M1007 — "Mafia, She Wrote" Game Thread

[ND]

Also, speaking of ND;
Ugh why did you have to go and switch like that. It is a bit boring going back to using a more generic syntax.

wut the fuck lol

[ND]

geez Espresso is a dumbass I'm not even sure he's reading the game.

[e.m.c^42]

Also, speaking of ND;
Ugh why did you have to go and switch like that. It is a bit boring going back to using a more generic syntax.

wut the fuck lol

You took the spot I liked :(

[ND]

What we cmparing spots we gonna pee in?

[EspressoPatronum]

Thanks for the heads up. GL/HF.

What time zone are you in?
What do you think of: emc. And what do you think of: ND ? so far?

EST time zone.

Re: my early thoughts on ND, see the posts in which I vote for him.
Put briefly, I am comfortable voting ND for two reasons:
1. His gameplay is erratic. Whether this is normal for his game or not, I don't find it very useful. It's a huge plus if we vote him out and he's scum. Even if we vote him out and he's town, we still cut someone who wasn't providing a lot of substance.
2. Trying to butter ppl up is a red flag. I'm not sure how normal it is in forum games, but I find it suspect if people rely on "gut feelings" to clear town. His whole, "I feel like Durga is town" seemed like a weak attempt at taking some heat off him.

Not many thoughts on emc yet. I'll reread the posts and get back to you. Any posts +/ pages that stand out?

Ok, you said ND play is not usefull, so you don't mind lynching him. I don't fully agree with it, but for the sake of the discussion suppose you are right. What kind of play you find usefull?

The useful play that jumps to mind is the following:
- probing questions + their responses
- comment/analysis of players
- information on self and/or others
- reasons for your stance or vote
- comments that further the discussion, in general

I would say the following is not useful:
- spam
- silence

There is admittedly a lot of gray area, as those categories are fairly subjective and broad. That being said, ND's play appears to fall mostly into spam and comments that do not further the discussion.

I recently asked ND to compile a post that would tick a lot of the 'useful' points I listed above. If he does that + it is persuasive and/or someone else appears more sus, I am more than willing to change my vote.

Out of curiosity, where would you draw the line one useful/not useful?

[ND]

HAHA look at this guy. Doesn't read the game and wants me to compile a post for him. Fuck him. lol.

[bozotheclown]

ND likes to change styles from game to game but when he's like this he's scum.

##vote ND

I find this somewhat contradictory, and I am not sure why damo would be so confident that ND is scum.

##VOTE damo666

[e.m.c^42]

What we cmparing spots we gonna pee in?

Flair, ND, the flair~

[Durga]

geez Espresso is a dumbass I'm not even sure he's reading the game.

Chill the fuck out

[ND]

Oo Derg Derp is mad at me.

[EspressoPatronum]

HAHA look at this guy. Doesn't read the game and wants me to compile a post for him. Fuck him. lol.

Isn't it in your best interest as town to make it easier for other town to (a) follow along with your thoughts and (b) to not vote for you? It's a team game, after all.

[teacon7]

Third party! Third party is best, town and scum the same :D

Third party does look like fun. I don't think I've ever done it.

That said, I don't think town/scum are the same at all. Seems to me like there's massive differences in playstyle and objective, don't you? Accounting for a real preference for 3rd party... Why dodge the question?

heh this wasn't even supposed to be a deep question

So a friendly amendment to what I asked: Of these two options: a) Town b) Scum ... which do you prefer to play as, and why?

Honestly? Both are quite fun for me, since the objective is the same: pretend I know shit going on, and avoid dying xD
and it’s fun to devil’s advocate other people’s reads.
(this isn’t avoiding the question intentionally lol)

Let's break this down:

Honestly?

A wise woman told me a story once about the word "honestly." She said that if a guy comes to you and tells you to believe him, because "honestly!" or "really, i mean it this time" or "let me be straight with you." ...you have to be careful. Because they're either lying right there and feel the need for extra persuasion, OR they're usually lying, and feel the need to add a little extra persuasion when they actually do tell the truth.

Both are quite fun for me, since the objective is the same: pretend I know shit going on, and avoid dying xD
and it’s fun to devil’s advocate other people’s reads.

The objective is manifestly NOT the same between town and scum.
Town doesn't know what's going on, and is trying to figure it out. Scum DOES know what's going on, and is trying to pretend they don't know. Town wants to solve, scum wants to live + NK + ML their way to victory.

(this isn’t avoiding the question intentionally lol)

Well then you're unintentionally avoiding the question. Which is functionally the same. Xorx put it well - no one is perfectly bisexual / ambivalent about preferred alignment.

Why would that matter?
1) As town, you have no reason not to pick a side here.
1.a If you're town and like town, you're comfortable saying "I like being town" and that's it.
1.b If you're town and like playing scum, you're a bit uncomfortable saying it, but there's no real reason not to. Newbie town tends to try to nerviously self-preserve, but I get the sense that you've played (and GM'd) often enough that you don't deserve a newbie pass on this.
2) As scum, you'd have every subconscious reason to hedge on this question:
2.a If you're scum and say "I like playing scum" ... you feel a bit exposed because you implied you might be scum, so it's risky.
2.b If you're scum and say "I like playing town" ... you feel like you're lying a bit, because you're currently not playing as town.

So: this is maybe nitpicking, but also could indicate nervous scum tics, so...

Why so hesitant to commit to answering the question?
Why not jump on ND?

Teacon, I can't tell how rusty he actually is, but he comes off as experienced enough to know what's going on - so he's null. Completely unrelated to alignment feelings, but his style so far is one I like.

Thanks! :) The above post is nothing personal, understand, but i'd be remiss if i ignored the gut intuitions outlined above. Thanks for your time and answers...

[ND]

HAHA look at this guy. Doesn't read the game and wants me to compile a post for him. Fuck him. lol.

Isn't it in your best interest as town to make it easier for other town to (a) follow along with your thoughts and (b) to not vote for you? It's a team game, after all.

I give plenty of deep thoughts.

[teacon7]

Vash knows the game exists and will post tonight...though i did realize that like 2 hpurs ago

Oh good now we've got this one in the bag

Vash, how've you been?
Vash, what does ND sound like to you right now?

[teacon7]

I feel oddly buddied by rd.

Teacon, you go from asking others to join you on ND, to moving off of him yourself. How exactly do you currently read ND?

Great question moscow.
I didn't vote ND for ND's sake. I got a scum vibe on emc from an earlier interaction, and wanted to see emc's reaction to a growing wagon on ND, precisely because emc made a point of saying, early on, that he wouldn't vote ND. (in this scenario, emc is maybe scum with godfather!ND.)

For ND proper - he's goofing around, maybe a really towny reaction test, maybe ballsy godfather play to try to draw a copscan, maybe he actually is high. Or he's unbanned!krellin with a name change. Dunno. Given his tone rn we'll probably end up lynching him to find out what he's doing, though I hope we don't D1 him. But other than spammy *noise* from him, I've not actually seen a whole lot of scum *signal.* Not a strict nullread but a wash of plusses and minuses. washread.

[EspressoPatronum]

@teacon. As promised, I had a look through to figure out my thoughts on emc. While some of his posts have an edge of banter/spam to them, I found a lot of them to be contributing to the discussion.

Regarding his alignment, I find it hard to say. If I had to say who I would rather vote for, I would put Percy and ND ahead of him.

That being said, I'll direct you to two of emc's posts that I found strange.
#227 - this post was his "hedgy" post, as someone pointed out. Nothing incriminating imo, but it may be useful later on as we compile more evidence for/against emc.
#247 was very interesting. I think two possibilities flow from this post:
First, it makes emc appear as a thoughtful town. Even though he was under some town pressure (note - this has mostly subsided in favour of Percy and ND, according to the vote bot), he seems to have a cool head.
Second, the other side of this coin is that he's trying to APPEAR as a thoughtful town to remove the heat. Feigning thoughtfulness and/or indecision is a classic mafia move in irl games, and I'm sure it's the same on forum. If I were in emc's position and I were town, I would very likely be pushing for whoever had the most votes. From a cost/benefit analysis, it's you (a confirmed town) versus an unknown.... that's a safe pick every time.

Again, I don't think any of the above is incriminating per se, but it's worth noting.

[teacon7]

This game is vanilla (a 1 shot doc and a 2/3 shot cop don't change it much) so giving reads are one of the best ways to build info.

This is a good point.

@all - give reads at ends of phases. Especially if you're town and we're ignorantly lynching you, but everyone should in case you get NK'd. It'll help us later in the game.

@all - could we be the first game ever to listen to a dead player's reads? I remain hopeful that someday this will happen.

[teacon7]

Sheriff Tupper held up his hands trying to calm the crowd in the lobby. "Folks! Folks! I ain't gonna say one thing or another about who we know to be here or not be here. You all just be assured we got the situation under control."

We're free to +1 gm posts, right? The in-flavor callGM responses is great. Keep it up.

[teacon7]

oh god not hte policy lynch lurker bs that is straight scum talk.

Either that, or he's rusty as hell.

@emc
@ND
What did I miss about policy lynching lurkers? I know I've been gone for a while, but iirc several games have been won by deep cover scum lurkers.

[EspressoPatronum]

HAHA look at this guy. Doesn't read the game and wants me to compile a post for him. Fuck him. lol.

Isn't it in your best interest as town to make it easier for other town to (a) follow along with your thoughts and (b) to not vote for you? It's a team game, after all.

I give plenty of deep thoughts.

Okay, and all I'm asking is for you to highlight them for me in one post. If you're not willing to help people follow your train of thought, you aren't very useful to the town.