MINI MAFIA IV GAME THREAD

[rdrivera2005]

And at this point I think we probably should no-lynch today.

[brainbomb]

yup ##Vote no lynch
##End

[brainbomb]

man I really cant shake this terrible feeling its actually rivera

[rdrivera2005]

man I really cant shake this terrible feeling its actually rivera

If it was me I would have just pilled into Xorxes. Are you preparing for lylo in case I don't vote Xorxes?

[brainbomb]

man I really cant shake this terrible feeling its actually rivera

If it was me I would have just pilled into Xorxes. Are you preparing for lylo in case I don't vote Xorxes?

no but youve concerned me.

[brainbomb]

and its not because you always roll scum lol

[xorxes]

Day 1:
damo (4) foodcoats worcej Nephthys thdfrance
xorxes (3) Ike DrCJG Jamiet
Ike (2) brainbomb xorxes
Jamiet (1) damo
worcej (1) bozo

Day 2:
Jamiet (7) bozo worcej xorxes brainbomb Nephthys Jamiet DrCJG
xorxes (1) foodcoats

Day 3:
DrCJG (4) bozo xorxes rdrivera worcej
xorxes (1) brainbomb
bozo (1) DrCJG

From Day 1 the most interesting thing was Jamiet's last minute jump to my wagon. Could this be seen as a bus? Yes, any vote for anyone that is not a clear can be a bus. Is it likely to be a bus? I guess knowing that it wasn't I'm not the one in the best position to judge that, but I don't see much reason to think so. An easier explanation is that he didn't want to end voting next to Nephthys (or even worse Nephthys and thd). Why jump to my wagon and not to Ike's? Because he had been scumreading me on and off all day so he had a good excuse, and also DrCJG had just jumped to my wagon so he might have seen it as an opportunity to lynch me over damo who he didn't know was a PR. If brainbomb is the last scum then he wouldn't want to vote there either (that also applies to me), and he didn't have much of an excuse from his previous reads either.

From Day 2 there's not much to glean since we had a PR report. Only thing to notice is that bozo was already voting Jamiet before the reveal, and I'm being accused of voting for him too quickly after the reveal, although it was an obviously genuine one because it made zero sense for worcej to fakeclaim at that point.

From Day 3 the thing to notice is that brainbomb voted against the consensus, which could be interpreted as him knowing how DRCJG would flip, or him just not scumreading DrCJG.

I was a wagon all three days, with two townies, one scum, and one unknown voting for me. bozo was a minor wagon day three with one town voting him. Neither brainbomb nor rd were wagons at any EOD. In fact, I don't think anyone ever voted for brainbomb all game.

Conclusions from all of this? I guess not much.

[bozotheclown]

Day 1:
damo (4) foodcoats worcej Nephthys thdfrance
xorxes (3) Ike DrCJG Jamiet
Ike (2) brainbomb xorxes
Jamiet (1) damo
worcej (1) bozo

Day 2:
Jamiet (7) bozo worcej xorxes brainbomb Nephthys Jamiet DrCJG
xorxes (1) foodcoats

Day 3:
DrCJG (4) bozo xorxes rdrivera worcej
xorxes (1) brainbomb
bozo (1) DrCJG

From Day 1 the most interesting thing was Jamiet's last minute jump to my wagon. Could this be seen as a bus? Yes, any vote for anyone that is not a clear can be a bus. Is it likely to be a bus? I guess knowing that it wasn't I'm not the one in the best position to judge that, but I don't see much reason to think so. An easier explanation is that he didn't want to end voting next to Nephthys (or even worse Nephthys and thd). Why jump to my wagon and not to Ike's? Because he had been scumreading me on and off all day so he had a good excuse, and also DrCJG had just jumped to my wagon so he might have seen it as an opportunity to lynch me over damo who he didn't know was a PR. If brainbomb is the last scum then he wouldn't want to vote there either (that also applies to me), and he didn't have much of an excuse from his previous reads either.

From Day 2 there's not much to glean since we had a PR report. Only thing to notice is that bozo was already voting Jamiet before the reveal, and I'm being accused of voting for him too quickly after the reveal, although it was an obviously genuine one because it made zero sense for worcej to fakeclaim at that point.

From Day 3 the thing to notice is that brainbomb voted against the consensus, which could be interpreted as him knowing how DRCJG would flip, or him just not scumreading DrCJG.

I was a wagon all three days, with two townies, one scum, and one unknown voting for me. bozo was a minor wagon day three with one town voting him. Neither brainbomb nor rd were wagons at any EOD. In fact, I don't think anyone ever voted for brainbomb all game.

Conclusions from all of this? I guess not much.

On day 1 Jamie voted for xorxes before DrCJG:

Fine.

I do.

##VOTE.XORXES

##VOTE Xorxes

watch for a tie

The bot did not count Jamie's vote because of the format. Jamie voted again right before EOD.

xorxes saying Jamie voted for him after DrCJG to argue Jamie was not bussing is inaccurate.

I previously suggested Jamie's incorrectly formatted vote could have been to minimize the risk of xorxes getting mislynched, but Jamie argued that the GM would have accepted the vote. Even if that is true, I was watching the bot and did not see Jamie's vote show up until after EOD, which affected my decision to not vote for xorxes to try to tie the vote.

[xorxes]

bozo

D1: A lot of time spent on the hypoclaim and no-lynch. My thinking at the time was he could be the Cop/Tracker and was trying to set up a scheme to give his reports while remaining under cover, the no-lynch suggested he didn't want to risk having to claim before he had a report as well, but I didn't give a lot of weight to it because bozo likes discussing that type of thing as any role.

The rest of the day he spent on the really weak case against worcej, mostly arguing about it to Jamiet. I townread both of them for that. It's interesting that Jamiet challenges him to find proof that worcej ever said what he said, which of course he could easily find because we all knew it was there, including Jamiet who was in that game where worcej boasted about never faking his hardclaims.

N1: One of his first posts is:

My guess is there was one scum on damo, one on xorxes, and one on RagingIke.

We now know there was (at least) one on damo and one on me. His whole case on me is essentially based on this guess, unless I'm forgetting something else. I also find this very interesting:

I do not think Jamie would defend worcej like he has if they were both scum, but if worcej is town, I could see Jamie being scum defending worcej.

because at the time I thought worcej could be scum or town, but either way Jamie was town.

This is really weird as well:

Maybe Jamie is the scum, and the scum team is thdfrance, Jamie, brainbomb. Or maybe Jamie was bussing xorxes and it is thdfrance, Jamie, xorxes.

Basically everyone still alive was a candidate to be scum with Jamie if Jamie ever flipped scum. And then this:

why is jamie only scum if im scum.

I didn't say that, but if Jamie is scum I would be suspect you more.

I think this is what first started me question bozo though:

@bozo, would you mind posting a full read list for me, I'm struggling to put together some things.

With regards to your explanations I can see, to a degree, where you are coming from although I don't think Jamie would jump off a lead wagon when it is that close if he was scum. One vote would have swung it to either No lynch or Xorxes. I don't see a reason for a scum Jamie to change his vote last minute like that.

Personally I am town reading Jamie more now.

I do not have any strong town reads yet, but I do not see anything particularly suspicious from foodcoats, RagingIke, DrCJG, or xorxes. You and thdfrance both voted for damo when he was the top wagon without giving much of a reason. Jamie pushed a bad case on damo and seemed more sure about worcej than I think he should have been. I do not like brainbomb's votes for xorxes or me. I still question worcej's resisting saying he was town and his aggressive defense of it. Although I do not think anything xorxes said was scum indicative, it concerns me that 5 different players voted for him, it could indicate bussing was involved.

How could 5 people voting for me indicate bussing was involved?

D2: Opening post:

xorxes has somewhat alleviated my suspicion of him for now, and brainbomb seems more town like, so my preferred lynch pool is down to Jamie, thdfrance, and worcej.

Here are my complete reads:
town lean: DrCJG, foodcoats, Nephthys
neutral: xorxes, brainbomb
scum lean: Jamie, thdfrance, worcej

My first choice is Jamie, since he has failed to address a number of my questions.

##VOTE Jamiet99uk

I think nobody else was scumreading Jamiet at the time, and his whole case was that he had failed to address his questions, which is about as unconvincing a case you can make on someone.

Also, with the light of Jaime - I literally think Jaime was setting up bozo to take the noose for causing a tie.

And TBH, Jaime was also pocketing me like a mofo on D1... which I think was to play more into getting me to trust Jaime and feel confidence in him being town instead of actually dissecting bozo's argument.

It's a shit feeling, which I am prone to do, but fuck Jaime strikes me as scum...

I did not consider that Jamie was trying to set me up to tie the vote, because his first, invalid, vote for xorxes came before I said I would tie the vote. However, I find it suspicious that he asked me if I would vote for xorxes over damo before he voted for xorxes, then voted for xorxes after I said I would not. I also find it suspicious he used an invalid format to vote for xorxes, and only corrected it after it was pointed out, and less than 1 minute before EOD. I did not see his corrected vote until after the deadline, or else I might have voted to force a tie. It was these things that made me consider that Jamie could have been bussing xorxes. Even if xorxes is town and Jamie therefore didn't care if xorxes got lynched, Jamie trying to get off the damo wagon at EOD looks questionable.

He doesn't find Jamiet suspicious for something others may find him suspicious, he only finds him suspicious for things that nobody else would take seriously.

After worcej's claim:

I see no reason to doubt worcej's claim, unless we get a counterclaim. I still consider the thdfrance slot a top scum candidate, and I am still concerned Jamie could have been bussing xorxes.

Why would he even mention a counterclaim when he was already suppossedly suspecting Jamiet and worcej fakeclaiming made no sense whatsoever? The only argument he ever makes for Jamiet bussing me is that it could have happened.

N2: After food's claim:

I recommend shooting rdrivera, it will be hard for rdrivera to explain thdfrance's voting on D1.

I think that was before rdrivera had a chance to say anything. But then three minute later:

@foodcoats: Although I am not opposed to shooting xorxes, I think you have some good points in your case on him.

And then:

ok its TDHFRANCE, DRCGJC or Bozo. one of them is town

If you shoot me, and assuming Mafia kills worcej, then tomorrow it will be

bozo
brainbomb
DrCJG
foodcoats (Vig)
Nephthys
rdrivera

4-2 mylo. Not lynching would be pointless because the NK would then be foodcoats, so not very helpful.

I still don't have a clue who the scum are, but it's unlikely to be brainbomb, probably not bozo though I'm less sure, and of the last three if I had to guess right now I'd say Nephthys and rdrivera, but it could just as well be DrCJG.

I am getting the feeling xorxes and brainbomb are the scum team, I no longer think shooting rdrivera is the best option.

So when brainbomb suggests shooting bozo and I suggest shooting Nephthys he suddenly gets the feeling that bb and I are the scum team.

D3: This could be bozo trying to make me suspect brainbomb:

@xorxes: What do you think of this:

And I think brainbomb might be the final scum, and is hard-clearing xorxes in case I still shot them.

This though:

2 scum on damo to save town xorx is weird.
2 scum on town xorxes MAYBE
rivera cant be scum with xorx

bozo can be scum if xorx is town.

No one on damo's wagon placed their vote when xorxes was close to being lynched, so to say they would be trying to save xorxes does not make any sense.

This post is actually defending me, although I can't make out exactly what was it that bb was trying to say there.

The rest of D3 is him pushing DrCJG and I agreed with most of what he said, so I can't really find him scummy for that. The lurking part was not that convincing to me, but I had other reasons to suspect DrCJG already.

Possible scumteams assuming Jamie flips scum
- Jamie - Bozo - Food
- Jamie - Xorxes - Food

This shows Nephthys started scum reading xorxes earlier than I thought, and this was obviously before foodcoats claimed, so he had no reason to think xorxes was at risk of being shot. I may be making an assumption that Nephthys does not like to bus, but I suspect he would not list his other teammate with Jamie here.

@bozo: what made you change your mind about this?

N4:

I am afraid I got sidetracked when I reread Nephthys after finding out he was scum, combined with how I interpreted DrCJG's vote for rdrivera. Before that, I felt it was either brainbomb or xorxes, and I had concluded xorxes was more likely. I have disagreed with a lot of what xorxes has said all game and have suspected him for it, but most of it was not necessarily scum indicative, so I could never be sure if I was just seeing things differently. However, after rereading xorxes again, there are just too many things that I would not expect from xorxes as town.

What made you decide brainbomb is town, and what are some of the many things you would not expect from town xorxes? Having reread you, it seems to me that your case is all based on the assumption that Jamiet was bussing me, which you were pushing from even before we knew Jamiet was scum.

[xorxes]

The bot did not count Jamie's vote because of the format. Jamie voted again right before EOD.

xorxes saying Jamie voted for him after DrCJG to argue Jamie was not bussing is inaccurate.

You're right. DrCJG had already indicated his willingness to vote for me though, and had been voting for me for a good bit earlier, so it doesn't make much difference.

I previously suggested Jamie's incorrectly formatted vote could have been to minimize the risk of xorxes getting mislynched, but Jamie argued that the GM would have accepted the vote. Even if that is true, I was watching the bot and did not see Jamie's vote show up until after EOD, which affected my decision to not vote for xorxes to try to tie the vote.

Do you really think Jamiet did that on purpose because he assumed you would not notice his vote?

[xorxes]

I will do full rereads for thd/rivera and brainbomb later. For now I need a break.

[bozotheclown]

The bot did not count Jamie's vote because of the format. Jamie voted again right before EOD.

xorxes saying Jamie voted for him after DrCJG to argue Jamie was not bussing is inaccurate.

You're right. DrCJG had already indicated his willingness to vote for me though, and had been voting for me for a good bit earlier, so it doesn't make much difference.

I previously suggested Jamie's incorrectly formatted vote could have been to minimize the risk of xorxes getting mislynched, but Jamie argued that the GM would have accepted the vote. Even if that is true, I was watching the bot and did not see Jamie's vote show up until after EOD, which affected my decision to not vote for xorxes to try to tie the vote.

Do you really think Jamiet did that on purpose because he assumed you would not notice his vote?

Probably not, but I would not be surprised if he purposely used an invalid vote format.

[rdrivera2005]

Sorry guys I started the ISO on Bozo but didn't finish and just can't make the ISO on Brain I need to cast a vote.

##vote no-lynch

[bozotheclown]

@xorxes: I will just copy parts of your post, so that this is not too long.

N1: One of his first posts is:

My guess is there was one scum on damo, one on xorxes, and one on RagingIke.

We now know there was (at least) one on damo and one on me. His whole case on me is essentially based on this guess, unless I'm forgetting something else. I also find this very interesting:

This is not what my whole case is based on, it was just a guess. Also, brainbomb was voting for RagingIke.

[bozotheclown]

bozo
How could 5 people voting for me indicate bussing was involved?

5 different players voted for you at some time on D1, but one hour before EOD you had no votes. It seemed like it could be an indicator that 1 or 2 scum were voting for you at some point during the day before moving their vote.

[bozotheclown]

D2: Opening post:

xorxes has somewhat alleviated my suspicion of him for now, and brainbomb seems more town like, so my preferred lynch pool is down to Jamie, thdfrance, and worcej.

Here are my complete reads:
town lean: DrCJG, foodcoats, Nephthys
neutral: xorxes, brainbomb
scum lean: Jamie, thdfrance, worcej

My first choice is Jamie, since he has failed to address a number of my questions.

##VOTE Jamiet99uk

I think nobody else was scumreading Jamiet at the time, and his whole case was that he had failed to address his questions, which is about as unconvincing a case you can make on someone.

This is not true, my case was not based just on Jamie not answering my questions, it was based on the things I was questioning him for in the first place. The fact that he seemed to be evading my questions was the reason I voted for him over my other scum reads. I think it is pretty obvious for anyone who just reread my posts that I was already suspecting Jamie, so this conclusion from xorxes reinforces my suspicion of him.

[bozotheclown]

Possible scumteams assuming Jamie flips scum
- Jamie - Bozo - Food
- Jamie - Xorxes - Food

This shows Nephthys started scum reading xorxes earlier than I thought, and this was obviously before foodcoats claimed, so he had no reason to think xorxes was at risk of being shot. I may be making an assumption that Nephthys does not like to bus, but I suspect he would not list his other teammate with Jamie here.

@bozo: what made you change your mind about this?

I figured you or Jamie told him to not bus more. Although this could still point more to brainbomb, it is not enough to offset the other reasons I suspect you.

[xorxes]

##VOTE no-lynch before I forget

[bozotheclown]

What made you decide brainbomb is town, and what are some of the many things you would not expect from town xorxes? Having reread you, it seems to me that your case is all based on the assumption that Jamiet was bussing me, which you were pushing from even before we knew Jamiet was scum.

After D1 I thought Jamie was scum, and his actions at the end of D1 made me think he could have been bussing you. However, that is not what my case is based on.

Here are some examples of things I would "not expect from town xorxes":

1. Your reaction to DrCJG after he voted for you.
2. Your following brainbomb onto RagingIke D1.
3. Your town read of Jamie after D1.
4. Your END vote on Jamie immediately after worcej's claim D2.
4. The unexplained change of your Nephthys read from one of your strongest town reads to one of your top two scum reads N2.
5. The apparent change in your read of me after I started pushing DrCJG D3.

[bozotheclown]

I was hoping we could get a consensus on xorxes today. Unless xorxes get NKed, I do not see anything changing my mind D5.