MAFIA 45 GAME THREAD - BETWEEN A ROCK AND A...ROCK

[yavuzovic]

Apologies xorxes, I won't be listening you and I'm really upset for that.
Can someone scumslip by tomorrow?

[xorxes]

@yavu... why was the wagon on you scum motivated? Or rather why do you know/think it was?

Because a player suggests killing me, then another obeys that and the first one comes and creates a wagon. Doesn't that look like a scum behaviour?

Not in the context where a townie was already in the lead, unless someone else was in danger of being lynched. So you could make a case for one of them being scum if you think Electronic/Jamiet was scum as well and they were trying to prevent his wagon growing, since he was the second wagon after bo.

What is your read of Jamiet?

[brainbomb]

Hmm, so much information gained there

I think there was some information gained actually. If bo had flipped scum, then the people trying to start a counterwagon would have been suspect. Since he flipped town, they actually get some townie points because scum would probably have been happy leaving things as they were. So Neph and damo get townie points, Durga maybe as well. rdrivera was under some pressure by Vecna so I think him being active EOD is less AI.

woah woah slow down
so the people who mislymched a townie are cleared because scum.wouldve preferred a counterwagon onto other town?

[brainbomb]

are you a fucking idiot xorxes?

[xorxes]

Sorry I missed EOD. bo_sox self voting when he was already the top wagon was odd, it looks like he did not even know the vote count. One interesting thing from EOD is that rdrivera got within one vote of bo_sox at 38 minutes before EOD, but then his wagon disappeared. No one else even received a third vote until Vecna voted for yavuzovic with one minute left.

What do you make of rivera's wagon disappearing? The wagon was Vecna-Durga-damo, and Durga was the first one to leave. Do you think scum Durga was maybe bussing and then protecting teammate rivera, or something else?

[xorxes]

I have read up to page 10, and to that point, I see one or perhaps two people softing or crumbing Doc. I also see one person, who should know better, apparently PR fishing, *cough* Bozotheclown. I see Moscow perhaps townslipping, or perhaps faking a townslip. Xorxes looks town.

I think lynching lurkers in this set up is a good idea. So far my slot has been king lurker, but that's gonna change.

I don't like Durga claiming that she is going to be drunk all week. This smells fake. She's currently TD for a major ongoing tournament, and has been replying promptly to messages and PMs about the tourney. I think she's relying on the fact that she's a frequent lurker, and anchoring. #2 scumread currently.

Alternate scumteam is Flav and Darg.

Interesting nobody responded to Ezio's item claim.

I am enjoying the amount of flavour. Only a minority of GMs (in which I include myself) take the time to put real work into the flavour, and I'm glad to see it here.

Why did you think it was interesting that nobody responded to Ezio's item claim, in a game without items?

[worcej]

Again, where do you get this feeling that I am better than what I put into this weekend?

Worcej seems a lot me when I am scum and got in defensive mode...

But I second the scum vibes from Dargo after that post, it doesn't seem natural and he prepared to jump in almost any ship that depart.

In fact, ##vote Dargo, him and Worcej being wagons could be interesting.

Claesar tunnel into Ezio isn't scummy per se, but his lack of engagement after Brain took over may be, not a bad wagon too.

@worcej, is rd scum as well now?

The argument that I am scum because I am over defending myself is immensely better than the 4 reasons you gave for why I am scum.

[worcej]

Worcej seems a lot me when I am scum and got in defensive mode...

But I second the scum vibes from Dargo after that post, it doesn't seem natural and he prepared to jump in almost any ship that depart.

In fact, ##vote Dargo, him and Worcej being wagons could be interesting.

Claesar tunnel into Ezio isn't scummy per se, but his lack of engagement after Brain took over may be, not a bad wagon too.

I think you don't really know what my town game is rdr. I typically crack under pressure, put out a hard claim, and then get angry at people pushing me.

This time, I have nothing to HC because I've lied about it enough in the past to make xorxes and damo stop bothering and I am just pointing out I am an easy mislynch right now. Neph and dargo look like shit for this.

I've addressed darg's case, so here is Neph's case:

Yes yav is quite a decent scum possibility but today we should consider lynching worcej and that is probably the best cause so far.

- Vecna was the only person to seriously post against worcej from memory
- Worcej indicated that he wasn't keen to focus on lurkers, despite posting 3
times between that conversation and his post. This screams of looking for
cheap towncred.
- Has time to give feedback to the GMs about how to run the game but not time
to provide meaningful input
- His vote on Vecna was worthless. Vecna was not being scumread by anyone and
I showed last game that even when a lot of people consider him to be off he is
difficult to lynch, let alone D1 when he is the highest poster. It was an easy
option to go off wagon and not even attempt to bring someone else into
contention. This screams of scum that is content with the lynch.

I'll address each like so:

1. So? Just because Vecna shaded me and he was town immediately makes me scum? I said my position numerous times and I was clearly wrong. If being wrong is scum, I guess we're all going to be scum at some point this game.
2. Yes, I do not think focusing only on lurkers on D1 is wise - I stand by the theory that 'scum lurk on D1' is horseshit for our meta on webdiplo, unless you are looking at a normally strong town player (xorx and Vecna). Prior games confirm this behavior. Smart scum come out the bat and try to engage and make noise, thus why I looked closely at Vecna at first - he knows his late game is bad.
3. Yes, I did have time to post a comment about GMs on N1, but are you complaining that I didn't post much on N1? I posted more than MF and xorxes, while posting similar numbers and content (not identical counts, but content is damn close) as darg, Vecna, and Durga. What is your point about me not posting much during the night?
4. So because I voted on someone who was town, I am therefor scum? Your point makes little sense, just like the being wrong about Vecna theory means I am scum.

TL;DR - Neph's theory/reasoning behind me as scum comes off fabricated upon my read. It's all weak and it's an easy push to make since darg already started it.

So far, only one noob is sheeping darg still. If you want me to be a wagon, go for it - lynch me and confirm my town allignment, but then I want the next wagons to be Darg and Neph for sure on D3.

##vote darg

I mean once again, 90% sure I started it but w/e

I never said you didn't start it. You voted first, but I addressed darg's fabrications of my playstyle before broaching your weak pushes on players.

[xorxes]

Well that didn't take long to read.

Vecna and Durga were really shitty during EoD. They both need looking at.

Durga switching from rdrivera back to bo_sox after damo made the vote close by voting for rdrivera does look questionable. However, I don't see why a scum Durga would vote for bo_sox when she did the first time, it appeared bo_sox was already headed for a mislynch.

If ElectronicJamiet or rivera are scum then scum did have a reason to solidify the bo lynch. If not, Durga's back and forth looks more towny.

[worcej]

TLDR.

Wagons today should be worcej/Jamie

What happened to yav suddenly?

[worcej]

Netphyths looks very fake here. Commenting on bits and pieces without seeing wider context. Not looking townie at all.

100% agreeing with this post.

[xorxes]

Loving this level of contribution from the "new" post exam MF as well...

I'm assuming this was sarcasm.

[yavuzovic]

Yes I was supposed to sleep, let's assume that I told that after this post.

@yavu... why was the wagon on you scum motivated? Or rather why do you know/think it was?

Because a player suggests killing me, then another obeys that and the first one comes and creates a wagon. Doesn't that look like a scum behaviour?

Not in the context where a townie was already in the lead, unless someone else was in danger of being lynched. So you could make a case for one of them being scum if you think Electronic/Jamiet was scum as well and they were trying to prevent his wagon growing, since he was the second wagon after bo.

What is your read of Jamiet?

A towny was already in the lead?? How would you know that except they are scum. With your words xorxes, a towny was already in the lead and those scums preferred not to be called on a town lynch.
Jamiet, he's been aggressive but I don't remember he didn't even make a word about me. He agreed with some of my cases though. I need to reread his interactions with other players to have a concrete conclusion. Can this wait?

[xorxes]

I think Rdrivera is asking if I scumread Vecna.

If so, yes I do.

I don't like that Jamiet and rivera were scumreading Vecna just before he dies.

[xorxes]

Oh. I apologize I just noticed I am not supposed to post til EON. my bad. pretend I posted all that tomorrow

Why would you not be allowed to post till EON? That would suggest you were not doc or hooker.

[xorxes]

So the best you've got after nearly 72 hours is that I voted you therefore must be scum?

I'm assuming damo and vecna are also your other two scumreads?

Do you have any other insights?

Provoking post. Didn't you create a wagon on me? Weren't you so willing to kill me, without a reasoning? Your only argument was my connections, what connection did I have other than Flavius? There was obviously many better wagons but you focused on me and suggested lynching me.
About damo and Vecna, I think Vecna's vote must be NAI, it was late and he knew I wouldn't br lynched most probably. I suspect damo, as he jumped on that wagon as soon as he saw.

This is a ridiculous observation. There were 2 minutes or less to EOD so by definition anybody jumping on such a late wagon is doing so 'as soon as he saw'.

I took bo's self vote as being town indicative (correctly) and basically was willing to support any competing wagon I thought had half a chance.

Self voting is not town indicative, it's just anti-town behavior with no alignment indication. Scum do it sometimes when they are desperate because some people take it as being town indicative.

[brainbomb]

Oh. I apologize I just noticed I am not supposed to post til EON. my bad. pretend I posted all that tomorrow

Why would you not be allowed to post till EON? That would suggest you were not doc or hooker.

It was because percy wanted to write my arrival into the flavour post

[FlaviusAetius]

Honestly, Vapor probably isn't a mafia, he's made an impassioned defense of himself and like you said @brainbomb yesterday, when someone is accused the truth comes out, as they desperately defend themselves, I think he did that quite well.

Also he said Vecna was his favourite player, so he probably wouldn't kill him, because he probably knows Vecna would have him last on his list

Probably the most intense change D1 -> D2. Not sure if it indicated scum intentionally playing dumb D1 or just getting his feet but I like this kind of post

I had a chat with brainbomb about Mafia, and nepth too, those really helped me, and also reading all the posts really helped me learn stuff.

Also about worcej, it seems more and more likely he is a scum. I mean cmon guys, Cleasar? He has barely even talked, that isn't a mafia.

[FlaviusAetius]

this is my last day of posting so I want at least to get 1 scum

Vapor is hard town if he did ask for a sub, just look at how annoyed he got at me tunneling him last game and now this. These are pure

Totally agreed, he isn't a scum, Im sure if he was, he would of made more of an effort to keep playing the game

[FlaviusAetius]

TLDR.

Wagons today should be worcej/Jamie

I firmly am of the belief that if someone left the game, its highly likely they arent scum