M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

[Percy Williams]

I've been suspicious of Durga almost all game, and she has in no way improved,
So ##vote Durga

[bozotheclown]

Wow, nice! Very surprised at the turn of events - Damo wasn't on my radar at all.

Good call @Xorxes and the others who made it happen last minute. I'll have to go comb through the past few pages to see how you figured it out. Was it just the one post re: bozo's play, or was there more?

Nobody but me voted him for that, so there must have been something else.

xorxes seemed to imply that he did not know why other players suspected damo, but at least 4 players gave reasons they scum read damo before xorxes jumped on him for his read of me. The growing suspicion of damo could have led xorxes to start bussing him.

[Percy Williams]

Hi Bozo!

[Percy Williams]

Finally someone else on who's in this game at the same time as me!

[Percy Williams]

Wow, nice! Very surprised at the turn of events - Damo wasn't on my radar at all.

Good call @Xorxes and the others who made it happen last minute. I'll have to go comb through the past few pages to see how you figured it out. Was it just the one post re: bozo's play, or was there more?

Nobody but me voted him for that, so there must have been something else.

xorxes seemed to imply that he did not know why other players suspected damo, but at least 4 players gave reasons they scum read damo before xorxes jumped on him for his read of me. The growing suspicion of damo could have led xorxes to start bussing him.

That's possible, but seems like a really gusty, unlikely move. The wagon needed a push to get started, and without forces I don't think that would have happened. It would mean Xorxes on behalf of the mafia team decided to trade a teammate and a possibility to mislynch innocently, for major town points.I find this unlikely.

[bozotheclown]

Nobody but me voted him for that, so there must have been something else.

xorxes seemed to imply that he did not know why other players suspected damo, but at least 4 players gave reasons they scum read damo before xorxes jumped on him for his read of me. The growing suspicion of damo could have led xorxes to start bussing him.

That's possible, but seems like a really gusty, unlikely move. The wagon needed a push to get started, and without forces I don't think that would have happened. It would mean Xorxes on behalf of the mafia team decided to trade a teammate and a possibility to mislynch innocently, for major town points.I find this unlikely.

Yes, that is the general consensus, which is why it could be a good play. If xorxes is scum and gets some mislynches out of bussing the GF, it could win him the game. damo may not have been lynched D1 without xorxes, but he would have been lynched soon.

[bozotheclown]

board game party over. It was fun.

RIP rdrivera.

##vote durga

@vapor what the hell. I thought you were the cop.

also, from skimming the thread so far, it looks like xorx wasn't doing town theatre, is doubling down on his convoluted case, and... didn't die N1 as he predicted. I'd insta-scumread him for that, but I just find it so strange that he'd bus the GF. I'll be responding to his case in long form because I imagine most of you just skimmed my wall of text.

I'll say it now because it's town should beware of two things:
a) tunneling, and
b) believing something because it keeps getting repeated.

think for yourself, and don't listen to volume over quality. that's enough for now.


@xorx, what do you think of durga?

Why didn't you comment on rdrivera's reads?

[bozotheclown]

Even if xorxes is town, I question his case on teacon. There is reason to suspect Durga from D1 for pushing ND and defending damo early, but Vashta looks worse on both of those points.

I think there are too many questionable things adding up for xorxes.

##VOTE xorxes

[VashtaNeurotic]

Howdy y'all I'm back. And yeah that post bozo posted has not aged well at all. I mean I could make the argument that there is no way I'd so explicitly call out the godfather in my opening post (and if anything I'd do the other scum) but I doubt that will matter a lot. You'll probably lynch me at some point, but while I'm alive, may as well give my two cents!

Anyway, given the unlikelihood of a scum team wanting to bus the godfather I'd say it's super unlikely both of the scum are there. And as far as counterwagons go...ND was the major one. So uh, yeah, that means the prime candidates for lynching should be Espresso, Durga and ... me. Now I get the whole teacon wagon thing but I honestly think that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for voting damo at a crucial point near end of day, because while yes he couldn't really have voted ND, I doubt scum teacon would put himself in such a situation.

As far as my vote I'd like to point out something interesting (and offer a bit more defense of myself along the way). So the last vote for ND was me...with like 16 hours left in the phase. And then it just stayed that way. Like it was clear by a few hours left in the day that the gas for the ND train was pretty run out, no one new was expressing suspicions and a good amount of people were defending him. So what did I do...try to shift wagons to ensure a townie is lyched, try a new tactic to get people to vote for him? Nope I just... restated old stuff took questions and ... didn't do anything. Like, you'd think I'd do more to ensure that a mafia wouldn't be lynched, especially when I was actually around at an hour left in the day with the vote tied, but instead I just...let the damo momentum continue and have him die? Yeah, I doubt I'd do that as scum.

Meanwhile, Durga actually did try to get a percy wagon going and seemed to be pretty adamant about the ND lynch (and very concerned about the deadline), which is exactly what a scum would have to be in that situation. Meanwhile Espresso just wasn't around at EoD not completely exonerating, but given I know I am innocent and all other factors, gonna ##voteDurga .

[teacon7]

Teacon, that's interesting. You think that makes him more scum xorx?

@durga - what was your thought process in asking this question? like... this sounds like a rhetorical question.

He was very reluctant to vote for damo until I pressured him.

That's just not true.

xorx was not responsible for moving people onto damo.

bozo, rdriv, xorx, and I all voted damo for our own reasons.

damo turned out to be scum, but xorx' initial evidence on him seemed ... thin. It was based on similar phrasing. That's enough for a hunch, but not enough warrant grabbing towncred for leading a lynch. xorx even got challenged by people who didn't see his case being as strong as he thought. I challenged him on that anyway. so did vapor, iirc.

@xorx - how were you so sure damo was scum? how'd you know so quickly and so confidently?

[teacon7]

He was very reluctant to vote for damo until I pressured him.

I really wasn't. I explained this in a massive post at EoN1.

I had decided to vote among the behavior I found scummy
The parameters for "scummy behavior" were low-commitment, low-investment posting that made someone look like they were participating but didn't really commit too much. That and hedginess. I posted this and said it described percy, emc, and damo.

rdrivera thought this was great. he wanted to add vash to that list. I said okay.

I was townreading vapor pretty hard (I thought vapor was the cop, actually. he seemed like he was softing it.)

percy seemed to fit the bill - he'd been largely non-committal, AND my copread was voting him.

Otherwise, I suspected emc and damo for heging the hell out of their thoughts early on. I'm willing to give them something of a pass to people for not being sure - it's D1 and the only people who can be sure of anything is scum. (which reminds me of a nagging question: why was xorx so sure about damo?)

vapor was on percy, so I followed there.



As d1 drew to a close, it was clear that percy wasn't going to take off.

the vote was tied between ND and damo. damo was in my lynch pool, ND wasn't.

I waited to move because emc hadn't voted yet. I didn't want him to re-tie the vote. I kept asking him to vote because I didn't want him to come in after me and tie the thing up again.

so i didn't move earlier. I was waiting for emc.
at exactly T-0:15 minutes to EoD1, ignoring durga's call to start new wagons, and not because xorx said anything, I moved to my second tier of lynch candidates. I didn't want the vote to tie.

my other scum candidate (emc) wasn't a wagon, but I could break a tie by voting for damo.

I know xorx wants credit for the damo lynch, but it was tied, and I broke that tie.


@xorx - If I was scum, why would I have left percy at all?

why not sit there and let others cause chaos? I didn't have to move. I wasn't any more responsible for breaking ties at EoD than you were. my motion, not yours, put damo ahead of ND.

@xorx - so here's what I still don't get, and I think you have the experience to be able to answer - why would any scum bus their GF on d1?

[xorxes]

board game party over. It was fun.

RIP rdrivera.

##vote durga

@vapor what the hell. I thought you were the cop.

also, from skimming the thread so far, it looks like xorx wasn't doing town theatre, is doubling down on his convoluted case, and... didn't die N1 as he predicted. I'd insta-scumread him for that, but I just find it so strange that he'd bus the GF. I'll be responding to his case in long form because I imagine most of you just skimmed my wall of text.

I'll say it now because it's town should beware of two things:
a) tunneling, and
b) believing something because it keeps getting repeated.

think for yourself, and don't listen to volume over quality. that's enough for now.


@xorx, what do you think of durga?

At this point I think she's town, not because of anything in particular that she did, but because I'm almost certain the scum are teacon and Vapor.

I will try to keep an open mind as I keep reading though.

[xorxes]

This is the first post after EoD1.

Nice one xorx

It's wrong.

Lots of people were responsible for the damo lynch. it's not wrong for durga to give him sole credit.

xorx found one thing based on similar wording.

bozo scumread him for other reasons first
rdrivera scumread him for other reasons first.
...they both even said so.

damo was in my lynch pool
damo was in vapor's lynch pool

...why does durga give xorx sole credit for this lynch?

damo would probably not have been lynched without my push.

bozo certainly gets credit for starting the wagon. He wasn't there at EOD pushing for it though, and if it wasn't for me the wagon would have died at two votes. You said you didn't want damo as D1 lynch, ND would have voted Percy in self-defence, emc would have voted whatever the leading wagon was at EOD as usual, and Moscow I don't know what he would have done but he didn't seem particularly interested in damo.

I was the one asking ND, you and Vapor to vote for your scumread damo at EOD.

So yes, it is correct that I get most of the credit for that lynch.

[xorxes]

Welp, guess I need to reevaluate the game considering he was one of the few people I thought was town. Possible he was bussing ND but at least for next phase I'll discount that possibility (Though the godather is the most likely scum to bus as they are the most likely for towncred to not be undone by a scan).

I don't quite understand what vash is saying here.

@xorx, can you or one of the other experienced players explain this to us?
why would scum bus their godfather for towncred?

He means the godfather is the most likely scum to do the bussing, not the most likely to be bussed, as you seem to be reading it.

[xorxes]

OK, I'm dead tonight.

Doc probably don't save me, you could be needed to save the cop later, and I will die N2 if you do anyway. (Or maybe do save me, just to keep the scum guessing )

Cop don't scan someone who will die early.

My top candidate for scum at the moment is teacon, but that's just a hunch.

My mega-EoN-reads addressed this post a bit, but I'll respond again.

I read this as xorx trying to feed a newbie scumteam misinformation. I figured he'd run a case on me all night, basically promising them he'd go after me D2. They'd keep him alive because they'd want the two of us fighting. In my thinking for all of N1, both myself and xorx were town.

It turns out I was wrong.

Something I could have done subtly, but not something I would ever spend the whole night on. There was a good chance it was my last night and I would not have wasted it on something that just might help me survive instead of hunting for scum. Good story though.

[xorxes]

OK, I'm dead tonight.

Doc probably don't save me, you could be needed to save the cop later, and I will die N2 if you do anyway. (Or maybe do save me, just to keep the scum guessing )

Cop don't scan someone who will die early.

Okay leaving out the part about me, what do these bolded parts mean?

Really.

@xorx, who were you thinking of there, who was likely to die early and therefore shouldn't get scanned?

I wasn't thinking of me specifically, but obviously wasting the scan on me would be absurd. Even when I'm scum, it makes no sense to scan me because I'm always lynched after I survive a couple of nights. In this case, when I just lynched the godfather, scanning me was even more absurd.

The rule is valid in general: cop always wants to scan someone with high chances of making it to the end: someone not too towny and not too scummy.

[xorxes]

OK, I'm dead tonight.

Doc probably don't save me, you could be needed to save the cop later, and I will die N2 if you do anyway. (Or maybe do save me, just to keep the scum guessing )

Cop don't scan someone who will die early.

It reads kinda like a "don't scan me, I'm going to die."

... which is fine for xorx to say if he's really about to die.

But since he didn't die, you have to wonder - did he get scanned?

You have to wonder, right? Especially now we know the cop was someone experienced like rivera.

[xorxes]

I can't tell if Teacon is panicked or bad.

Panicked. He's not bad at all.

[xorxes]

Drugna, the only one panicked is you as your behavior has demonstrated.

Although I don't know why Teacon would save that about vapor.

They both probably have PR claims prepared.

If teacon claims doc at EOD, and real doc doesn't counteclaim, we lynch Vapor please.

[xorxes]

Drugna, the only one panicked is you as your behavior has demonstrated.

Although I don't know why Teacon would save that about vapor.

No I just straight up fucking hate you.

The feeling is mutual.

You two are not planning on spoiling a perfect town game for me, are you?