Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[Nephthys]

Up to page 20,

Squigs is coming off an impressive showing on MU so is trying to solidify his standing over here. Town - Bro you're good, don't need to try power the thread.
Chippe is a fuckwit but likely town
Liking Carl
Espresso possible scum
Prado could be scum

[TrPrado]

PART II

Half of the top 10 posters were covered in Part 1, so this should be a little breezier. The first two pages are exclusively those 6 anyway.

dargorygel:

Could be the best mod, but not the most active poster. Asks what Flavius thinks Squigs is trying to accomplish with his gut reads. Says something about Flavius teaching Squigs how to play. Feels very sideline posty. He also seems to be trying to cheer Flavius on even in disagreement

hmmm.... that is not how I read Prado... he voted foxy for not wanting a joke phase... a sort of tradition in here... while he MIGHT have the motivation you suggest, seems to me like more of a joke response... But I appreciate the analysis... keep it up!

He's very pleasant. He says he appreciates Squigs for his gut reads then says he thinks teacon is putting in a better effort than Balki because teacon is asking questions of specific people, though the questions in question are a bit lackluster if I'm honest. The post starts with "First, an ABOUT teacon... then an @ teacon:" but the @teacon itself is pretty superficial "yes, I read the mini game... why? Don't you remember my fascinating and insightful comments in the godthread?"

He takes note of Flavius's list

Your list (#114) was gut-read, right?
Had you thought about doing this before squiggles did a similar, but more spread out thing? How do you feel about gut-reads? I mean... you obviously like em, since you used em. But do you feel like this is a good way to build cases?

then votes for him

I am... oddly argumentative, without direction...
I don't like his copying squigs. While I approve of squigs new experimental methodology, someone else copying it without the historical reasoning of squigs tastes like scumsoup. You get to list a few 'reads' that make you seem involved, without sticking your neck out.

##VOTE FLAVIUSAETIUS

This feels a little rushed. A lot of his votes seem very pleasing so this stands out a bit. Then he says he hates unvotes and I take it as a joke and joke back and he doesn't press further. In the Chippe debate he fell in on the side of Chippe should put up or shut up but was very indecisive about what it could mean and didn't vote for him.

Switches vote to MoscowFleet in an odd post.

I'ts Day 1... ezio is not here to suggest a no-lynch...
But as usual, D1 is more readable on D3 than today.
But... remembering the last game... and my self-promise to policy lynch certain people for following certain procedures that led to a scum victory... AND since emc isn't here to policy lynch...

Moscowfleet... give us your wise insights. Stop not posting.
##VOTE Moscowfleet

If that's his criteria I don't get the Flavius vote from earlier.

Asks people how they feel about policy lynch and also how forum style might impact the game.

QUESTIONS:

Who is your top scum choice?
If you had to say what Chippe's alignment is, what do you think?
What do you think Flavius's alignment is?
Would you prefer to vote for policy lynch or someone who you think is scum?

connorcompton:

Yet another light poster. Interesting start though. Says he's "just observing" but "very enthusiastic...let's kill some people" and that he "would love to be in jail" which Squigs calls town and Foxy makes fun of him for it by saying "shall we play psychoanalyst here" in response to how cavalier connor is, to which connor says "shall we play burn the Squigs witch" as a sort of play on words.

This point of "burning the Squigs witch" continues which sounds like he wants to go after Squigs but doesn't vote for him. He calls himself "excessively committed to justice" and then goes to ask Flavius if there's nuance or explanation in his list.

When teacon says he's probably scum, connor says he's glad someone called him out and that he'll have to pretend to like reading, which teacon picks up on and asks about even though it pretty clearly sounds like he meant he didn't like reading in general in my opinion.

He leaves for a while and when he catches up he gives the following reads:

1. I am almost certain Carl is town

2. I think Squigs likely is aswell.

3. I am genuinely very glad Chippe has been able to reintegrate back into this game. I thought the end was near close to the end of my catchup.
(I don't think I need to say he is clearly town)

4. 'Lurkers'. While I think it is quite early to assume Mafia from someone who's hardly posted, bozo's seeming lack of care to post literally anything of importance makes me highly suspicious.

5. I have no idea about Flavius.

6. From my fairly unimformed opinion, Balki seems scum, don't read too much into that though.

7. I think teacon is Mafia, annoyingly I'm finding this hard to justify, but discounting Chippe's actions as scum, and eagerness to lynch lurkers are hard for me to ignore. So I am going to have to respectfully ##VOTE teacon7

There are things I really don't like about this. He regards lurkers as suspicious but one of his reasons for going after teacon is that teacon is eager to lynch lurkers. He pretty much asks us to ignore his Balki read. His own reads seem pretty lackluster in terms of explanation, and regards his vote for his strongest scum read as "hard to justify." He had criticized Flavius for lack of nuance or explanation but his own reads seem hardly better.

He says the "Squigs witch" stuff was an offhand joke and that he was amazed by the gut reads. Though I don't think that necessarily squares with wanting to "burn" him. He also tries to discuss Blind Assassin.

QUESTIONS:

Why did you include Flavius in your reads?
Why did you vote for teacon if you think it's hard to justify?
What are your reasons for reading him specifically for it?
Why does Balki seem scummy to you?

Carl Tuckerson:

Pretty charismatic guy. There I said it. Opens with a joke "Pay me $20 and I'll jail you tonight" directed at connor, and follows up with some more interactions with him. Questioning the "Squigs witch" comment and another joke. When Squigs says he's slight town he wants a refund. When I say the opening to D1 is productive he asks my findings and I leave him hanging because I'm a tease.

Then he starts getting more heavily into the game by asking why Squigs is pushing Flavius so hard but not voting for him. He asks who actually is scumreading Flavius because he doesn't see any votes cast for him and seems to find it odd

That said, the amount of suspicion and pressure put on him is pretty whack for one vote.

He continues to push Squigs on the issue for a while, asking him what the benefit is and calling his reasoning "weak." When dargo votes for Flavius, Carl thinks his explanation is a bit better but disagrees with it and asks Flavius why he wanted to copy Squigs. He defends Flavius a decent amount and then votes for Squigs because of Squigs blowing Flavius quotes out of proportion.

He then calls Chippe a "bait lynch" and finds it odd that Squigs would vote for Chippe when he refused to vote for Flavius. Tom asks why he called out Squigs for this when Tom also voted for Chippe and had less explanation. Carl says he's "not particularly worried about figuring [Tom] out right now." Carl and I got into a little fight over this where we each ask the other to ask Tom why he voted for Chippe. But Carl maintains his focus on Squigs as continued reasoning.

During the Chippe debate Carl tries to get him to be explicit in what he's trying to do. He doesn't think Chippe is scum but he does what he can to get Chippe to stop.

He also confronts me. After Tom called Carl out for not asking why he voted for Chippe, I figured it was a little odd Carl didn't take the moment to go ahead and ask so I point that out to him. Around the end I said I didn't really care about Tom's specific reasoning. Tom votes for me, and Carl follows him. When he and Tom are asked to explain by et, Carl says there's a baseball analogy but that he would wait for Tom to explain. That seemed pretty odd to me so I pushed him into giving the explanation before Tom got back. He does so (after he accuses me of coaching him how to push him.

Post some reads and ask some people questions about their reads. You’re doing this bizarre bit like an umpire where you give impartial judgments on how people are arguing but you’re ultimately just standing there and not advancing either team’s win condition. It’s like watching a shortstop call balls and strikes. Less coaching more doing please

He switches his vote to Chippe as an ultimatum to get Chippe to put up or shut up. Squigs (the eternal rival) comes to defend Chippe and Carl defends his push

We all know he’s town, at this point it’s about punishing bad behavior. He’s either playing against his win condition or he’s cheating. Neither should be permitted.

Where does this leave you voting? Still interested in Flavius?

He puts his vote back to me to drop the Chippe debate after I accuse Flavius of tunneling. He also makes a joke about how despite his respect for the mod team, all of his "most reasonable kills" are mods (myself and dargo). He includes Foxy, who actually isn't a mod. When Flavius says Carl and I are scum team together Carl says he's overthinking.

He comments that he strongly dislikes the MoscowFleet wagon. He seems to be decently against lynching lurkers, especially with that wagon being the one in the lead. He then turns his focus to Tom. Balki told Squigs he thinks Tom would be pretty engaged as scum, and Carl stepped in to say he thinks the scum would be incentivized to lie low D1, and Tom argues with him over it. Carl says Tom lacks effort and doesn't drive discussion. He later switches his vote to Tom. He gives the following reads (the individual notes on the scum reads are taken out):

COOL: Affirmatively confident they are town.

Squigs44
Balki Bartokomous
ChippeRock
Carl Tuckerson
FlaviusAetius

PASS: Not sold they are town yet but feeling okay about them. Would not lynch. Would like to see TrPrado finish his big breakdown; Durga, explain her parking on MoscowFleet w/o pressuring him otherwise or do something else; et and connorcompton, posting more, b/c while their post count is light I liked what I saw.

TrPrado
Durga
et
connorcompton
​
WHO?: No opinion, low enough activity that I don't think it means anything.

MoscowFleet
CruaaderReynauld
bozo​theclown
rdrivera2005
Nephthys
EspressoPatronum
​ xorxes
damo666

HANG: Voting pool for today. Either did something actively suspicious or I have no opinion on them but they have too many posts to be WHO? which is suspicious in itself.

teacon7
Percy Williams
Tom Bombadil
Foxcastle
dargorygel
ND

After the Cruaader incident he moves him and ND up to the PASS category. Overall Carl seems pretty clear on where he wants to go with each interaction and asks great questions.

QUESTIONS:

When and why did you change your read on Squigs?

Percy Williams:

Really concerned that he's just flying through the game and seeming to dodge the radar. He also misspells Capitalism which I simply can't forgive.

He sees Flavius getting heat for being defensive and says the last time Flavius was scum he was "less defensive and more accusatory of any other target." He says he doesn't feel the game at this point isn't a joke phase but everyone is just participating in jovial banter to keep people "interested and talking." He then goes on to make an exclusively jokey post.

He defends Flavius further and wants to make it very clear that he thinks Flavius is town because he thinks it seems like he was defending Flavius. I marked this as odd in my head because I'm not sure how someone would get that impression. He asks for someone to analyze the gut reads Squigs gave in response to Squigs criticizing the Flavius list.

When Carl calls out the Chippe vote by Squigs, Percy says he believes it's because of a scumread not pressure (Squigs later says it was pressure). He's very critical of Squigs overall and asks Squigs to "focus on catching scum" though he himself has done very little of that.

He makes jokes about the Chippe situation and more weird jokes about claiming Jailer with Carl. Durga calls him out for it. Percy goes on to vote for bozo presumably for lurking. He then discusses meta, which I'm silently annoyed by. When Flavius says it looks like everyone skipped over bozo Percy tries to get credit for having a vote on him. He then goes back to defending Chippe. Overall unhelpful.

QUESTIONS:

What are your thoughts on players who aren't Chippe or Squigs?
Do you intend to offer any sort of analysis?
Who do you think is on the scum team?

Nepthys:

Uh, his posts are pretty spread out, and there aren't many of them. He thinks Flavius slipped because of his posts about "Squigs's dude" and then makes a jab at Flavius by saying

We all agree that lists with logic are helpful though yet no one posts them...

He answers teacon's question about joke phases, disagrees with Moscow about teacon needing to be more concise. Squigs asks if he likes solving or deceiving better and he answers. He makes comments about start time, how hard it is to keep up to date, and asks about previous games.

He then suggests scum is controlling the thread without comment then says he gets a reread going and gives the following assessment:

First 10 pages,

Squigs really wants to control the thread... Don't necessarily think its AI but.. yikes

Teacon is not looking good
Carl is looking good
Darg doing some weird shit
Flav I'm not too sure yet

I hit preview and saw he made an updated reads post.

Up to page 20,

Squigs is coming off an impressive showing on MU so is trying to solidify his standing over here. Town - Bro you're good, don't need to try power the thread.
Chippe is a fuckwit but likely town
Liking Carl
Espresso possible scum
Prado could be scum

QUESTIONS:

Early on you said you thought Flavius slipped, do you still think that and why?
Who do you think was controlling the thread in a scummy way?
Can you explain your reads and why you gave so few?
Why did you include Flavius when you said you weren't too sure?
Why did you include Carl in both if your read wasn't going to change?

MoscowFleet:

So here's the deal. I'm just gonna post all of his messages here. And then ask him wtf.

Chip chip cheerio chaps, it’s bloody burning outside, innit?

https://youtu.be/HXeS-x00ydE

Teacon - post more concisely. Please. Last game you made a lot of good points but they got lost in sheer volume. If you’re town it gets your point across. If you’re scum it makes it easier for us to read you. Either way, we can’t have a repeat of last game.

QUESTIONS:

What the fuck?
Also, if you're reading enough to comment about the volume of teacon's points and posts, why are you not able to bring anything into the game?

[Percy Williams]

Is anyone else concerned about Bozo's total tunnel on Chippe?
He literally claims to have no other reads.

[ChippeRock]

Is anyone else concerned about Bozo's total tunnel on Chippe?
He literally claims to have no other reads.

Clearly not, since no one mentioned it when bozo admitted that he had no other reads other than myself. Than again, experienced players coming up with only 1 read (a scum read) isn't odd or out of the ordinary in any way - happens all the time actually. I also asked him to at least post his thoughts on the other players, but to no avail.

It's just so odd he would straight up state he has only 1 read (a scum read too)...

[Nephthys]

From Prado

QUESTIONS:

Early on you said you thought Flavius slipped, do you still think that and why?
Who do you think was controlling the thread in a scummy way?
Can you explain your reads and why you gave so few?
Why did you include Flavius when you said you weren't too sure?
Why did you include Carl in both if your read wasn't going to change?

1. No. He stated that squigs guy's reads were accurate. I thought he was referring to our squigs in that he had TMI. This was cleared up.

2. Did not know, just did not sense anyone really being particularly bothered. Whether or not scum were actually in control I sense that they were comfortable. Does that mean much? No. Scum start in control then it moves towards us as the game progresses.

3. My reads are in 10 page blocks and at the end of reading who made an impact. Most of them are gut reads which I am content with this stage. If I remember speifics I will update. The one that sticks in my mind in teacon, He asked someone their experience in mafia. Then a few hours later asks some more people. I find this rather suspicious as why not ask everyone at the same time or when you think about it. I think that there is a higher chance of scum motivation behind him asking later. Its a way to be invovled without doing anything.

4. He posted a lot, therefore everyone should have an opinion on him, whether it is unsure or not

5. I wanted to.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Hey, I'm checking in. I'm tired. I'm going to try to respond to some of the last few pages before I crash.

[Balki Bartokomous]

A couple of responses to TrPrado's tome:

Balki Bartokomous:

Really insane number of posts, and I'm not excited. Said he'd leave about an hour after game start. Considers Flavius defensive and suspicous, so he votes for him. Suggests it's too quiet since he's ALLEGEDLY about to leave. But when the hour dawns he's STILL HERE. This is strike one

So, I felt engaged and kept posting from my phone. What's my scum motivation for saying I was going to leave and then...not leaving ?

Changes his mind on Durga and says she's towny and reiterates his push against Flavius. So he's static on Flavius across the game and on Durga his read feels... unnatural?

My read hasn't changed on Flavius, that's true. That's because I found his first few pages to be very readable, and the rest has not moved the needle one way or the other.

I don't think I said Durga is towny?...did I? I at least did not land there. My take on Durga so far, at least that I remember, is that she has played in the safe zone, and I was surprised by Tom's townread of her.

QUESTIONS:

Why did you scum read Durga after the day chat conversation?

I don't think I scum read Durga either. What are you talking about? Can you pull a quote? I am nullish on Durga. Though, I generally expect Durga to be fairly readable as Town, so I'm at least skeptical at the moment. I'm also generally skeptical of folks who have given Durga snap town reads here.

What was the point in asking what "the main thing" meant?[/b]

The point of this question was that I did not understand what Squigs meant and I wanted to understand. So I asked him what he meant. ... This wasn't a hidden code. I didn't know what he meant.

* * * * *

Generally not impressed with TrPrado's questions. Also, I don't like the style of paraphrasing everything in a re-read. It seems like you're just trying to prove that you actually did a re-read. Though, this is NAI. Lots of people do it. I'd just prefer that you pull quotes that you think are important. I don't need a post-by-post narration of everyone's ISO.

I like the effort from TrPrado, but it seems more of a show than advancing the ball. If this is all just to...show your work. Fine. Hoping you hit us with some conclusions and some direction soon.

[Balki Bartokomous]

holy shit i've never seen trprado ever put that much effort into anything. he has to be town

Why? Why does effort equal town for TrPrado? Wouldn't Scum!TrPrado want to put in effort to win?

Is there anything about TrPrado's megapost that reflects the kind of thoughtfulness or mindspace that could not be faked as Scum!Prado? I see generally bad paraphrasing to prove that he read stuff and bad questions. Not the kind of thing that screams #townmindset!!! Though, it's NAI for me, not scum indicative.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I will certainly post reads though. And explain why I think how I do when I do so.

Please hurry.

[Balki Bartokomous]

This is a good post from ChippeRock on Moscow. I actually found it relevant and useful, as I don't really know what to draw from Moscow's absence. But I also find the post towny because I wouldn't expect Scum!Chippe to defend Moscow that way when Moscow appears to be a solid counter wagon that could keep Chippe alive.

Still reading Chippe as pretty towny right now.

[Balki Bartokomous]

townclearing people for posting a shit ton is not a good precedent.

Prado would put effort and volume into the game as town or scum.

+1

[Balki Bartokomous]

A new player who says "I don't want to die day one, best not to talk too much" is 100000% scum

This is really poor analysis, or lazy, bandwagon scum play.

[TrPrado]

Balki: You didn't explicitly say Durga was scum but you definitely implied you were heading there. And you were almost explicit in giving her a scum read almost immediately after.

@Tom, why do you think Durga is Town? She seems to be acting in a bit of a safe zone so far. The Moscow and Chippe votes feel safe and non-confrontational to me.

What is the "safe zone"?

It’s like the friendzone or the endzone, but for things that are “safe.”

I just mean that there are actions and directions that are more likely to get you noticed, examined, and discussed. There are arguments and targets that are likely to lead to pushback. I find that Town!Durga usually hops on, guns blazing, unafraid of the potential return fire. In this game, pushing Chippe late based on a rules violation and then parking a vote on Moscow for lurking feels pretty safe for you.

Why ya being all safezoney?

You hedge afterwards but I think my conclusion from that is what any reasonable person would get.

[TrPrado]

The first sentence is supposed to say you didn't explicitly say you thought she was TOWN**.

[Balki Bartokomous]

I find this ND/Prado vs. Cruaader/Chippe thing to be just hard to read.

I don't think there is any merit to the push on Cruaader, but I'm not sure whether the push is sincere. I feel like teacon's hop on that wagon is significant, but I want to analyze that with some flips.

I don't know... I like Chippe's defense here again. Chippe looks town again is my biggest takeaway. Chippe has been under a lot of pressure and has received a lot of votes today, but he keeps defending obvious counter-wagons. Towny!

[Balki Bartokomous]

No way on God's green earth he is town
You are CLEARLY a retarded person or scum. I'm still 50/50 on it.

This is just a note to say that, while I don't know ND's alignment, I know that I am having fun reading his posts this game. Bravo.

[Balki Bartokomous]

haha CLEARLY CLEARLY CLEARLY CLEARLY CLEARLY CLEARLY CLEARLY

He's scum you fucking idiot

This is just...it's just very well written. I enjoyed reading it the first time, so I went back and read it again.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Hopefully I don’t dream of slamming my face onto a desk repeatedly, but I’m not holding my breath...

I feel you.

[Balki Bartokomous]

But for real, did Cruaader just misspell "Crusader"? Was it a typo? Why didn't he just start over with a new name that doesn't have a typo?

Please explain.

[TrPrado]

But for real, did Cruaader just misspell "Crusader"? Was it a typo? Why didn't he just start over with a new name that doesn't have a typo?

Please explain.

That's called multi-accounting.