have you even followed up on the answers you've been given?

Didn't you just try to kill me?

[Carl Tuckerson]

@Carl: Refer me to the page with your explanation for the change in the vote list so I can see the context better please.

@Chippie: Your fake and deceitful. I seriously don't give AF about your analysis of my posts. Fuck off you insignificant idiot.

Since I don't have the gravitas to get Durga killed... sigh...

##VOTE bozotheclown

I'm not big on this lynch. But I feel reasonably good about almost everyone on it (and damo I'm merely neutral about, not actively feeling bad about), and I think there are merits from what bozo has posted.

- The case on ChippeRock isn't good
- That's literally the only thing he is talking about when so much more is going on

Plus this creates a credible counterwagon against Flavius which is helpful.

^This is the exact post where I voted bozo and I explained why I did. Did you even read it?
I talked myself into thinking it was slightly better than a random shot in the dark which is how I usually view lurkers. I wanted to save Flavius who I was pretty sure was town.

[ChippeRock]

Point of fact: Teacon votes like a page after TrPrado. Chippie is trying to obscure this fact for some reason. It's weird. Also, no it was not evident where Cru was new or not on Page 49, just like it wasn't on Page 48.

Cruaader answers whether he is new or not on page 50 with: '"Im new in the sense that I haven't played mafia on this website at all, which means I don't know the context of 3/4 of the things you say. I'm not new in the sense that I know how to play mafia in general (the rules, how roles work, ect.)"

Then again confirms he isn't new with: "Let's just say I've had some realllly bad n1s recently" End of Page 50 and more later on next page.

HE ANSWERS THIS AFTER TEACON AND TRPRADO VOTE HIM IDIOT YOUR WHOLE PREMISE IS FAKE AF.

Yet, Chippie never questions Teacon, never focuses on him, doesn't care at all about Teacon.

WHY?

@Teacon: What do you think about this.

If this quote (posted before teacon's vote) is not a clear fucking hint he's played Mafia before, than you're officially fucking dumb:

It would seem the town has missed my wonderful and foolproof wisdom How to Read New Players 101.

That implies I've never played Mafia or Werewolf before.

Two birds with one stone as well! Clearly indicates Prado thought Cruaader was a new player when justifying his follow-the-leader scum vote on Cruaader.