MAFIA 44: 'DREAMLAND' GAME THREAD

[yavuzovic]

If alien infected 2 people do far, and 3 tomorrow - assuming the worst case: Infected people aren't dead; alien still needs to infect a ton of players to win - and I can remove Alien DNA from one of you. With Aliens 3 infected + 1 more until we kill them, it's still unlikely them to win. I will use the cure on the person who you think is most likely to be bitten. I still support lynching worcej.

[Vecna]

If we all self vote, we could end up with no information about the alien while we get a town lynch. Choosing five players to vote for worcej guarantees a scum lynch and still provides a good chance to identify the alien, or at least narrow the alien down to a small pool. I do not care who the five players are.

Good point. It's just testing for possibilities today, and there's the additional advantage of having worcej dead early

and town can prolly still win even if alien does hide by voting with their infectee, just lynch all of them in worst case scenario XD (not to mention there's cop with scans that can further help later when it's worth claiming, unless it was Ike lmfao)

Also, if the alien stays hidden today while we lynch worcej, we can try the self vote on day 4.

Lets see some worst case scenario estimation, if we lynch Worcej today and do the plan tomorrow:

-This means the alien gets to control the lynch on day4, potentially mislynching a town PR.
-During the night, he'll get to control the night action of his first infected.
-During day5 he has 4 votes available to him. Say theres two scum available, and they conspire, thats 6 votes. If the assassin is still alive that means a town can be eliminated at this point.

Numberwise:
After lynching Worcej today were at 14 people
NK N3 puts us at 13
Mislynch by alien on D4 puts us at 12.
NK N4 puts us at 11.
Assassin kill puts us at 10 during day 5

This means that scum -could- play kingmaker for the alien on day5.

unless: two or more infections were killed or failed
or Darg was scum and 1 infection failed

[Vaporwave]

Vote Count 3.1
Worcej (4) yavuzovic, Vecna, Bozo, rdrivera
RagingIke297 (2) RagingIke, worcej
Nephthys (1) Nephthys
Jamiet99uk (1) Jamiet
e.m.c.^42 (1) emc
LordQuas (1) LQ
Thamrick (1) thamrick


Endvotes: 1/8 Jamiet99uk

Worcej has the most lynch votes so far.

Non voters: ezio, MoscowFleet, Percy WIlliams, Vapor
Non posters: Ezio, MoscowFleet
Around a day and a half remaining

##VOTE worcej

[thamrick]

Jamie, please chill. It's incredibly UNhelpful to flip out on everyone.

Especially when we pointed out a more logical plan than the first one you were deadset on. And especially when yav is just being typical yav. He plays the game a different way than the rest of us, and that's fine.

[Jamiet99uk]

Vote Count 3.1
Worcej (4) yavuzovic, Vecna, Bozo, rdrivera
RagingIke297 (2) RagingIke, worcej
Nephthys (1) Nephthys
Jamiet99uk (1) Jamiet
e.m.c.^42 (1) emc
LordQuas (1) LQ
Thamrick (1) thamrick


Endvotes: 1/8 Jamiet99uk

Worcej has the most lynch votes so far.

Non voters: ezio, MoscowFleet, Percy WIlliams, Vapor
Non posters: Ezio, MoscowFleet
Around a day and a half remaining

##VOTE worcej

VOTE for YOURSELF

[thamrick]

Did we ever get GM confirmation that alien can still win even after death?

##CALL GM - please clarify
1) Does alien need to survive to win?
2) Can you confirm again that alien is not forced to infect?

[bozotheclown]

Self voting will not kill the alien, it just has the potential to identify him. If the alien infected N1 and his infected is still alive, the alien is not going to kill himself by leaving his vote on himself at EOD. Also, worcej has made it clear he is not going to cooperate by self voting. If you, me, and rdrivera (the uncced driver) vote for worcej while everyone else self votes, worcej will get lynched and the alien will still be identified if there is a N1 infected player around.

Actually, we need five worcej voters to guarantee worcej gets lynched, since the alien could potentially vote for whoever worcej is voting for to put that player at four votes (if the alien has the extra vote from a N1 infected).

5 votes will be too many. We'll still have a pool of like 3-4 people that can contain the alien if Worcej ends up having the extra vote, which means if were unlucky the alien will still win.

Here was my final suggestion:

Although five worcej voters are needed to guarantee his lynch, five worcej voters would increase the chances the alien gets hidden, so I think three worcej voters is best. With three worcej voters, worcej is guaranteed to get lynched unless the alien reveals himself by voting with worcej. I think there is a good chance the alien did not infect anyone N1, but if he did, the only way he will stay hidden with three worcej voters is if the alien and the N1 infected player are in the three worcej voters. To prevent the alien from getting himself and the N1 infected player selected as worcej voters, I think we should have one player pick the three worcej voters, not including himself. As the only town clear, I think rdrivera should be the one to select the three worcej voters.

[Vecna]

It is very unlikely you were roleblocked by a town action, so if you were really roleblocked it is very likely the item thief and the secretary are both still around, which would mean dargorygel was either town, the assassin, or the alien.

I'm not actually sure if Ike misread or I'm misunderstanding mechs again lol
but didn't rdr say that he roleblocked Ike? So why would he say that the first one wasn't directed at him?

Because rdr caused Ike to be RB'd by swapping Ike and Vecna. Scum probably targeted Vecna with RB, but it got swapped onto Ike.

As for N2, it's strange. Doesn't make a lot of sense as the dart. Hopefully someone didn't use the heat gun on him at night. Could be scum RB.

I might have some potential light to shed on this later, but I dont think its the right time yet.

[Vecna]

You both can try to counter spin this to oblivion, but for the town letting me live a day to catch the alien now is the wisest move you could make. Laser focusing on me a scum and disregarding the alien makes you one step closer to doom.

do not fret, worcej dear
there ain't nothin' ya gotta fear

(but your reputation, oh)

carefree, happily you hardclaimed town
but heartbroken, soul-shattered, deep deep down

(because of a secret, oh)

your days are glum,
you randed scum;

(how devastating, :vvv)

so now you brainbomb like a chum

<3

[Vecna]

First of all, we need five votes to guarantee the lynch.

I think there was a decent chance I was infected, especially N2.

As to who should vote
1. Rd - obviously
2. Ezio - If he is a I really want him to lynch himself
3. Jamie
4. Vecna
5. Vapor

I think the people most likely to be infected are; myself, emc, percy, and maybe ike. We should not be on the worcej wagon.

I just posted above this, but why 5?

Also, I don't necessarily think rdr is the best choice. He's obviously clear now, but that's new info that alien wouldn't have had N1 or N2. rdr actually probably would have been near my top choices N1. He frequently makes it to endgame as either alignment (that obviously supposes that alien is familiar with the players)

Still, that actually helps us if Rdrivera is suddenly voting someone else, -if- the alien isnt on the wagon

[thamrick]

I'm not actually sure if Ike misread or I'm misunderstanding mechs again lol
but didn't rdr say that he roleblocked Ike? So why would he say that the first one wasn't directed at him?

Because rdr caused Ike to be RB'd by swapping Ike and Vecna. Scum probably targeted Vecna with RB, but it got swapped onto Ike.

As for N2, it's strange. Doesn't make a lot of sense as the dart. Hopefully someone didn't use the heat gun on him at night. Could be scum RB.

I might have some potential light to shed on this later, but I dont think its the right time yet.

Ok. That's fair.

[Vecna]

@tham

I have to say I strongly disagree with your logic on who was infected. I think they wanted someone that noone really takes much notice of, someone that would get to late game because no team really cares enough about them. This is more likely to be people who are newer hence why I lean me, Percy, emc.

In 41 I was pretty much exclusively townread from D2 and made it through to the final three.

The correct alien play would have been to infect one of the above.

Lets not take it as absolute though. Prediction is also a thing. Bo is also a good target. The aliens scumreads are even better targets (due to the control of night actions).

[Vecna]

actually, ##unvote then

gonna wait and see popular consensus about alien hunting vs killing worcej today before having something up.

and @worcej, why me

can scum holster? I almost wonder if emc is scum and whichever is assassin between emc and worcej managed to contact eachother and are doing some bazillion IQ play where they set emc up for a clear as a fake NK

otherwise I guess it has to be some kind of cop hunt

Not really seeing what youre seeing

[ND]

Did we ever get GM confirmation that alien can still win even after death?

##CALL GM - please clarify
1) Does alien need to survive to win?
2) Can you confirm again that alien is not forced to infect?

1. Yes
2. Not forced to infect.

[thamrick]

I just posted above this, but why 5?

Also, I don't necessarily think rdr is the best choice. He's obviously clear now, but that's new info that alien wouldn't have had N1 or N2. rdr actually probably would have been near my top choices N1. He frequently makes it to endgame as either alignment (that obviously supposes that alien is familiar with the players)

Still, that actually helps us if Rdrivera is suddenly voting someone else, -if- the alien isnt on the wagon

This assumes Rdr would have been infected N1. If he was infected N2 and alien held or the infectee is dead now, it doesn't.

I still absolutely think it's the right play even if alien has taken precautions to avoid the D3 plan.

[Vecna]

Although five worcej voters are needed to guarantee his lynch, five worcej voters would increase the chances the alien gets hidden, so I think three worcej voters is best. With three worcej voters, worcej is guaranteed to get lynched unless the alien reveals himself by voting with worcej. I think there is a good chance the alien did not infect anyone N1, but if he did, the only way he will stay hidden with three worcej voters is if the alien and the N1 infected player are in the three worcej voters. To prevent the alien from getting himself and the N1 infected player selected as worcej voters, I think we should have one player pick the three worcej voters, not including himself. As the only town clear, I think rdrivera should be the one to select the three worcej voters.

How did we get at 5?

Isnt three enough to guarantee a tie at the worst?

[thamrick]

Alright perfect. So I'm less concerned about alien now. I don't really see a way we don't force them out eventually.

I really don't get those who seem fairly convinced emc is alien. I can't imagine a world in which alien, even if they know mafia know who they are, outs themselves rather than forcing mafia to out them. Especially since emc revealed he was NK target before Jamie revealed his scan.

[thamrick]

Although five worcej voters are needed to guarantee his lynch, five worcej voters would increase the chances the alien gets hidden, so I think three worcej voters is best. With three worcej voters, worcej is guaranteed to get lynched unless the alien reveals himself by voting with worcej. I think there is a good chance the alien did not infect anyone N1, but if he did, the only way he will stay hidden with three worcej voters is if the alien and the N1 infected player are in the three worcej voters. To prevent the alien from getting himself and the N1 infected player selected as worcej voters, I think we should have one player pick the three worcej voters, not including himself. As the only town clear, I think rdrivera should be the one to select the three worcej voters.

How did we get at 5?

Isnt three enough to guarantee a tie at the worst?

Theoretically 4.

Self-voter + worcej
Alien + N1 infectee

[Vecna]

I will vote for worcej. You need a strong argument to convince me that lynching alien is better.
Also if we lynch alien tomorrow, it's more likely to detect the alien - since it's possible that the infected can be dead.

Yavuz having such a strong opinion and thinking he knows better on mechanical matters than others after just replacing in feels -strongly- agenda driven

[Vecna]

Funny. I say we can lynch alien tomorrow. This doesn't really help the alien.

And yet you are opposed to a strategy today that would uncover the Alien.

Why not tomorrow. Why are you so willing to lynch it before mafia that has chance to be assassin?

Grasping so hard. If hes the assassin he'll shoot regardless before he dies since its a dayshot.