M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

[Percy Williams]

hey @Percy did we ever figure out what differentiated your lurking from moscow's?


@moscow: same question

My initial thought was having an excuse, any lampshaded lurking is more town, as it is being open and sharing the information you have, which are going behaviors, but I'm about to iso both Moscow and myself, and see if there are any obvious differences in what we actually do post.

[FlaviusAetius]

Why shouldn't we talk at night?
I've mentioned THAT several times as to why.
Because then scum can talk in REAL time.
You have been the only one to ignore this. Emc a bit too.
Wonder why!

Because it makes no sense flav. Scum can talk in real time already. Us talking here makes no difference. Why would us talking give them the ability to do something they couldn't already? please explain

I know, but then they can talk in real time to the things we are saying, and think of a strategy together on how to avoid it.

@percy
@teacon

[FlaviusAetius]

Oh! And teacon, can we stop opening up wagons all around?
Who do you even think is a town at this point?
Seems like you just like to poke holes into everyone!

[teacon7]

Because it makes no sense flav. Scum can talk in real time already. Us talking here makes no difference. Why would us talking give them the ability to do something they couldn't already? please explain

I know, but then they can talk in real time to the things we are saying, and think of a strategy together on how to avoid it.

@percy
@teacon

So you're saying we shouldn't talk at night because... scum would have more fodder for conversation in their QT? Did I get that right?

If so, that's silly. They're gonna do what they're gonna do no matter what. They could still talk about what they'd do during the day. What little bits of collaboration they gain at night about night phases... seems like little compared to the information differential we gain by the discussion time at night. Discussion is really all we have...

[teacon7]

Oh! And teacon, can we stop opening up wagons all around?
Who do you even think is a town at this point?
Seems like you just like to poke holes into everyone!

Why shouldn't I vote for whom I like? Do you feel moscow is somehow off limits? Should I vote for myself again, like yesterday?

• a wagon is a person with a lot of votes on him/her... usually 3+, though it depends on the size of the game.
• a case is a reasoned explanation for someone's alignment. The quality of the reasoning varies.
• a push is actively trying to get someone to vote the way you want... usually accompanying a case, but not necessarily.
• questioning is the catch-all term I use for various conversational deductive/inductive information-gathering tools
• scumhunting is using questioning and other available information to make cases, and then pick which cases are most likely.

What you're seeing me do is lots of questioning. I've put a vote on moscow, but it's hardly a wagon with just one person on it. I've asked around a lot to get information because I don't know anyone's alignment. rdriv and Xorx and ND and bozo and heck even vapor were questioning. people who are not questioning and just (imo it seems they're) voting with other people's cases are: moscow and percy. I expect more from them today. You're pushing a lynch, but I don't really see a coherent, consistent case. emc is asking questions, but who knows he'll probably decide the entire game at 10 seconds from EoD, and won't help us out during the day with the bit of information he gives from his vote.

[Percy Williams]

hey @Percy did we ever figure out what differentiated your lurking from moscow's?


@moscow: same question

My initial thought was having an excuse, any lampshaded lurking is more town, as it is being open and sharing the information you have, which are going behaviors, but I'm about to iso both Moscow and myself, and see if there are any obvious differences in what we actually do post.

Should say "town" not going.

[teacon7]

hey @Percy did we ever figure out what differentiated your lurking from moscow's?


@moscow: same question

My initial thought was having an excuse, any lampshaded lurking is more town, as it is being open and sharing the information you have, which are going behaviors, but I'm about to iso both Moscow and myself, and see if there are any obvious differences in what we actually do post.

Should say "town" not going.

I think it's understood that you both have excuses. Nothing personal. But we have to recognize that this doesn't change the math on what info we have for behavior patterns in-game.

[Percy Williams]

So my iso on Moscow found that

He has posted:
1. Discussion of people's meta (most notably to claim a town!Vapour was scum [he could have just been wrong, I don't want to fall prey to confirmation bias, but Vapour claimed to be playing the same, so it is worth noting])
2. Random reactionary comments (like his comment on teacon surviving)
3. Possible scum crumbs for God chat mocking:

I seem to be widely townread. I would be shocked if I was kept around for lylo.

Okay, the last one is a joke, but it would be really funny if I'm right.

Whereas I have posted:
1. A lot of jokes ( I be that way)
2. My opinion on the validity of others cases and claim.
3. Excuses (I unfortunately also be that way)
4. Succinct explanations for why I am voting how I do, and the direction I think the game is headed.

@Teacon even rereading my posts, I didn't seem scum to myself, and believe this is because of my #2 and #4 type posts that I seem towny (at least the way I read) and the fact that Moscow's main contributing posts have been type #1 comments on meta posts.

[Percy Williams]

My Flavius is a lot scummier, my case on Moscow is that of remaining players after Flavius, Moscow is least townlike, and therefore scum.

[MoscowFleet]

Rip ND. Called it day one, just saying. I’m not surprised he died, seeing as he was probably the least likely to vote for me today.

I’m fully convinced that the scumteam is Teacon-Flav. I could write a 5000 word essay on why, which I’m sure Teacon would love me to do so he could pick at every comma splice, but honestly the strongest evidence is what happened yesterday. Flavius goes from strongly scumreading Teacon all day to suddenly switching to get Vash lynched right before eod. Combine that with all the “omg look at me I’m a noob” and it’s clear as day. Go back and look at Flav’s reaction to xorxes flipping town. Mesh that with yesterday’s EOD. It doesn’t add up.

Teacon has said plenty of Flav, but he *can’t* bring up the votes, because that in turn implicates him.

If you want more, Xorxes has written more than enough detailing why it’s Teacon-Flav. Teacon has somehow wriggled his way through three days, and is going for the fourth and a win. It’s not going to happen.

I’m refraining from using a bunch of quotes and pouring obsessively over every statement of Flav and Teac because Teacon seems to feed off that. Look at the xorxes lynch, or how he developed a sudden scumread of me out of nowhere yesterday. We don’t really have the time for a mud slinging battle.

Again - look at the votes. It’s the one concrete measurement we do have, and they don’t lie.

@Percy I find it hard to believe you think the scumteam is me and Flav after I’ve been scumreading him for so long. Either way, I believe you’re town, and voting Flav I can get behind. If EMC joins us, scum’s hands are tied. ##vote Flav

Voting Flav instead of Teacon for two reasons: If I vote Teacon with Flav, and the wagons go 3-2, Flav could switch last second to lose. Lynching Flav is much safer. 2. Once Flav flips, it’ll be painfully obvious to anyone that Teacon is our last scum.

@emc the game likely rests on you. Please make the right decision, and it really shouldn’t be super late. Don’t give scum the opportunity to move late.

[FlaviusAetius]

Listen guys, Im not scum.
I switched to Vashta, because I wanted to kill someone.
It was going to be in teacon's hands otherwise. I wasn't going to let that happen.
Go back and look, my vote switch happened last, I wanted to kill teacon, I still want to kill him. Let's kill him please.

[FlaviusAetius]

Its emc and teacon, and its clear as day.

emc has been doing his votes last minute and avoiding anything of substance.
Teacon can't even give us a list of people who he thinks are town.
He's just poking holes into everyone, making us believe people who we think are town right into scum.
Kill him. Kill emc. We can do it.

[FlaviusAetius]

I know, but then they can talk in real time to the things we are saying, and think of a strategy together on how to avoid it.

@percy
@teacon

So you're saying we shouldn't talk at night because... scum would have more fodder for conversation in their QT? Did I get that right?

If so, that's silly. They're gonna do what they're gonna do no matter what. They could still talk about what they'd do during the day. What little bits of collaboration they gain at night about night phases... seems like little compared to the information differential we gain by the discussion time at night. Discussion is really all we have...

Can you stop acting like you don't understand?
If we talk in real time, and we start talking about things and trying to discover who is scum, DURING THE NIGHT. What happens? The two scum get to snipe whoever they want, based on what's going on, they get to make carefully planned plans for the next day.
It makes perfect sense I really don't see how you think it's silly...
24 hours for discussion when everyone including you wanted to hammer it?
Compared to 48 hours without scum coordination.

[FlaviusAetius]

@Percy
@Moscow

Both of you right now are completely forgetting about emc.
Once you factor HIM in, perhaps the teacon-flav team is actually a teacon-emc team?

[Percy Williams]

@Percy
@Moscow

Both of you right now are completely forgetting about emc.
Once you factor HIM in, perhaps the teacon-flav team is actually a teacon-emc team?

I never said it was a teacon flav scum team.
But I am open to reconsidering Moscow, but priority numero uno is lynching Flavius. If he finally flips scum (As I strongly believe he will), we should be able to piece together who the other scum is.If he's not scum we've lost well done to the scum team.

[FlaviusAetius]

Dont give up like that

[Percy Williams]

We're in mislynch=lose time, I'm not giving up, it's just a fact.

[Foxcastle]

Vote Count 5.1

FlaviusAetius (2) — Percy Williams, MoscowFleet
MoscowFleet (1) — teacon7
teacon7 (1) —FlaviusAetius

FlaviusAetius is set to be lynched.

E.m.c^42 must cast a valid vote. Moscow Fleet must make one more post to meet the minimum posting requirement.

There are just over 23 hours remaining in Day 5!

[Percy Williams]

Emc, what are your thoughts?
If we get too close to the end and you haven't voted then that is super scum at this point.

[e.m.c^42]

Its emc and teacon, and its clear as day.

emc has been doing his votes last minute and avoiding anything of substance.
Teacon can't even give us a list of people who he thinks are town.
He's just poking holes into everyone, making us believe people who we think are town right into scum.
Kill him. Kill emc. We can do it.

I'm townreading Teacon more and more actually - for the same reason you're scumreading him lol

he's willing to reconsider and poke at everyone - which is really needed at this point, since we're pretty dead if just one town person mis-tunnels, and the remaining two scum join in on it.