MAFIA 45 GAME THREAD - BETWEEN A ROCK AND A...ROCK

[FlaviusAetius]

I think it means the Turbo wagon where you change at the last moment

[FlaviusAetius]

Also I'm not even sure about worcej anymore, my vote is staying but there's so much information out now, is there anyway we can do what Moscow did and just not lynch anyone

[Jamiet99uk]

Also I'm not even sure about worcej anymore, my vote is staying but there's so much information out now, is there anyway we can do what Moscow did and just not lynch anyone

Talk us through how that helps town.

[Jamiet99uk]

I don't follow the thought process of a person who says "now we have lots of information so let's not lynch anyone".

[Jamiet99uk]

Come at me Claesar, where art thou hiding?

[yavuzovic]

I can't stop scumreading damo after he created a wagon on me out of nothing (I don't count his reasoning about my 'connections') and this wagon became the second biggest wagon. I believe - or want to believe that there was at least one scum on me. As we learned Vecna is town, I suspect both damo and Neph. My guts suggest me to move with Damo.
##vote Damo

I didn't create the wagon.

Nor did I mention connections. That was Neph who was also the wagon creator.

My reason was that I never understand what you're saying. However that is not quite true. I mostly don't understand what you're saying and when I do you are usually wrong (just like this instance).

My vote remains.

My vote too, yes I remember it wrong and you didn't vote for connections but it was you who started the wagon.

I could lynch Yav. Never understand what he's trying to say.

Neph voted me upon this post. You don't have to be the first voter to be the one who started the wagon.

[yavuzovic]

Come at me Claesar, where art thou hiding?

I also would like to hear from Cleasar.

[Jamiet99uk]

Interesting.

Damo calls for a Yav lynch. Neph votes for Yav, and then Damo joins.

Later Damo claims he wasn't the one who started the wagon.

What do you gotta say abou dah, Damio?

[worcej]

[snip...]
Worcej, though gets my morning joe vote. While part of me hates voting for someone on the basis of non-participation, worcej, where he IS posting only: argues with Vecna a LITTLE bit... mostly OMGUS...and then overnight makes some pro-GM posts. Worcej is better than this.

##VOTE worcej

Again, where do you get this feeling that I am better than what I put into this weekend?

At some level I am comparing your over games to your disengaged self here. So put on your solving hat now

I never take my solving hat off, but building a case on D1 actions and then being wrong (like I was with Vecna) begins to erode credibility over time. This has come up in numerous previous games of mine.

[worcej]

[snip...]
Worcej, though gets my morning joe vote. While part of me hates voting for someone on the basis of non-participation, worcej, where he IS posting only: argues with Vecna a LITTLE bit... mostly OMGUS...and then overnight makes some pro-GM posts. Worcej is better than this.

##VOTE worcej

Again, where do you get this feeling that I am better than what I put into this weekend?

Worcej seems a lot me when I am scum and got in defensive mode...

But I second the scum vibes from Dargo after that post, it doesn't seem natural and he prepared to jump in almost any ship that depart.

In fact, ##vote Dargo, him and Worcej being wagons could be interesting.

Claesar tunnel into Ezio isn't scummy per se, but his lack of engagement after Brain took over may be, not a bad wagon too.

I think you don't really know what my town game is rdr. I typically crack under pressure, put out a hard claim, and then get angry at people pushing me.

This time, I have nothing to HC because I've lied about it enough in the past to make xorxes and damo stop bothering and I am just pointing out I am an easy mislynch right now. Neph and dargo look like shit for this.

I've addressed darg's case, so here is Neph's case:

Yes yav is quite a decent scum possibility but today we should consider lynching worcej and that is probably the best cause so far.

- Vecna was the only person to seriously post against worcej from memory
- Worcej indicated that he wasn't keen to focus on lurkers, despite posting 3
times between that conversation and his post. This screams of looking for
cheap towncred.
- Has time to give feedback to the GMs about how to run the game but not time
to provide meaningful input
- His vote on Vecna was worthless. Vecna was not being scumread by anyone and
I showed last game that even when a lot of people consider him to be off he is
difficult to lynch, let alone D1 when he is the highest poster. It was an easy
option to go off wagon and not even attempt to bring someone else into
contention. This screams of scum that is content with the lynch.

I'll address each like so:

1. So? Just because Vecna shaded me and he was town immediately makes me scum? I said my position numerous times and I was clearly wrong. If being wrong is scum, I guess we're all going to be scum at some point this game.
2. Yes, I do not think focusing only on lurkers on D1 is wise - I stand by the theory that 'scum lurk on D1' is horseshit for our meta on webdiplo, unless you are looking at a normally strong town player (xorx and Vecna). Prior games confirm this behavior. Smart scum come out the bat and try to engage and make noise, thus why I looked closely at Vecna at first - he knows his late game is bad.
3. Yes, I did have time to post a comment about GMs on N1, but are you complaining that I didn't post much on N1? I posted more than MF and xorxes, while posting similar numbers and content (not identical counts, but content is damn close) as darg, Vecna, and Durga. What is your point about me not posting much during the night?
4. So because I voted on someone who was town, I am therefor scum? Your point makes little sense, just like the being wrong about Vecna theory means I am scum.

TL;DR - Neph's theory/reasoning behind me as scum comes off fabricated upon my read. It's all weak and it's an easy push to make since darg already started it.

So far, only one noob is sheeping darg still. If you want me to be a wagon, go for it - lynch me and confirm my town allignment, but then I want the next wagons to be Darg and Neph for sure on D3.

##vote darg

[Jamiet99uk]

Worcej, you and Claesar are the main wagons so far today.

What do you think of Claesar?
What do you think about Damo and Yavuzovic?

[dargorygel]

I'm fine being a counterwagon to worcej... becoming more and more confident in that gut/read.

Has anyone any thoughts about brain's call for consolidation?

Our trend (one day) at EoD has been to have not a lot of people present. So i see what he means... but I am not sure that scum could not coordinate a consolidation earlier.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm fine being a counterwagon to worcej... becoming more and more confident in that gut/read.

Has anyone any thoughts about brain's call for consolidation?

Our trend (one day) at EoD has been to have not a lot of people present. So i see what he means... but I am not sure that scum could not coordinate a consolidation earlier.

We are somewhat consolidated on Worcej and Claesar. Now you are trying to get people off Claesar onto yourself, it appears?

[rdrivera2005]

I'm fine being a counterwagon to worcej... becoming more and more confident in that gut/read.

Has anyone any thoughts about brain's call for consolidation?

Our trend (one day) at EoD has been to have not a lot of people present. So i see what he means... but I am not sure that scum could not coordinate a consolidation earlier.

I don't like consolidation so early on the day. Let's things go and people state and vote on his scum reads and closer to the end we can try to consolidate if needed. If we start to consolidate early all we get is "I prefer X over Y" and an easy way for scum to justify voting a town.

[worcej]

Worcej, you and Claesar are the main wagons so far today.

What do you think of Claesar?
What do you think about Damo and Yavuzovic?

Claesar strikes me as an analytical person like myself who builds more upon witnessing (reading) people post and seeing patterns in analysis. He is currently laser focused on Ezio's role is scum and isn't coming off of it. To me, this is NAI mostly because I have no meta experience with Claesar to make a quick judgement.

Damo is being himself - somewhat worthless. Short messages of meh value and not really contributing anything decent is his town behavior, so to me I wouldn't be shocked if he is VT. Only real content on D1 I recall is he spent a lot of time voting, and discussing the validity of it, a lurker/non-contributor. N1 he was meh, made a point on Durga and then argued with yav. D2 so far is a little wonky, he seems to be pocketing Vapor and posted an 8 person scum pool. It just seems like minimum effort, which is par for the course with damo...

Yav's D1 was absolutely no substance imo. N1 he pushed back on Neph's assertion that yavu is scum due to 'connections', which is really only one person. Sidenote: Did I mention I think Neph is making weak cases on people? Yav's D2 so far has been on Neph, which somehow damo has involved himself on by being himself (worthless).

[worcej]

I don't like consolidation so early on the day. Let's things go and people state and vote on his scum reads and closer to the end we can try to consolidate if needed. If we start to consolidate early all we get is "I prefer X over Y" and an easy way for scum to justify voting a town.

Problem is we are already at this point.

[Jamiet99uk]

I prefer Claesar over Dargorygel over Netphys over Worcej over Rdrivera over Damo.

[Jamiet99uk]

Netscape, stop lurking and come in here and tell us why you're not scum.

[rdrivera2005]

I don't like consolidation so early on the day. Let's things go and people state and vote on his scum reads and closer to the end we can try to consolidate if needed. If we start to consolidate early all we get is "I prefer X over Y" and an easy way for scum to justify voting a town.

Problem is we are already at this point.

Are we? Two 3 votes, one 2 votes and 4 one vote wagons don't look like consolidation.
A single vote change from you to say Damo or from Claesar to Yav changes everything.

[rdrivera2005]

Netscape, stop lurking and come in here and tell us why you're not scum.

Who's Netscape?