M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

[FlaviusAetius]

@teacon that might be why I was so adamant, and still am on you being a scum, not only have people who I believe are town(xorxes and espresso) but also two people so far who I know are town have also targetted you(durga and vapor(who is now me))

I'm at a spot no one else is at, one where I know whatever the person before me said with honesty.
It might seem like I'm tunneling you, but its because I have the personal evidence too.

Explain why so many people who are proven town scumreading you.

[FlaviusAetius]

Is it because they are in fact not town? Enlighten us please why you think xorxes and espresso are not town.
You have recently started to side with xorxes, or at least opening the possibility of it.
Especially in the comment of trying to get xorxes to believe Im buddying him.
Trying to shift who the wagons are now, are we?

[teacon7]

Just want to highlight this now that we know Durga was town.

At the time of that post, teacon, ND, Moscow, Percy, and Vash were on Durga.

I think we can all agree ND is probably town, but the others are viable scum options.

You gotta keep ND on that list. He could have hopped off to look better when she flipped.

We are keeping ND off that list, he's the one who led us to Vashta, and now you want to turn us against him. Interesting. Trying to create more candidates? Boy was xorxes right.

"led us to vashta" ... do you know something about vash that we don't?

Scum could easily leave a wagon they knew was on a townie, so they wouldn't look responsible for the mislynch. ND leaving that wagon is dependent on his reason for doing so, not "that he left it." We at least ought to include that as a potential reason, and whittle down candidate lists on more evidence.

You seem pretty confident in xorxes' case, flavius.

Did you ever answer: Do you think vapor played well?

[teacon7]

what the heck you guys

also scum

bye gg

Why do you think Durga thought you were scum?
Don't tell me it was because of you voting for her.
There were 4 others that followed you there. (one, of course, being a scum, as espresso suggested)

Did she think I was scum? I wouldn't be surprised if she voted me in self defense.

[FlaviusAetius]

also scum

bye gg

Why do you think Durga thought you were scum?
Don't tell me it was because of you voting for her.
There were 4 others that followed you there. (one, of course, being a scum, as espresso suggested)

Did she think I was scum? I wouldn't be surprised if she voted me in self defense.

She said it after the lynch for her was secured, you really haven't been reading my posts

[FlaviusAetius]

teacon is a scum, the reasons I have pointed out, and he's neglected

hesitant to lynch damo early
as both I and emc stated, damo, a town in the last game, was playing extremely passive, not coming out swinging.
teacon made mention he was also reading last game, he would know this.
He would have seen damo right off the bat, but didn't.

thought vapor(previous me) was a cop
so any and all evidence against me that is from vapor is a null and void in teacon's eyes as it pointed to a cop.
he also went after xorxes hard.
Both are really good at mafia, so why didn't xorxes the supposed scum, go after vapor for their NightKill, since in teacon's eyes was obviously a cop.

all known town people suspected him
I've explained in my above post about the others, but let's talk about rdivera, shall we?
He told teacon in Day 1 that the policy lynch that teacon suggested was a silly approach! An easy mislynch, a redirection of anyone but damo, was clearly happening.

Those are the main points I have brought up.
How does this at all look like Im buddying xorxes?
I have one my own points, points you've neglected, you are painting a weak picture.

[teacon7]

Are you saying it is impossible that both you and teacon are town?

Yes, it's pretty much impossible. He would not manipulate my arguments the way he has if he was town.

You are really really going up in my suspicions as his partner with all the distrust you place in every single thing I say as if they had second intentions, but I still think Flavius is more likely.

I'm flattered xorxes, but you're assuming perfect play on both of our parts.
It's not impossible that I'm misreading you and you're misreading me. It's not impossible that you're not saying things as clearly as you think, and I'm not saying things as clearly as I think. Are you capable of making mistakes?

[teacon7]

hesitant to lynch damo early
as both I and emc stated, damo, a town in the last game, was playing extremely passive, not coming out swinging.
teacon made mention he was also reading last game, he would know this.
He would have seen damo right off the bat, but didn't.

This argument assumes quite a lot. I didn't read the entirety of last game. I don't know damo's meta from the beginning of the game, and even if I had, one game isn't enough to know someone's meta.

thought vapor(previous me) was a cop
so any and all evidence against me that is from vapor is a null and void in teacon's eyes as it pointed to a cop.

what? I thought vapor was the cop. I didn't push him because I thought that. I was wrong. Now, I kinda scumread vapor for blabbing about cop stuff so openly. It's possible vapor's talking about it made rdriv open up about cop theory, so that's how the scumteam found the cop.

he also went after xorxes hard.

This is NAI. are you OMGUSing one behalf of xorxes?
why do you townread him so hard?

Both are really good at mafia, so why didn't xorxes the supposed scum, go after vapor for their NightKill, since in teacon's eyes was obviously a cop.

That's incoherent. I thought vapor was cop. I have no idea who xorx thought was cop. vapor knew he wasn't the cop, and yet he was pretty chatty about it.
you're assuming that I'm good at this game because I posted a lot. you're also assuming that xorx and I would think alike.

That seems to be reserved only for xorx and damo

all known town people suspected him
I've explained in my above post about the others, but let's talk about rdivera, shall we?

Yeah, let's. here's what rdriv said:

It seems like these quotes address the common theme of policy lynches. whether you're policy lynching a lurker, or policy-lynching a useless player, it's still a policy lynch.
-rdriv points out that we should be finding scum rather than info lynches. I agree. I asked about info lynches b/c I wanted to know who we think is/isn't providing info.
-ND points out that calling for {policy lynch based on useless playstyle} is scummy. Agree.
-I think lurking is NAI, but low investment posting *is* alignment indicative, because it's an attempt to "stay off the radar" by participation but no commitment. hedging is another way to try to stay off the radar. In my read so far, the former describes percy pretty well, the latter describes emc and damo.

+1 (in fact +100)

There are moments a policy lynch could be necessary, but not usually D1.

And I agree with Percy, Damo and Emc being low effort/hedgy. I just tend to not push EMC so hard because it's his style.

A question, why Vashta isn't on the same list of Percy?

He told teacon in Day 1 that the policy lynch that teacon suggested was a silly approach! An easy mislynch, a redirection of anyone but damo, was clearly happening.

yesss... he did. And we talked about it. On page 27. Check it out, unless you're just interested in cherrypicking quotes?

Those are the main points I have brought up.

hunh. news to me.

How does this at all look like Im buddying xorxes?

I'm not sure I asked you that...
xorx wants to lynch you. He's said as much on multiple occations. and you are arguing the same way he is about me. maybe if you agree with him and vote with him, he won't bus you? is that it?

[teacon7]

Why do you think Durga thought you were scum?
Don't tell me it was because of you voting for her.
There were 4 others that followed you there. (one, of course, being a scum, as espresso suggested)

Did she think I was scum? I wouldn't be surprised if she voted me in self defense.

She said it after the lynch for her was secured, you really haven't been reading my posts

Yeah at that point she said that because her lynch was secured.
Before then, she was saying things like this:

I *want* to town read teacon and Moscow just based on the amount of content they're providing, but I can't fathom why they read the game the way they read it. It's so different from how I'm seeing the game that I'm finding it hard to clear them in my mind. So probably null for now.

[teacon7]

point is, i don't think she really said much about me until she showed up towards the end of d2 to get lynched.

[Percy Williams]

@foxcastle my bad, I was quoting teacon, and didnt know how to off the percybot

Did I just get a Mafia bot?
I always wanted one of those

[Percy Williams]

@Percy: In your other two games, you always ended each day on one of the top 2 wagons. Why were you OK leaving your vote on a one vote wagon D1?

I'll be honest, I wasn't really paying attention to Damo day one, and didn't see any traction going for a damo wagon. I believe ND was on Durga at the time, and he was at least decrying Durga enough I presumed he would vote Durga. I thought even then that Durga was scum, and had a slight town read on ND, so I voted Durga, and didn't come back on till after phase end.

[Percy Williams]

Mild town points to Bozo, for asking valid questions calmly. :clapping:

[Percy Williams]

Bruh, I didn’t know there were minimum posting requirements.

Just 2 posts related to the game per phase

I don't believe they HAVE to be related to the game
Here are the cheesy jokes I know you all missed^

[FlaviusAetius]

Do you think he's trying to buddy or sheep you?

You said this in reference to xorxes.

You said it yourself, I've been almost sure of you being scum since I got into this game, that was way before xorxes said anything about me being a scum.
Your arguments are falling flat on the water, and pretending the past doesn't exist.

[FlaviusAetius]

what the heck you guys

also scum

bye gg

Durga after the day had ended, when she saw the bot had killed her, and there was no hope, when she knew this would be her last message.
Her last words were you are scum. Your only defense is for self-defense?
Give me a break.

[Percy Williams]

What are the chances scum are playing my bias?

I think fairly high. A lot of ppl hopped on the Durga train without much resistance. If Durga isn't scum, then I think 2 scum are in the votes against her right now.

Just want to highlight this now that we know Durga was town.

At the time of that post, teacon, ND, Moscow, Percy, and Vash were on Durga.

I think we can all agree ND is probably town, but the others are viable scum options.

Wait, why is ND probably town? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just want an explanation.

[bozotheclown]

Nobody needs to resort to that. What has that got to do with it?

It matters because he would not do it for no reason, and he had no reason to do it. Is it your theory that damo did not know what write about me, so he reread the previous game with the intention of finding a read of me to copy?

I don't have any theory about it, it doesn't really matter why he did it. All that matters is that he would not have done it as town.

I can speculate: I doubt he went and reread the game, more likely he just remembered it because that reads list was done by me in answer to a question from him, and he commented favorably after I posted it. Maybe he found that read particularly inspired, maybe that read is what convinced him that I was town and so he wanted to replicate that feeling in others, who knows. Maybe he remembered it because it was worded in an unusual way.

I have a question for you:

Do you think teacon is being genuine when he accuses me of using a very crude logical fallacy against him? i.e. do you think he really believes I was making the argument he claims I was making?

I am interested to hear from damo after the game about this, I do not think the wording was that similar that it could not just have been a coincidence. If you are town and that really was the only reason you wanted to lynch damo, I think you got lucky.

I do not think anything teacon accused you of claiming was an example of either of the logical fallacies he cited, and that is a reasonable point against him, but I can't be sure of what he really believes.

[VashtaNeurotic]

Yo EP, can you explain how you went from teacon and Durga to being your top scum reads to voting for neither of them and letting wagons go 3 wide with 20 minutes left in the day?

[xorxes]

Vashta, Vapor/Flav, EMC, Teacon, Xorxes
(2 here are scum)

Rest are town

Correct!