Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[et]

Not super excited about Percy's play. It seems very participatory without actually being useful. (Something I get accused of all the time.)

Example: asking somebody else to count up Squigs' scum reads. If you think that could be scummy, why not do it yourself and see rather than shading?

The whole thing between him and Carl about the jailer seems off to me, too.

Based on [urlhttp://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=80220#p80220]this interaction[/url], I don't think Percy and Flavius are both scum, though.

##VOTE Bozo
I don't know what he's playing at, but I don't like it.

And then the Bozo vote. This looks like trying to create suspicion ("yeah... what's he playing at!") but you can come back later with plausible deniability that this is a pressure vote, or something.

I think Percy's vote is understandable. He just vote without any reason.
Was he irrtated by conversation of cheating? He wanted to see reaction of other players? Or just he was busy and thought Chipe as scum?
Or he is scum and vote chipe because he is about to be the first victim of lynch?
Many case is considerable.
So I asked him reason.
Honestly, if he don't answer clearly, I boubt boz as scum.
I haven't say that because 2 players don't say anything.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Tom
Please tell me why you vote TRP?

I don’t scumread ChippeRock and needed to put my vote elsewhere. His observation about ND felt unnatural and I don’t know what it accomplished besides trying to get other people to take up the torch against ND who is one of the most lynchable players in every game he is in.

@Tom, do you have some town reads? Still hoping for more from you. Can you please claim a PR and make something useful happen?

[et]

@Tom
Please tell me why you vote TRP?

I don’t scumread ChippeRock and needed to put my vote elsewhere. His observation about ND felt unnatural and I don’t know what it accomplished besides trying to get other people to take up the torch against ND who is one of the most lynchable players in every game he is in.

Thank you answering for me.
Then, is that temporary voting?
If so, why you didn't say so?

[et]

Not super excited about Percy's play. It seems very participatory without actually being useful. (Something I get accused of all the time.)

Example: asking somebody else to count up Squigs' scum reads. If you think that could be scummy, why not do it yourself and see rather than shading?

The whole thing between him and Carl about the jailer seems off to me, too.

Based on [urlhttp://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=80220#p80220]this interaction[/url], I don't think Percy and Flavius are both scum, though.

##VOTE Bozo
I don't know what he's playing at, but I don't like it.

And then the Bozo vote. This looks like trying to create suspicion ("yeah... what's he playing at!") but you can come back later with plausible deniability that this is a pressure vote, or something.

I think Percy's vote is understandable. He just vote without any reason.
Was he irrtated by conversation of cheating? He wanted to see reaction of other players? Or just he was busy and thought Chipe as scum?
Or he is scum and vote chipe because he is about to be the first victim of lynch?
Many case is considerable.
So I asked him reason.
Honestly, if he don't answer clearly, I boubt boz as scum.
I haven't say that because 2 players don't say anything.

I want to rewrite that. I mean 'he' as boz. Not Percy.
---
I think Percy's vote is understandable. Boz just vote without any reason.
Was boz irrtated by conversation of cheating? boz wanted to see reaction of other players? Or just boz was busy and thought Chipe as scum?
Or boz is scum and vote chipe because boz is about to be the first victim of lynch?
Many case is considerable.
So I asked boz reason.
Honestly, if he don't answer clearly, I boubt boz as scum.
I haven't say that because 2 players don't say anything.

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Bozo, want to talk?

* pats lightly on the seat on the bench

[teacon7]

While I'm catching up, this is worth asking:

Is there anyone here who is using English as a secondary language? I.e., your primary language is something else?

I ask because I don't want to read something the wrong way, or be uncouth or something.

[et]

While I'm catching up, this is worth asking:

Is there anyone here who is using English as a secondary language? I.e., your primary language is something else?

I ask because I don't want to read something the wrong way, or be uncouth or something.

I use English as secondary language.

[Durga]

Why aren't ND and Durga going at it like battle cats yet?

I think ND creates a new persona for each game. I wonder if he has a spreadsheet of all of them, or if he just looks up "angry" in the thesaurus and picks randomly from the list.

So far, I don't see much to go on in his play. He's a good player, could go either way.

"Why aren't ND and Durga going at it like battle cats yet?"

I'm trying to ignore him/not get baited into a fight - early townread on ND FWIW

" He's a good player,"

please.

[Durga]

##call GM - can you please clarify whether
a) chippe has broken the rules
b) chippe would break the rules if he stopped being vague
c) if there's a way to confirm that someone is VT without their death or a PR interference

GM NOTE:
a) Chippe has yet to break any rules.
b) I can't say yes or no to that.
c) From a mechanics and setup standpoint, I fundamentally believe the game is safe and not breakable.

Great. That's nice

##vote moscowfleet

[Tom Bombadil]

@Tom
Please tell me why you vote TRP?

I don’t scumread ChippeRock and needed to put my vote elsewhere. His observation about ND felt unnatural and I don’t know what it accomplished besides trying to get other people to take up the torch against ND who is one of the most lynchable players in every game he is in.

@Tom, do you have some town reads? Still hoping for more from you. Can you please claim a PR and make something useful happen?

I don’t have strong townreads yet. I do think Durga is likely town. And I think squiggs and Carl are likely town as well, but not as strong a feeling as Durga.

@et: I wouldn’t call it a temporary vote, no. I may move it, sure, but I am comfortable lynching TrPrado at this point

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Durga, can you spell that one out?

[Balki Bartokomous]

@Tom, why do you think Durga is Town? She seems to be acting in a bit of a safe zone so far. The Moscow and Chippe votes feel safe and non-confrontational to me.

[Durga]

@Durga, can you spell that one out?

My MF vote? He's a horrible shitty lurker as scum. He did the exact same thing last game and completely got away with it.

[Durga]

@Tom, why do you think Durga is Town? She seems to be acting in a bit of a safe zone so far. The Moscow and Chippe votes feel safe and non-confrontational to me.

What is the "safe zone"?

[Foxcastle]

@Durga, can you spell that one out?

My MF vote? He's a horrible shitty lurker as scum. He did the exact same thing last game and completely got away with it.

Agreed, but also apparently super lurky as town? I am okay with making Moscow Fleet prove himself, because even if he's not scum, lurking like he does seem pretty anti-town.

[Percy Williams]

Not super excited about Percy's play. It seems very participatory without actually being useful. (Something I get accused of all the time.)

I've always wanted a participation trophy!

Example: asking somebody else to count up Squigs' scum reads. If you think that could be scummy, why not do it yourself and see rather than shading?

1. I don't actually think it's sunny
2. They were spread out, and I am lazy.
3. The main point of it was to tell Squiggs to remove the beam from his own eye first.

The whole thing between him and Carl about the jailer seems off to me, too.

I Didn't want a scum to be softclaiming jailer and use it as evidence late game. I was asking if he was claiming, but didn't want any other jailer (possibly me) to hard claim, as it only helps scum to know who the jailer is. Unless the jailer is at a point where it is worth it to reveal who the judge is, for the town clear.

Based on http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3 ... nteraction, I don't think Percy and Flavius are both scum, though.

##VOTE Bozo
I don't know what he's playing at, but I don't like it.

And then the Bozo vote. This looks like trying to create suspicion ("yeah... what's he playing at!") but you can come back later with plausible deniability that this is a pressure vote, or something.

I'm suspicious of him. He's spent some time on the forum according to the bottom of the screen, even after his vote, but only has an isolated bandwagon vote, with no explanation. That's not pro town behavior.

[Durga]

@Durga, can you spell that one out?

My MF vote? He's a horrible shitty lurker as scum. He did the exact same thing last game and completely got away with it.

Agreed, but also apparently super lurky as town? I am okay with making Moscow Fleet prove himself, because even if he's not scum, lurking like he does seem pretty anti-town.

either way he deserves the flipped starting point. he's scum until proven innocent

[bozotheclown]

And Bozo is back! We're all* very** curious** about your vote, Bozo.

[* Those of us interested in the game, anyway]
[** Probably not very, but we want to know because of the game]
[*** Are we even curious? I guess we need to know if it's a policy lynch on Chippe or an actual scum read]

What ChippeRock is doing seems like a scum ploy.

[teacon7]

Please share you reads on someone else Chippee.

Even if you somehow have proof you are VT, pointing that out D1 is terrible town play anyway

Not really. If everyone definitively knows I'm a VT, than I won't be mislynched nor will Mafia NK me - as they have bigger fish to fry than a VT.

Lol I'm sorry I can't stop laughing at this post. U guys remember Jeff Kuta? Haha damn. This is Jeff Jr.

Well, assuming the definitive evidence I'm a VT is found and everyone knows I'm VT, that means there's one less person to consider for lynching. It means that people who have voted for me will have to move their vote to their 2nd most scummy read (or get lynched, since there's proof I'm a VT), and we have a greater chance of lynching scum. Additionally, other players' interactions with me can be analyzed to determine whether or not its Town v Town or Mafia v Town.

I posted the evidence, perfectly legal, that can be used by a good portion of the players here to definitively prove I'm VT. I've also left hints as to what I'm trying to imply is the smoking gun about my evidence. Hopefully someone independently discovers the smoking gun.

@Chippe - While I can't applaud you enough for your subtlety, I'm still not sold on your evidence. It's inconclusive because there's too much chance for wifom in what you're doing. Scum could do the same thing, so this cannot yet constitute "proof." I'll grant that scum aren't normally this bold, but any kind of claim (even a claim for VT) has to be taken with several grains of salt. Even if you were perfectly clear, there's no way any of us can know what you're claiming with the certainty you claim.

Someone reading the thread is all it takes now?

Let's be honest though.... it's a big game so maybe.

Guys, I really don’t think Chippe is mafia from his behavior so far.
He may well be mafia, but his shtick about being VT is not the reason.
I have a strong gut feeling he will flip VT and we will collectively cope by saying “well he was being obtuse and unhelpful and making useless posts” despite knowing deep down that our goal isn’t to kill unhelpful people but to kill mafia.

Chippe is known for being a rock. Can we stop trying to get water from him?

Hey now it worked for Moses. You just gotta make sure you don't showboat like he did, lest you incur the wrath of the Lord God.

Besides being irritating, what do you think Chippe is doing?

apparently trying to break the rules instead of just trying to play and solve the game
i genuinely don't know.

Yea, it's not solvy, but it could be useful for getting reactions down the road.
@durga - are you only on moscow for policy?

If I were cheating, Jamiet would have kicked me to the curb in an instant.

+1


It seems the majority of the time since last I posted was people arguing about Chippe's actions/non-actions proof or non-proof. There are several classes of reactions to this... some are seeing the esoteric subtext, some are arguing the surface argument, and all around it's taken up too much time in discussion. I'm confident that mods will deal with it if it's a rules issue. Chippe's actions aren't definitive proof that he's a VT, and we should stop talking about it.

[Foxcastle]

It seems the majority of the time since last I posted was people arguing about Chippe's actions/non-actions proof or non-proof. There are several classes of reactions to this... some are seeing the esoteric subtext, some are arguing the surface argument, and all around it's taken up too much time in discussion. I'm confident that mods will deal with it if it's a rules issue. Chippe's actions aren't definitive proof that he's a VT, and we should stop talking about it.

So why did you just devote all that space to it?

See, if Chippe is town (and I think he likely is), the scum team want to keep him around as long as possible because he's going to take up attention from actual scumhunting. So it looks to me like what you just did is fan those flames and then say "oh, let's not!"