Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[Maniac]

@Thamrick - i'm reading closely and hear what you're saying.

Demon could still be scum but it doesn't overly concern me for now. If real watcher claims or gets killed then Demon is insta lynch. Until then I'm taking him as clear. I'm not encouraging any real watcher to claim - far from it. If there is a real watcher they should stay hidden.

I'd be very surprised if Demon isn't watcher. If he was scum he wouldn't know if yavuz was VT or COP, but he jumped in straight away to counter Yavuz's claim - and was right. It's only the fact that both claimed to have visited BB N1 that the two claims are linked. It is possible both are false, but that can wait.

How about this. I'll give you a pass and ensure you're not lynched if you drop the subject for today? We need you looking elsewhere - tell me more about MLQ, Balki and Bozo.

[thamrick]

@Maniac - crystal clear.

Have you looked at Bo? Did you read his interaction with RJ at the start of D2? You saw the way he attacked me today when I accused him. That is 100% not how he treated RJ. He was scumreading him at the time. Do you really think Bo has a soft spot in his heart for noobs? Bo wanted distance from RJ.

I'm not suspicious at all of Bozo right now. I'll reread him though.

MLQ - I'll admit has seemed very genuine in a lot of her posts. I think she's experienced enough to fake that though. There's also a lot of forced sincerity (throwing in "borks" and smiley faces to make her argument seem more lighthearted).

-Rj hard defended her and Jamiet still townread her.

-I don't buy her explanation that she was willing to lynch a potential Cop based on believing RHK. You believed RHK too. I thought his claim was more likely true than Yav's. Why weren't you willing to lynch Yav yesterday?


Balki - I still tend to think Balki is town, but I have lingering doubts.

His arguments yesterday weren't very coherent about why to lynch Yav and he seemed willing to draw out two very important PRs to verify a claim that potentially would have given us a scum anyway.

Jamiet voted for him over ND. If Balki was scum, I feel like Jamiet would have thrown the vote on ND and argued self-preservation if it caused ND to flip town. I think Jamiet was trying to create two wagons that weren't him by voting Balki. It makes more sense for Balki to be town in that case to me.

I find it odd how firmly tunneled onto MLQ Balki has been. He hasn't done much investigating outside of MLQ. He doesn't seem to be figuring out the entirety of the puzzle.

His votes look bad, but who am I to cast a stone there? He jumped off Jamiet (self-pres, sure), he voted Vash to tie RJ's wagon, he was pushing the Yav wagon but ultimately decided to lynch ND.

The comment on his Vash vote was very weird to me. I'd like to hear an explanation about it before I consider it too much though.

[rdrivera2005]

@Thamrick - i'm reading closely and hear what you're saying.

Demon could still be scum but it doesn't overly concern me for now. If real watcher claims or gets killed then Demon is insta lynch. Until then I'm taking him as clear. I'm not encouraging any real watcher to claim - far from it. If there is a real watcher they should stay hidden.

I'd be very surprised if Demon isn't watcher. If he was scum he wouldn't know if yavuz was VT or COP, but he jumped in straight away to counter Yavuz's claim - and was right. It's only the fact that both claimed to have visited BB N1 that the two claims are linked. It is possible both are false, but that can wait.

How about this. I'll give you a pass and ensure you're not lynched if you drop the subject for today? We need you looking elsewhere - tell me more about MLQ, Balki and Bozo.

I agree with Maniac. I was one of the biggest pushers of Demon being scum and didn't believe his claim at first, but his reaction to Yav claim seems really organic. He is also heavy tunneling on me, something that doesn't make sense as scum as I am not an easy lynch. And if he is lying we will discover.

So, even not putting him as cleared, I think we need to threat him as cleared until another Watcher claim or die, something I don't believe will happen.

@Thamrick - If you have time would you do an analysis on Reedeer? I have done and still get scum vibes, but it's hard to build a convincing case. I will try to re-read Mean.

[thamrick]

@rdrivera - I will read reedeer after I read Bozo.

I have stated this several times today, but to reiterate, I AM NOT advocating to lynch RHK today. I think he will eventually be revealed as scum by the Watcher or the Watcher flip, or he will prove himself to be Watcher by giving Watcher info. My bet is that he will continue to claim the mafia RB or will make up some BS target that provides no info.

I hope I'm wrong about RHK. I really like him. He writes me hilarious songs. I feel like we think very similarly. Doesn't mean I believe him for doing the things a scum fake-claimer would obviously do.

We can treat him as town for now. Sure.

[thamrick]

Upon Bozo reread - I still lean town on him. Not a whole lot to go off of. I tend to see pro-town moves in most of his posts though.

Clarifying the vote record vs. the bot - I can see scum motivation for this to appear being useful while not really revealing much. But his analysis is pretty good and seems to be trying to figure out what the vote record tells us so I see it as more town.

He seems hesitant to jump to clears based on votes which I see as more town indicative. Town have much more reason to be skeptical while scum have a harder time faking this since they know alignments.

The only knock against Bozo I have is his lack of involvement - but even this isn't that bad as when he has been involved, he has pushed analysis and made good questions.

If anything, Bozo is a deep threat and can be reconsidered later. I don't see anything scummy about him now though.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Tom: "99% sure mean is scum"

Tom: "I’m like 20 pages back yet as I skimmed enough to follow while I was out of town, but didn’t do any analysis or put a whole lot of thought into the game truthfully."

o_O

If you're a town clear, be responsible with that shit and actually read the thread before you post something that's going to get a lot of people onto me without giving reasons, thanks.

[Foxcastle]

Mean, since you seem to be around, I'd like to revisit this question from page 119 (apologies if you responded and I missed it).

demonRHK: Town. I see him as town clear at this point, untouchable. Even if someone CCed him, I’d lean toward lynching the CC. Coming forward to counter yav is a plainly towny thing to do, regardless of yav’s alignment.

Can you clarify this? I think you have some things wrong... DemonRHK claims watcher on Page 88 (under gun pressure from Maniac), including that he watched Brain N1 and Tom N2. Yavuz claims Cop on Page 104, followed on Page 105 by his claim to have investigated Brain and ND. So it's somewhat incorrect to say that Demon countered Yav. Quite the opposite, actually...

[Tom Bombadil]

I am responsible. Thanks. Why'd you try to nk me Mean?

@RHK/Mean:

What do you make of brain saying he had an inno scan on bozo and then getting NK'd?

[Tom Bombadil]

@Mean: I know you've fairly consistently read Balki as scum. Can you condense down a case for me if you still feel that way? I'm having some second thoughts about him as well and I can't exactly place why.

[thamrick]

@rdrivera - tl;dr - I find reedeer more suspicious than Bozo and more likely to be the deep threat. Don't lynch today though

-He was very odd D1 with his hesitance to back up his reads with reasoning (or even list them at all).

-Votes Ezio because other people were scumreading him (including his own scumread rdrivera, though to be fair, reedeer had hedged and backed off his read of rdrivera at the time).

-His Jamiet vote is strange. He clearly was making the vote with Jamiet 2 behind since he noted he was making the vote as rdrivera joined the wagon. He hadn't scumread him at all (though he had barely posted), but votes for Jamiet even though he saw his scumread voting for Jamiet.

-Posted that odd reads list. Very hedgey in his justification of it. Felt the need to clarify that he was aware his last post added no substance.

-Very weak justification for his scumreads. Wont even point to the specific interaction that led him to scumread rdrivera D1. Admits he isn't overly suspicious of rdrivera anymore even though he still has him listed as top, while also listing 2 people that rdrivera was scumreading as also scum.

-Literally distanced himself from his own reads.

-As I stated before, I read reedeer's justification for voting ND as very sincere. He walked it back a slight amount.

-Said he was more active before and after the flu. I literally couldn't tell a difference. NAI but lol.

-Reminds us that he is trying not to lurk... that's a weird comment. RJ also wanted to get noticed doing something pro-town.


Reedeer is suspicious. I'll for sure give you that. I don't think he's a good lynch today as I'm still inclined to believe he just isn't a very good town player. If it gets to the point where we've outed the other 2 scum, sure. Let's lynch reedeer due to these suspicions. I just think he's an easy and possible mislynch.

There have certainly been some weird reedeer defenses and I think that could eventually damn him if he is actually scum.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Tom: "I am responsible. Thanks. Why'd you try to nk me Mean?"

Because you can be an asshole, Tom.

Tom: "What do you make of brain saying he had an inno scan on bozo and then getting NK'd?"

Brain thought lots of things. Also brain claimed his inno scan with so little time left that it was unlikely mafia could change their votes, so I think he was dying before that. I don't think it means anything because brain knew he was bullshitting when he did it and no one bought it nor do I think he intended anyone to. At best, maybe brain thought bozo was town, but that doesn't prove anything about bozo.

[thamrick]

@rdrivera - I also find it odd that you've been saying you are scumreading reedeer but haven't really built a case yourself. You said you have re-read reedeer and are having trouble building a case? Why so sure about him then? Why ask me to look into him if you can't even build your own case?

[Tom Bombadil]

"Because you can be an asshole, Tom."

Well, this isn't true. Have you met the rest of these people? I'm like the most pleasant person here.

If you don't think brain was killed because they thought he was cop, why do you think he was the NK target?

[Foxcastle]

I dunno, 24 minutes seems like enough time for the scum to change a vote. Why do you think that's not enough time, Mean?

[thamrick]

@MLQ - what do you think about Bo throwing shade at you for voting Yav with the same reasoning he says he voted Yav for?

[Balki Bartokomous]

Hey, I'm around. I'm several pages behind, so I'm going to do some re-reading, but if folks have questions for me, now is a good time.

[thamrick]

@Balki - explain this comment please:

Let's flip Vashta.

##Vote Vashta

Snowy would want it that way.

I don't know, I feel a little gross about this. I don't like our lynchpool. But Vashta has done nothing, he may be scum, and he's not helping us if we're town.

Also, why did you eventually end up voting for ND? Still feel good about your decision?

[thamrick]

@Balki - then I would just like your thoughts about the current state of the game, how to proceed, who you suspect and why

[MeanLaQueefa]

Fox and tom, I assume all the mafia have to change their votes over. It is very possible the entire scum team wasn't around to change their votes. The bigger reason I don't think brain was targeted for the cop claim is because no one believed it, brain had already claimed gunsmith and seemed to have faked that one, and brain was a very towny person and had near universal town reads and wasn't as likely to be protected as maniac was. That's probably why mafia targeted him.

Tom, I asked you to not throw around bs statements about me being scum without giving reasons, then you ask me "why you nk me mean?" If you're normally a nice person, why'd you choose to take the low road in that moment?

tham, I'm working on updating my read for bo, his push seems a lot less towny now that yav wasn't scum. I am still leaning town I think though. His dismissal of me seems to fit with the way he's acted before where he doesn't respect the arguments of others but views his as golden. I don't think it is alignment indicative.

Also tom, I'm working on the balki question, it is a long tale of stuff that's going to require some rereading as I'm feeling scummy vibes from him again and I need to sort it out.

[Foxcastle]

Fox and tom, I assume all the mafia have to change their votes over. It is very possible the entire scum team wasn't around to change their votes. The bigger reason I don't think brain was targeted for the cop claim is because no one believed it, brain had already claimed gunsmith and seemed to have faked that one, and brain was a very towny person and had near universal town reads and wasn't as likely to be protected as maniac was. That's probably why mafia targeted him.

What if I told you that, in my (one game) experience, the NK is generally executed on one vote (the vote of scum conducting the kill), and that it's likely that the scum team is operating on consensus, rather than actually holding elections for the NK. Does that change your assessment?

This either points to Mean being town, for not knowing how the Mafia QT works, or Mean being scum and knowing to play dumb about how the Mafia QT works.