Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[ChippeRock]

You've literally been told it's against the rules to say it and yet you continue alluding to it?? Jfc do you know how games work?

What I'm alluding to is something different than what I've been told not to do. I'm trying to allude to a specific post - not to a certain characteristic of said post. Even if you caught my hint, it still takes effort to fully get the definitive VT proof.

This is apparent because Squigs thinks he has found the post, but yet he still can't figure out how that post definitively proves I'm a VT and how it connects with another post (or posts) of mine. He sadly doesn't appear to have made the connection that definitively proves I'm a VT.

I have not broken any rules, I merely worked around a specific ruling I got from the GM.

[Durga]

+1 Carl

##end

[Durga]

Please never play again Chippe, thanks

[ChippeRock]

Fine, I’m going to state information about the PM that I received and force you to cough it up. I’m very close to replacing out because I don’t want to play a game that becomes dominated by gaming the roles in a way that clearly violates the spirit of the rules, so I frankly don’t care if I accidentally cross a line by stumbling into your information.

I received the exact text that worcej posted for the VT in the opening post. There is literally zero deviation between the text posted and the PM that I received. Every single character is the exact same that you see in the opening post.
There is no possible way, just from me saying that, that you can know that I truly am a VT and not just making it up, because there is no deviation from the OP. There is no difference between my role PM and the OP, so there is no difference between me truly claiming the exact text of my role PM and me lying about it.
There is also no difference between the role PM you quoted and the role PM in the OP or my role PM. Meaning that there is no way I can know just from you quoting “your role PM” that you actually did so, as opposed to lying about it and quoting the OP, which is identical to my VT PM and any other VT PM and thus what you are claiming.

If there is some obvious defect in your specific PM, then it is clearly against the plain reading of the rules for you to have engaged in this line of conversation, meaning that you probably lied about contacting the mods because it’s difficult to believe they would allow this line of reasoning because of a clerical error, meaning that you really should just be kicked from the game and not be allowed to play anymore.

The only other alternative that I can figure out, if your PM is not defective, is that you are mistaken as to this proof, because there is no possible proof otherwise. In which case, I will probably policy lynch you for taking all the fun out of this game by being an idiot.

That's a huge red flag (don't think I can say what) - you're either a Town with flavor or Mafia. I'll take my chances. ##VOTE CarlTuckerson

Also, part of your reasoning is wrong - which has caused you to deviate completely off course. This mistake makes me want to rethink my vote, but I'll take my chances.

Also, this is my 2nd game in Mafia, and my first game I was the Tracker. This is my first game as VT ever.

[Squigs44]

if chippe wants to drop this nonsense entirely and just play the game then i'm happy to move my vote, but as long as he's wasting my time i'll try to get him lynched

I've made my current reads. You want me to play the game? Fine, here's my current vote (which I'm sure will probably change): ##VOTE Squigs44.

As I've stated in previous posts, he's viciously going after people (Flav & I) with little information to base his reads (he voted me quite early, when I hadn't made too many posts). He made all of those weird gut reads. And he seems to be jumping onto whichever wagon seems like it will attract a lot of fellow voters.

Yes, I am being quite vicious towards Flav... by witholding my vote? And yes, I am only jumping on bandwagons... except that I have only placed one vote - on you - with reasoning given - and as the second voter.

[Squigs44]

Guys I originally assumed that ChippeRock made up the absolute proof thing as a way to ensure getting townread, but having six votes on him and still pushing the issue doesn't line up with that at all... Selfish squigs still kinda wants to policy lynch him for being so against the spirit of the game and being anti-town, but rational Squigs is saying that Occam's razor he is in fact telling the truth about being a VT.

We all know he’s town, at this point it’s about punishing bad behavior. He’s either playing against his win condition or he’s cheating. Neither should be permitted.

Where does this leave you voting? Still interested in Flavius?

I would be fine with a Flav lynch at this point in the game, but there are still lots of other people who I still need to read and analyze and question. We still have people who haven't posted in the game yet.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Fine, I’m going to state information about the PM that I received and force you to cough it up. I’m very close to replacing out because I don’t want to play a game that becomes dominated by gaming the roles in a way that clearly violates the spirit of the rules, so I frankly don’t care if I accidentally cross a line by stumbling into your information.

I received the exact text that worcej posted for the VT in the opening post. There is literally zero deviation between the text posted and the PM that I received. Every single character is the exact same that you see in the opening post.
There is no possible way, just from me saying that, that you can know that I truly am a VT and not just making it up, because there is no deviation from the OP. There is no difference between my role PM and the OP, so there is no difference between me truly claiming the exact text of my role PM and me lying about it.
There is also no difference between the role PM you quoted and the role PM in the OP or my role PM. Meaning that there is no way I can know just from you quoting “your role PM” that you actually did so, as opposed to lying about it and quoting the OP, which is identical to my VT PM and any other VT PM and thus what you are claiming.

If there is some obvious defect in your specific PM, then it is clearly against the plain reading of the rules for you to have engaged in this line of conversation, meaning that you probably lied about contacting the mods because it’s difficult to believe they would allow this line of reasoning because of a clerical error, meaning that you really should just be kicked from the game and not be allowed to play anymore.

The only other alternative that I can figure out, if your PM is not defective, is that you are mistaken as to this proof, because there is no possible proof otherwise. In which case, I will probably policy lynch you for taking all the fun out of this game by being an idiot.

That's a huge red flag (don't think I can say what) - you're either a Town with flavor or Mafia. I'll take my chances. ##VOTE CarlTuckerson

Also, part of your reasoning is wrong - which has caused you to deviate completely off course. This mistake makes me want to rethink my vote, but I'll take my chances.

Also, this is my 2nd game in Mafia, and my first game I was the Tracker. This is my first game as VT ever.

I literally cannot be a "town with flavor" because my role PM is the exact same as the VT post.
The only thing I can possibly guess at is that yours ended up with an Oxford comma in the sentence "You win when all the Mafia have been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from happening," because all the non-VT PMs posted in the OP have one, and it's easily something that a GM could mistakenly send if he decided to type your PM manually instead of copy-paste for whatever reason.
Or maybe there's a capitalized letter somewhere, but I couldn't guess where, maybe "Spectator" instead of "spectator" or "Courtroom" instead of "courtroom" or perhaps both. The only thing I know is that my PM has the exact text as the one in the OP.

If there is a discrepancy between ours and the GMs do not intervene to resolve this then I'm not only going to policy lynch you for being a colossal waste of a game slot and time but because you proved yourself to be mafia.

[Carl Tuckerson]

This situation should not be allowed to exist unless ChippeRock is plain wrong about something.

[ChippeRock]

No, the risk is too great - I'm changing it back to my original scumread (which I'm now not as sure about). ##VOTE Squigs44

[Squigs44]

Sigh...

I'm going to bed and hoping that this has somehow resolved itself in a positive way tomorrow morning. Please, everyone, not just Chippe, do not talk about role PMs any more. It will not do you any good in the game, and just breaks from the spirit of the game. This will be my last post about it, and I hope it will be the game's last post about it.

[ChippeRock]

Fine, I’m going to state information about the PM that I received and force you to cough it up. I’m very close to replacing out because I don’t want to play a game that becomes dominated by gaming the roles in a way that clearly violates the spirit of the rules, so I frankly don’t care if I accidentally cross a line by stumbling into your information.

I received the exact text that worcej posted for the VT in the opening post. There is literally zero deviation between the text posted and the PM that I received. Every single character is the exact same that you see in the opening post.
There is no possible way, just from me saying that, that you can know that I truly am a VT and not just making it up, because there is no deviation from the OP. There is no difference between my role PM and the OP, so there is no difference between me truly claiming the exact text of my role PM and me lying about it.
There is also no difference between the role PM you quoted and the role PM in the OP or my role PM. Meaning that there is no way I can know just from you quoting “your role PM” that you actually did so, as opposed to lying about it and quoting the OP, which is identical to my VT PM and any other VT PM and thus what you are claiming.

If there is some obvious defect in your specific PM, then it is clearly against the plain reading of the rules for you to have engaged in this line of conversation, meaning that you probably lied about contacting the mods because it’s difficult to believe they would allow this line of reasoning because of a clerical error, meaning that you really should just be kicked from the game and not be allowed to play anymore.

The only other alternative that I can figure out, if your PM is not defective, is that you are mistaken as to this proof, because there is no possible proof otherwise. In which case, I will probably policy lynch you for taking all the fun out of this game by being an idiot.

That's a huge red flag (don't think I can say what) - you're either a Town with flavor or Mafia. I'll take my chances. ##VOTE CarlTuckerson

Also, part of your reasoning is wrong - which has caused you to deviate completely off course. This mistake makes me want to rethink my vote, but I'll take my chances.

Also, this is my 2nd game in Mafia, and my first game I was the Tracker. This is my first game as VT ever.

I literally cannot be a "town with flavor" because my role PM is the exact same as the VT post.
The only thing I can possibly guess at is that yours ended up with an Oxford comma in the sentence "You win when all the Mafia have been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from happening," because all the non-VT PMs posted in the OP have one, and it's easily something that a GM could mistakenly send if he decided to type your PM manually instead of copy-paste for whatever reason.
Or maybe there's a capitalized letter somewhere, but I couldn't guess where, maybe "Spectator" instead of "spectator" or "Courtroom" instead of "courtroom" or perhaps both. The only thing I know is that my PM has the exact text as the one in the OP.

If there is a discrepancy between ours and the GMs do not intervene to resolve this then I'm not only going to policy lynch you for being a colossal waste of a game slot and time but because you proved yourself to be mafia.

They can't intervene, because the following rule covers this situation, and you'll end up with a mislynch.

To clarify further: Players may not copy and paste any game related Mechanics. Players may not doctor, and create fake game related mechanics. Players may not share personal correspondence between GM to player under any circumstances. The GM will not confirm any claims, or adjudicate based upon anything that could easily be sorted out through questioning and evidentiary circumstance.

[Nephthys]

snip

pg 13 -14

@Nephthys
Do you like joke phases? Why?
Do you always play like this?
Do you prefer playing scum or town?

Yes because it makes things more interesting to read, no because people usually take them too far. I like less than 5 pages of jokes.

No. Game started at 7am my time.

More team based that role based, anything is fun with the right people

Cool, sorry that sucks, and okay I guess.

To clarify #3: Do you like the solving or the deceiving better?

snip snip

Both have things I like and things I dont.

As town I get annoyed that a large proportion of people don't read my shit and that we never have a leader and just sheep the "good players". I enjoy that every game I correctly catch a scum no-one else is really on to.

As scum I enjoy having the power to manipulate things although I find it technically harder.

[Tom Bombadil]

I implore everyone to stop focusing on ChippeRock. Doing so will only hurt town more that it already has.

[dargorygel]

Realizing that I am now NOT 'moving on...' I have to say this about 'proof.'

"You keep using that word... I don't think you know what it means."

Meanwhile @Nephthys... I'm very willing to read your posts and think through your reasonings. Your reads have often ended up right, in the end.

Who is scum today?

[dargorygel]

I'ts Day 1... ezio is not here to suggest a no-lynch...
But as usual, D1 is more readable on D3 than today.
But... remembering the last game... and my self-promise to policy lynch certain people for following certain procedures that led to a scum victory... AND since emc isn't here to policy lynch...

Moscowfleet... give us your wise insights. Stop not posting.
##VOTE Moscowfleet

[Foxcastle]

Good morning, everyone. I see that we are in hell.

I'll catch up fully in a bit, but I think Tom is right. We have to stop being derailed by ChippeRock's claim.

[dargorygel]

And it's time to hear from our non-posters... Cruaader and damo.
@Cruaader welcome to Mafia... have you played before?
@damo... what do you think about policy lynching non-posters, due to the success of scum hiding in the quiet corners?

[EspressoPatronum]

I don't know what post you've come upon on nor do I know which hint you think you've found, but perhaps you should closely compare the two if you think you know what I'm referring to. Perhaps you should share with everybody else what you think I'm referring to if you're 95% confident.

After this post my confidence level is 98% now. I am not going to share what I think it is for the same reason you are not sharing what it is - you should not be allowed to game mechanics in that way. What you are doing is against the spirit of the game, and if you do not stop, then I will put my vote back on you so that we can start enjoying the game again.

This is exactly what I was thinking, and he should be mod killed for this. It's too late now

+1 for the modkill. He's trying to exploit the exact phrasing of the rules but imo he's breaking the spirit of the game.

If he doesn't get modkilled, I'm still happy to vote him out. Better to deal with this now than later when it matters more.

[Tom Bombadil]

Espresso - you’ve played mafia before I assume? I know someone said you played a game here recently - was that your first?

[EspressoPatronum]

Re: breaking the spirit of the game. As mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I believe the elaboration on rule 2 captures Chippe's "strategy."

I left rule 0 in there to speak to the modkill.

GENERAL RULES

0. The GM reserves the right to adjudicate individual scenarios that arise during the course of the game at his discretion.
[...]
2. All players are forbidden from posting screenshots of their role PMs.
[...]
ELABORATION
[...]
2. All role PMs have been posted in the setup information. The point of this rule is to forbid "gaming" the role PMs to determine alignments; after all, the fun of this game is reading people, not outguessing the GM.