Mafia 46 - Ace Attorney - GAME THREAD

[Squigs44]

Speaking of bait lynch.

Why are you voting for ChippeRock, Squigs? I thought you didn’t move your vote around casually?
Chippe already has at least one vote on him (Tom Bombadil) and no one likes his shtick. He’s getting plenty of pressure. Why are you voting ChippeRock now when you were so reticent to vote for Flavius?

If I explained my vote now it would lose its purpose. Remind me later and I will explain.

[Squigs44]

What part of this wasn't clear? Now read my 7 posts (versus your 54) and try to understand my motivation behind making my posts.

If you truly have read all of my posts than you would know that I am trying to read everyone off of their first post or two as an experiment.

So far, in all 8 of your post, you have:

• Answered questions about your meta
• Reposted game mechanics
• Defended yourself

Your motivation behind making your posts? You are trying to post without scumhunting. You are trying to make people believe you are a VT.

That lines up with the motivations of scum, so yeah, I'm happy with my scumread of you.

##Vote ChippeRock

For people that were so adept at picking up Jamiet was scum in my last game (when I +1ed), you guys are sure having a tough time understanding my messages... You guys sure are dense.

Any role can quote the VT role PM from the OP. I see what you are trying to do, and it isn't convincing me.

[Squigs44]

Squigs, I butchered a quoted response to you a few pages back. You might have missed it.

What did you mean when you said that Flavius “was reading people as individuals, not thinking about the game as a whole”?

I kinda touched on this in a response to Balki, but I can elaborate a bit more.

If Flavius was solving the game as a whole, he would be asking the question "Which 6 people are most likely to be the scum team". This would give him the correct number of scumreads in his reads list, and he would be looking at not just isolated posts, but interactions between people, defending, distancing, bussing, etc.

Reading people as individuals is focusing more on reading them post by post and not caring about how they interact with people. You sort someone's alignment independent of your read on other people. This is how someone could end up with too many scumreads.

Scum are much more likely to read people as individuals than solve the game as a whole.

Can somebody review Squigs's gut reads to see how many are scum?

That reminds me, I think I may have missed one or two people. I'll do them real quick and give you a breakdown.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Speaking of bait lynch.

Why are you voting for ChippeRock, Squigs? I thought you didn’t move your vote around casually?
Chippe already has at least one vote on him (Tom Bombadil) and no one likes his shtick. He’s getting plenty of pressure. Why are you voting ChippeRock now when you were so reticent to vote for Flavius?

This post is strange. I literally gave no reasons for my vote for Chippee, yet you question Squiggs who actually laid out a reason? Seems like you are searching for reasons to question/scumread someone rather that organically questioning people as the thoughts come into you mind.

Scummy indeed.

Maybe you missed it, but Squigs and I have been having a chat for a little while now. I'm not particularly worried about figuring you out right now.

But that's not my main reason for scumreading him at all.

He has been defensive and cares too much about what other people think. He isn't solving, he is pleasing people.

I didn’t say it was. It is a critique you made which didn’t sit right with me at all.

So far your case on Flavius has been:
- He’s defensive in reaction to criticism
- He “lied” about your read on Foxcastle
- He is thinking about individuals and not a team

I think one of these things is not true, and none of these are inherently scummy behavior. People, especially young people like Flavius and especially newer players, get flustered and defensive when criticized, regardless of alignment.

If you don’t like Flavius’s reads, why can’t I find you asking him any questions about them to figure out his alignment?

And despite calling him scummy repeatedly you will not vote for him. And now you have moved onto an easy bait lynch. I don’t buy it.

##VOTE: Squigs44

I'm a bit confused. You are criticizing me for scumreading Flavius too much for the reasons I have given. But you are also criticizing me for not scumreading Flavius enough to vote him.
I did ask Flavius about his reads, he answered me and then left to go to dinner. Others have asked him questions that are outstanding right now and put pressure on him, so I think that those interactions will help me to figure out his alignment better as well.
It seems to me that you are voting me because you disagree with my read of Flavius more than anything else. What motivation does scum Squigs have for pushing Flavius early and then backing off and moving elsewhere?

Where did you ask him about his reads? The most I could find in your posts was informing him of the obvious fact that he has more scumreads than there are scum. I didn't see any meaningful engagement with them. If I missed something, point it out for me.

I'm voting for you because I don't think your reasons for suspecting Flavius come from a townie mindset and I found it unsettling that you were very confident he was scummy but unwilling to vote for him. I also don't like that you have moved onto ChippeRock for what amounts to being obtuse and annoying, which is not alignment indicative, and that you ostensibly broke your previous reason for not voting Flavius to do it, which is that you don't pressure vote people who are already under fire.

[Percy Williams]

THANK YOU

To clarify, as I read that last post I made, it sounds like I scum read you.
I don't.
As a cornered town you get very defensive. (Feel free to remove your omgus scum read of me now)

What does your comment have to do with what you quoted?

Flavius said "Thank You" when someone stopped pushing on him, as though the world was all against him. I was responding realizing it looked like I scum read him.

[Balki Bartokomous]

To elaborate, I think your concern makes a lot of sense if we are 3-4 days into the game and he is still naming too many scumreads and he is still giving reads disconnected from each other.
Demanding that his scumreads all make sense together 4 hours into the game is a bit much for me. It’s entirely too early to be able to conduct that kind of analysis.
He should be working toward it, and I dislike that he left without explaining his reads list, but I don’t think this is a fair critique of him.

But that's not my main reason for scumreading him at all.

He has been defensive and cares too much about what other people think. He isn't solving, he is pleasing people.

I didn’t say it was. It is a critique you made which didn’t sit right with me at all.

So far your case on Flavius has been:
- He’s defensive in reaction to criticism
- He “lied” about your read on Foxcastle
- He is thinking about individuals and not a team

I think one of these things is not true, and none of these are inherently scummy behavior. People, especially young people like Flavius and especially newer players, get flustered and defensive when criticized, regardless of alignment.

If you don’t like Flavius’s reads, why can’t I find you asking him any questions about them to figure out his alignment?

And despite calling him scummy repeatedly you will not vote for him. And now you have moved onto an easy bait lynch. I don’t buy it.

##VOTE: Squigs44

Carl Tuckerson is totally a fake name that someone makes up when put on the spot. But I like this post.

You're towny Carl Tuckerson. I like you.

[Carl Tuckerson]

Actually, something else you can explain for me Squigs.
If you're interested in figuring people out by understanding their mindsets and interactions with other people, what's the point of your "give a gut read based on their first post" experiment? Doesn't that experiment encourage you to analyze individual posts and people in a vacuum, absent the interactions that you would normally want to analyze to find mafia?

[Squigs44]

Speaking of bait lynch.

Why are you voting for ChippeRock, Squigs? I thought you didn’t move your vote around casually?
Chippe already has at least one vote on him (Tom Bombadil) and no one likes his shtick. He’s getting plenty of pressure. Why are you voting ChippeRock now when you were so reticent to vote for Flavius?

This post is strange. I literally gave no reasons for my vote for Chippee, yet you question Squiggs who actually laid out a reason? Seems like you are searching for reasons to question/scumread someone rather that organically questioning people as the thoughts come into you mind.

Scummy indeed.

Maybe you missed it, but Squigs and I have been having a chat for a little while now. I'm not particularly worried about figuring you out right now.

I didn’t say it was. It is a critique you made which didn’t sit right with me at all.

So far your case on Flavius has been:
- He’s defensive in reaction to criticism
- He “lied” about your read on Foxcastle
- He is thinking about individuals and not a team

I think one of these things is not true, and none of these are inherently scummy behavior. People, especially young people like Flavius and especially newer players, get flustered and defensive when criticized, regardless of alignment.

If you don’t like Flavius’s reads, why can’t I find you asking him any questions about them to figure out his alignment?

And despite calling him scummy repeatedly you will not vote for him. And now you have moved onto an easy bait lynch. I don’t buy it.

##VOTE: Squigs44

I'm a bit confused. You are criticizing me for scumreading Flavius too much for the reasons I have given. But you are also criticizing me for not scumreading Flavius enough to vote him.
I did ask Flavius about his reads, he answered me and then left to go to dinner. Others have asked him questions that are outstanding right now and put pressure on him, so I think that those interactions will help me to figure out his alignment better as well.
It seems to me that you are voting me because you disagree with my read of Flavius more than anything else. What motivation does scum Squigs have for pushing Flavius early and then backing off and moving elsewhere?

Where did you ask him about his reads? The most I could find in your posts was informing him of the obvious fact that he has more scumreads than there are scum. I didn't see any meaningful engagement with them. If I missed something, point it out for me.

I'm voting for you because I don't think your reasons for suspecting Flavius come from a townie mindset and I found it unsettling that you were very confident he was scummy but unwilling to vote for him. I also don't like that you have moved onto ChippeRock for what amounts to being obtuse and annoying, which is not alignment indicative, and that you ostensibly broke your previous reason for not voting Flavius to do it, which is that you don't pressure vote people who are already under fire.

So... confirmed tunneling.

Post 112 I asked him about reads, and he gave them 2 posts later. I don't personally have to interact with him all the time to scumread him, other people were interacting with him as well.

Where do I give off the vibe that I am "very confident he was scummy"? That certainly is not my feelings on Flavius, so I think you are misunderstanding me here.

[ChippeRock]

If you truly have read all of my posts than you would know that I am trying to read everyone off of their first post or two as an experiment.

So far, in all 8 of your post, you have:

• Answered questions about your meta
• Reposted game mechanics
• Defended yourself

Your motivation behind making your posts? You are trying to post without scumhunting. You are trying to make people believe you are a VT.

That lines up with the motivations of scum, so yeah, I'm happy with my scumread of you.

##Vote ChippeRock

For people that were so adept at picking up Jamiet was scum in my last game (when I +1ed), you guys are sure having a tough time understanding my messages... You guys sure are dense.

Any role can quote the VT role PM from the OP. I see what you are trying to do, and it isn't convincing me.

There we go, now you're on the right track! Unfortunately, you're not understanding (perhaps intentionally) why I would quote the OP's role PMs after already stating 11 VTs received the VT role PM.

All the evidence to definitively prove I'm a VT is there, can you find it? 10 people should be able to.

[Percy Williams]

Speaking of bait lynch.

Why are you voting for ChippeRock, Squigs? I thought you didn’t move your vote around casually?
Chippe already has at least one vote on him (Tom Bombadil) and no one likes his shtick. He’s getting plenty of pressure. Why are you voting ChippeRock now when you were so reticent to vote for Flavius?

I believe this is a scum read vote, not a pressure vote.

[EspressoPatronum]

@Chippe was it really necessary to clutter the thread by quoting all of the roles which are already found in the OP?

Do you have anything to post that will benefit town?

I don't post anything that doesn't benefit town.

Lol.... you just did.

[TrPrado]

This post is strange. I literally gave no reasons for my vote for Chippee, yet you question Squiggs who actually laid out a reason? Seems like you are searching for reasons to question/scumread someone rather that organically questioning people as the thoughts come into you mind.

Scummy indeed.

Maybe you missed it, but Squigs and I have been having a chat for a little while now. I'm not particularly worried about figuring you out right now.

So are you not going to ask Tom why he did it now that he's also engaged you in conversation? Why not figure out Tom?

[Squigs44]

Actually, something else you can explain for me Squigs.
If you're interested in figuring people out by understanding their mindsets and interactions with other people, what's the point of your "give a gut read based on their first post" experiment? Doesn't that experiment encourage you to analyze individual posts and people in a vacuum, absent the interactions that you would normally want to analyze to find mafia?

Yes, I am analyzing people based on a single post with those reads. It's a good thing that its just a fun exercise and that I am not basing the rest of the game solely off of these reads.

[EspressoPatronum]

Eleven Vanilla Townies should have received, word for word, the following message:

You are a spectator of the courtroom, also known as a Vanilla Townie! Each day you must vote for a suspect. You win when all the Mafia have been eliminated or nothing can stop this from happening.

You know who you are!

Squiggs, you got a scum read off of this and worcej's role PM quote? I think you should re-read all of my posts - perhaps you should consider my motives behind my posts when reading me as town or scum rather than rushing your reads and merely glancing over my posts.

Imo, you should make it easier for people to work with you. Tell people your motives*. Quoting without context doesn't help. It comes across like you're trying to look like you're posting a lot and helping, when in truth you aren't posting anything new.

[Percy Williams]

Actually, something else you can explain for me Squigs.
If you're interested in figuring people out by understanding their mindsets and interactions with other people, what's the point of your "give a gut read based on their first post" experiment? Doesn't that experiment encourage you to analyze individual posts and people in a vacuum, absent the interactions that you would normally want to analyze to find mafia?

Yes, I am analyzing people based on a single post with those reads. It's a good thing that its just a fun exercise and that I am not basing the rest of the game solely off of these reads.

So why do think Flavour wasn't doing the same thing?

[Percy Williams]

Actually, something else you can explain for me Squigs.
If you're interested in figuring people out by understanding their mindsets and interactions with other people, what's the point of your "give a gut read based on their first post" experiment? Doesn't that experiment encourage you to analyze individual posts and people in a vacuum, absent the interactions that you would normally want to analyze to find mafia?

Yes, I am analyzing people based on a single post with those reads. It's a good thing that its just a fun exercise and that I am not basing the rest of the game solely off of these reads.

So why do think Flavour wasn't doing the same thing?

*Flavius

[Squigs44]

For people that were so adept at picking up Jamiet was scum in my last game (when I +1ed), you guys are sure having a tough time understanding my messages... You guys sure are dense.

Any role can quote the VT role PM from the OP. I see what you are trying to do, and it isn't convincing me.

There we go, now you're on the right track! Unfortunately, you're not understanding (perhaps intentionally) why I would quote the OP's role PMs after already stating 11 VTs received the VT role PM.

All the evidence to definitively prove I'm a VT is there, can you find it? 10 people should be able to.

No, the evidence is not there at all. You could have done this as any role. Therefore, you can be any role. If someone could prove their innocence in a single post, this game would not be worth playing. Now, can you please legitimately play the game?

[ND]

Jesus give me strength bcoz that was alot to read omg. Some real highlights in there though. Between Fox playing ultra serious, ‘oh no jokes plz mommy’ and Darg doin wat? Eating fucking popcorn and chiding me while throwing out compliments? Then we got Squigs throwing around his ‘gut reads’ after someone posts, half of which make no sense to anyone him included because it’s total bull shit. Then a real winner (not) Teacon re-playing last game and voting Moscow? Lol, wtf? New guys: (ET/CON) are super freaky fishy dudes. Carl, I don’t even know guy is real tryhard thu. Chippie, about what I expected. A true retard right there. Drugna? Doing nothing as usual truly an idiot.

God damn what a sack of shit this game is already

[Squigs44]

Actually, something else you can explain for me Squigs.
If you're interested in figuring people out by understanding their mindsets and interactions with other people, what's the point of your "give a gut read based on their first post" experiment? Doesn't that experiment encourage you to analyze individual posts and people in a vacuum, absent the interactions that you would normally want to analyze to find mafia?

Yes, I am analyzing people based on a single post with those reads. It's a good thing that its just a fun exercise and that I am not basing the rest of the game solely off of these reads.

So why do think Flavour wasn't doing the same thing?

He gave criteria for his reads, and his criteria included multiple posts, not just the first. He posted all of his reads in one list, rather than post by post.

[Carl Tuckerson]

This post is strange. I literally gave no reasons for my vote for Chippee, yet you question Squiggs who actually laid out a reason? Seems like you are searching for reasons to question/scumread someone rather that organically questioning people as the thoughts come into you mind.

Scummy indeed.

Maybe you missed it, but Squigs and I have been having a chat for a little while now. I'm not particularly worried about figuring you out right now.

I'm a bit confused. You are criticizing me for scumreading Flavius too much for the reasons I have given. But you are also criticizing me for not scumreading Flavius enough to vote him.
I did ask Flavius about his reads, he answered me and then left to go to dinner. Others have asked him questions that are outstanding right now and put pressure on him, so I think that those interactions will help me to figure out his alignment better as well.
It seems to me that you are voting me because you disagree with my read of Flavius more than anything else. What motivation does scum Squigs have for pushing Flavius early and then backing off and moving elsewhere?

Where did you ask him about his reads? The most I could find in your posts was informing him of the obvious fact that he has more scumreads than there are scum. I didn't see any meaningful engagement with them. If I missed something, point it out for me.

I'm voting for you because I don't think your reasons for suspecting Flavius come from a townie mindset and I found it unsettling that you were very confident he was scummy but unwilling to vote for him. I also don't like that you have moved onto ChippeRock for what amounts to being obtuse and annoying, which is not alignment indicative, and that you ostensibly broke your previous reason for not voting Flavius to do it, which is that you don't pressure vote people who are already under fire.

So... confirmed tunneling.

Post 112 I asked him about reads, and he gave them 2 posts later. I don't personally have to interact with him all the time to scumread him, other people were interacting with him as well.

Where do I give off the vibe that I am "very confident he was scummy"? That certainly is not my feelings on Flavius, so I think you are misunderstanding me here.

He gave them, you called out the obvious fact that he had more scumreads than there were scum, then as far as I can tell you have not asked him any questions pertaining to those reads. If, by Post #192, he was "clearly" your "top scumread," why not question him on why he found the seven people he scumread to be scummy, either to exonerate him (if you subsequently become convinced he was town) or to build a credible case on him (if you remained convinced he was mafia)?

You called him your clear top scumread, I interpreted that to be confidence that he was scum. That's the vibe I got from that and where I got it from.

And don't poison the well with accusations of tunneling. If you think any of my questions or conclusions are unfair, say so and say why. I haven't asked you anything unfair and haven't treated you unfairly. I just don't buy what you're selling here.