Mafia Invitational - Welcome to Wakanda

[bozotheclown]

I am VT.

I obviously have been reading the game poorly, but I was right about looking at non ND voters, I just picked the wrong one.

I think it is safe to say there is no cop in the game if we have an oracle, doctor, and chief.

It appears the scum team is Foxcastle, Ezio, and xorxes.

##VOTE Foxcastle

[bozotheclown]

Damian, are you sure you're claiming Chief?

Haha, yes, we had 4 PRs! :)

Two (maybe three) of Fox-bozo-damian are scum.

Is this a joke or did you forget you were not believing Foxcastle's claim?

[ghug]

It's clearly a joke.


Here's how this is going to work. We'll lynch Foxcastle or we'll lynch bozo. I'm not going to vote yet, but you all will follow me when you do. Damian will vote for the other (or a third wagon at my discretion) on his own to confirm himself.

I was reaction testing with the demand to follow me yesterday. I'm not today. It's MYLO and town needs to vote together, especially given that we're confirming Damian.

My thought currently is that Fox is scum. Bozo may well be too, which would be the main reason for voting him over Fox, not a belief that Fox is town. Best bet is those two and xorxes.

No sheeping me until I tell you to. Go do your own thinking. I like thinking. Ghug hath spoken.

[bozotheclown]

@ghug: Did you receive a message confirming you were saved, so we know for sure the scum did not just withhold the NK?

[bozotheclown]

Also, it's odd being in a game where everyone is pretty easily categorized as a threat on both sides of the game (with the notable exception of Xorxes and me, as xorxes is only good as town and I'm only good as scum). It means these early d1 lynches are going to have significantly more meaning to them.
Unlike most games we play where we usually just pile on a new/bad player who looks shitty early on, we're going to have to play a different game. I suppose we could try to recreate the meta we have in most games and pile on damian for his "scum slip" or "scummy post" or whatever people were talking about on d1, or we could try for a different style.

In my opinion, everyone should make a list. THIS LIST SHOULD BE PRIVATE. KEEP IT IN YOUR OWN PERSONAL DOC. There's no need to show scum what each of us think. Simply put: everyone should be significantly more willing to lynch the bad players, particularly bad scumhunters with a good scum game. Be acutely aware of this as we play this game. Even if you think (for example) xorxes is slightly more likely to be scum (than lets say) me, you should still lynch me because xorxes is so much more likely to catch scum than me, if he's town.
You can do the math of the probabilities yourself to see how large the deltas have to be before it makes sense to lynch the scummier looking person.

Why does it matter more in this game than in a regular game? In most large mafia games, there are going to be baddies as scum, and I mean SHITTERS. People who make mistakes early and often, and get their scum asses caught. How people react to these early mistakes is often telling, and even mediocre players can get accurate reads from their scum teammates. I don't expect to see mistakes, and poor reactions to those mistakes, like I would in a larger game. As a result, keeping around good scumhunters is significantly more important in this game than in a normal game, and I want to make sure everyone is on the same page with this.

I thought Ezio was crumbing doctor in this post since he had "DOC" in his capitalized sentence. Now I suspect he was crumbing to set up a potential fake claim.

[Ezio]

Also, it's odd being in a game where everyone is pretty easily categorized as a threat on both sides of the game (with the notable exception of Xorxes and me, as xorxes is only good as town and I'm only good as scum). It means these early d1 lynches are going to have significantly more meaning to them.
Unlike most games we play where we usually just pile on a new/bad player who looks shitty early on, we're going to have to play a different game. I suppose we could try to recreate the meta we have in most games and pile on damian for his "scum slip" or "scummy post" or whatever people were talking about on d1, or we could try for a different style.

In my opinion, everyone should make a list. THIS LIST SHOULD BE PRIVATE. KEEP IT IN YOUR OWN PERSONAL DOC. There's no need to show scum what each of us think. Simply put: everyone should be significantly more willing to lynch the bad players, particularly bad scumhunters with a good scum game. Be acutely aware of this as we play this game. Even if you think (for example) xorxes is slightly more likely to be scum (than lets say) me, you should still lynch me because xorxes is so much more likely to catch scum than me, if he's town.
You can do the math of the probabilities yourself to see how large the deltas have to be before it makes sense to lynch the scummier looking person.

Why does it matter more in this game than in a regular game? In most large mafia games, there are going to be baddies as scum, and I mean SHITTERS. People who make mistakes early and often, and get their scum asses caught. How people react to these early mistakes is often telling, and even mediocre players can get accurate reads from their scum teammates. I don't expect to see mistakes, and poor reactions to those mistakes, like I would in a larger game. As a result, keeping around good scumhunters is significantly more important in this game than in a normal game, and I want to make sure everyone is on the same page with this.

I thought Ezio was crumbing doctor in this post since he had "DOC" in his capitalized sentence. Now I suspect he was crumbing to set up a potential fake claim.

Except here's the problem bozo: I don't crumb. I never have and I never will, and anyone who has even half of a meta read on me knows that. Therefore crumbing a claim would be terrible. It's not a thing I've done, or ever will do.

[bozotheclown]

It's clearly a joke.


Here's how this is going to work. We'll lynch Foxcastle or we'll lynch bozo. I'm not going to vote yet, but you all will follow me when you do. Damian will vote for the other (or a third wagon at my discretion) on his own to confirm himself.

I was reaction testing with the demand to follow me yesterday. I'm not today. It's MYLO and town needs to vote together, especially given that we're confirming Damian.

My thought currently is that Fox is scum. Bozo may well be too, which would be the main reason for voting him over Fox, not a belief that Fox is town. Best bet is those two and xorxes.

No sheeping me until I tell you to. Go do your own thinking. I like thinking. Ghug hath spoken.

If we are going to use D4 to test damian's claim, we should no lynch, because if we mislynch today, the game is over. We are better off in lylo D5 with damian's alignment confirmed. If damian is confirmed as town, we can lynch Foxcastle D5, and if damian is confirmed as scum, we can lynch damian D5.

[Ezio]

It's clearly a joke.


Here's how this is going to work. We'll lynch Foxcastle or we'll lynch bozo. I'm not going to vote yet, but you all will follow me when you do. Damian will vote for the other (or a third wagon at my discretion) on his own to confirm himself.

I was reaction testing with the demand to follow me yesterday. I'm not today. It's MYLO and town needs to vote together, especially given that we're confirming Damian.

My thought currently is that Fox is scum. Bozo may well be too, which would be the main reason for voting him over Fox, not a belief that Fox is town. Best bet is those two and xorxes.

No sheeping me until I tell you to. Go do your own thinking. I like thinking. Ghug hath spoken.

If we are going to use D4 to test damian's claim, we should no lynch, because if we mislynch today, the game is over. We are better off in lylo D5 with damian's alignment confirmed. If damian is confirmed as town, we can lynch Foxcastle D5, and if damian is confirmed as scum, we can lynch damian D5.

We're going to lynch fox next anyways. This gives us the best chance to get an extra lynch. If Vecna guesses correctly again, we get an extra lynch. NoLynch sucks here Bozo.

[bozotheclown]

Waiting on bozo now, but I don't really feel the need to let him hold us hostage.

Damian can go ahead and answer.

Ezio, explain the sudden xorxes read change from D2.

Damian, are you aware that your role is confirmable?

Vecna, anything to say?

Foxy, why bozo? How do Balki's flip and your scan change your reads?

Oh why I townread him so strongly yesterday but scumread him today?
Hugely: he was wrong again and didn't do enough for town. As I said, xorxes as town isn't gonna be wrong three days in a row.
The entire read was because he said the phrase "town points". It's a phrase he has never used as scum (that I've seen) before this game. It was rather flimsy, but it corresponded nicely with him making some posts that were productive.
I also wanted as much of the conversation to be about me as possible, and this seemed like a good way to do it; it might have even caused then to NK me if I was right.
All things considered, it seemed like a good ploy to go for.

It did not take long to determine this is not accurate. xorxes used the phrase "town points" in M35 when you and xorxes were both scum. I also agree that it is "flimsy", so it is hard to believe you would consider him town cleared based on this.

[bozotheclown]

@xorxes: What do you think of Ezio's reason for considering you town cleared, do you think it was fabricated or do you think he really believe it?

[bozotheclown]

It's clearly a joke.


Here's how this is going to work. We'll lynch Foxcastle or we'll lynch bozo. I'm not going to vote yet, but you all will follow me when you do. Damian will vote for the other (or a third wagon at my discretion) on his own to confirm himself.

I was reaction testing with the demand to follow me yesterday. I'm not today. It's MYLO and town needs to vote together, especially given that we're confirming Damian.

My thought currently is that Fox is scum. Bozo may well be too, which would be the main reason for voting him over Fox, not a belief that Fox is town. Best bet is those two and xorxes.

No sheeping me until I tell you to. Go do your own thinking. I like thinking. Ghug hath spoken.

If we are going to use D4 to test damian's claim, we should no lynch, because if we mislynch today, the game is over. We are better off in lylo D5 with damian's alignment confirmed. If damian is confirmed as town, we can lynch Foxcastle D5, and if damian is confirmed as scum, we can lynch damian D5.

We're going to lynch fox next anyways. This gives us the best chance to get an extra lynch. If Vecna guesses correctly again, we get an extra lynch. NoLynch sucks here Bozo.

I know Foxcastle is scum, but for those who might not be as certain about Foxcastle, a no lynch D4 avoids the risk of mislynching for the loss.

[bozotheclown]

I reread rdrivera and think he is a scum possibility also, so I do not know which two out of Ezio, xorxes, and rdrivera are scum.

[Ezio]

Waiting on bozo now, but I don't really feel the need to let him hold us hostage.

Damian can go ahead and answer.

Ezio, explain the sudden xorxes read change from D2.

Damian, are you aware that your role is confirmable?

Vecna, anything to say?

Foxy, why bozo? How do Balki's flip and your scan change your reads?

Oh why I townread him so strongly yesterday but scumread him today?
Hugely: he was wrong again and didn't do enough for town. As I said, xorxes as town isn't gonna be wrong three days in a row.
The entire read was because he said the phrase "town points". It's a phrase he has never used as scum (that I've seen) before this game. It was rather flimsy, but it corresponded nicely with him making some posts that were productive.
I also wanted as much of the conversation to be about me as possible, and this seemed like a good way to do it; it might have even caused then to NK me if I was right.
All things considered, it seemed like a good ploy to go for.

It did not take long to determine this is not accurate. xorxes used the phrase "town points" in M35 when you and xorxes were both scum. I also agree that it is "flimsy", so it is hard to believe you would consider him town cleared based on this.

Where? Show me. He does not use the phrase "town point(s)" anywhere in that game.

[bozotheclown]

Oh why I townread him so strongly yesterday but scumread him today?
Hugely: he was wrong again and didn't do enough for town. As I said, xorxes as town isn't gonna be wrong three days in a row.
The entire read was because he said the phrase "town points". It's a phrase he has never used as scum (that I've seen) before this game. It was rather flimsy, but it corresponded nicely with him making some posts that were productive.
I also wanted as much of the conversation to be about me as possible, and this seemed like a good way to do it; it might have even caused then to NK me if I was right.
All things considered, it seemed like a good ploy to go for.

It did not take long to determine this is not accurate. xorxes used the phrase "town points" in M35 when you and xorxes were both scum. I also agree that it is "flimsy", so it is hard to believe you would consider him town cleared based on this.

Where? Show me. He does not use the phrase "town point(s)" anywhere in that game.

Okay, so I'm caught up on this game. Two main thoughts re: mechanics.

First, re: nametags. No one should peek at their nametags, the best thing to do is wait a couple days, until the numbers are lower, and have everyone peek AND claim. This will reveal who bo sox is, but at that point we likely get a confirmed town when we need it most, sure maybe it reveals a PR, but I'm willing to take the risk at that point.

Re: Gun Holder
First off, guns are bad, they rarely ever kill mafia and only catch mafia when they choose to shoot someone who is obv town, and they cause a bunch of confusion while stifling discussion. Since the guak gun reveals the shooter and flavor names are revealed upon death, we will know when this gun is fired aside from a statistical anomaly. As such I think we should all agree that if someone fires this gun, they are likely scum or stupid, and should therefore lynch them.
I'm not talking about not firing today, to be clear. I'm talking about NEVER firing that gun if you have it, so don't.

Further more, I think anyone who is in favor of this idea (Ezio, bozo and yavuz upon first skimming) are suspect. Not a guarantee of being mafia, but I think it certainly increases the chances they are, since it gives plausible deniability to likely kill a townie.

I think I agree on both counts )peeking and guakgun) but I'm not giving you many townie points for this because giving sound advice on mechanics is a typical way for mafia to try to get towncred, and also someone else (I think ghug) had already said the same thing on holding the shot.

Do you really think yavuz is suspect for this though? You are saying he figured out that shooting now is better for mafia and then tried to influence the gun holder to shoot? That's ludicrous. Mafia never blatantly advocate for actions that they think are anti-town. And yavu's town meta is that he always sounds scummy no matter what he says anyway. He is always an easy wagon.

@yavu: have you been Mafia in any previous game?

[bozotheclown]

@Ezio: Do you now think xorxes and rdrivera are scum?

[bozotheclown]

@xorxes: Do you now think Ezio and rdrivera are scum?

[bozotheclown]

@rdrivera: Do you now think Ezio and xorxes are scum?

[xorxes]

@xorxes: What do you think of Ezio's reason for considering you town cleared, do you think it was fabricated or do you think he really believe it?

Fabricated.

[xorxes]

I know Foxcastle is scum, but for those who might not be as certain about Foxcastle, a no lynch D4 avoids the risk of mislynching for the loss.

You can't possibly be seriously arguing for this.

[xorxes]

I reread rdrivera and think he is a scum possibility also, so I do not know which two out of Ezio, xorxes, and rdrivera are scum.

Only Ezio, I think.