MINI MAFIA IV GAME THREAD

[bozotheclown]

I see no reason to doubt worcej's claim, unless we get a counterclaim. I still consider the thdfrance slot a top scum candidate, and I am still concerned Jamie could have been bussing xorxes.

##Vote bozo

Why are you referencing this post?

[bozotheclown]

screw it, hes tried to push everyone on their weaknesses rather than on things beyond superficial. bozo is too obvious early game where Jamie freaks out pages 6-8 and the reason seems like it has to be that bozo is voting no lynch. and Jamie is forced to fake townread him for it.

Did you have a sudden change of opinion on my suspicion of DrCJG?

[brainbomb]

screw it, hes tried to push everyone on their weaknesses rather than on things beyond superficial. bozo is too obvious early game where Jamie freaks out pages 6-8 and the reason seems like it has to be that bozo is voting no lynch. and Jamie is forced to fake townread him for it.

Did you have a sudden change of opinion on my suspicion of DrCJG?

I see no reason why dear Jamiet99uk enters the thread, sees you voting no lynch and raises zero fuss. townreads you for it and proceeds to act crazy next 2 pages like somethings wrong.

Jamie oddities:

I don't think scum Bozo would be daft enough to propose a No Lynch.

Beancomb and Boozoo are here. Let's have their input.

Why does Jamie put us together unless hes protecting you?


On page 13 Jamie rambles about bozo case on worcej for a dozen posts.

and then concludes:

Conclusion: Bozo's case is much, much weaker than he has attempted to present. He wanted us to believe that Worcej had a stated policy, like some fucking moral code, of never, ever, hardclaiming as scum. He has failed to prove that Worcej ever stated such a position.

I just want to say one more thing about the mis-use of the term "claim" in this game, particularly by Bozo, but also by Damo. Consider these three statements:

1) "I am the Vigilante! It was I who shot Ezio!"
2) "Don't lynch me, I am a valuable Town PR!"
3) "I am not scum"

Statement (1) is a claim. It is a textbook hard claim.
Statement (2) while somewhat vaguer, is also a form of hard claim.

Statement (3) is not, in any meaningful sense, a claim. It is certainly not a hard claim. This is a game in which if you are not town, you will always nonetheless want to be read as town. Since everyone wants to come across as town and nobody wants to be read as scum, just generally saying you're on the side of the town and not the scum is not a meaningful or relevant claim in any way whatsoever, because pretty much everyone either makes it, implies it, or wants to be read as if they have.


Bozo is behaving as if saying "I'm town" is not only a claim, but a significant hard claim. This is bol​locks.

Jamiet99uk
Day-1 07:30
page 13 / orig Current Reads:

SURE-FIRE TOWN: Jamiet99uk

PROBABLY TOWN: Brainbomb

TOWN-LEANS: ThdFrance, Foodcoats, Worcej, Netphys, DrCRG

VILLAGE IDIOT: Bozo

[brainbomb]

Scum doesnt make excuses for people they can lynch bozo.

[brainbomb]

Jamie vs Bozo battles get intense. it starts to look almost authentic.

page 13
■Jamie screams at bozo declaring his worcej case shit. he also states were never lynching worcej.

Jamiet99uk
Day-1 00:09
page 18 / orig
↑bozotheclown: "I do not find worcej's "if you do not believe me lynch me" defense very compelling."
It's more compelling than your shit-tier "case".

Jamiet99uk
Day-1 00:08
page 18 / orig Why hasn't Damo even appeared to defend himself?

Jamiet99uk
Day-1 00:07
page 18 / orig Why isn't Xorxes more of a wagon?

Jamiet99uk
Day-1 00:06
page 18 / orig This EoD is at a weird time.

Jamiet99uk
Day-1 00:06
page 18 / orig Ok bozo would you make a Xorxes counterwagon instead?

Jamiet99uk
Day-1 00:05
page 18 / orig We're not lynching Worcej, stop being so obsessed Bozo, get out of your tunnel

[brainbomb]

Jamiet99uk
Day-1 00:03
page 18 / orig
↑bozotheclown: "Why not? He is a better alternative to damo."
Is he fuck. Your case is terrible. You're tunnelling to fuck. Worcej has defended himself quite convincingly. Damo is utterly stinking.

too angry and unecessary

jamie is angry youre on a solo wagon instead of lynching xorxes.

bozotheclown
Day-1 00:05
page 18 / orig @RagingIke, who would prefer to be lynched between damo and worcej?

bozotheclown
Day-1 00:05
page 18 / orig
↑Jamiet99uk: "Ok bozo would you make a Xorxes counterwagon instead?"
No, I do not suspect xorxes either.

bozotheclown
Day-1 00:04
page 18 / orig
↑Jamiet99uk: "We're not lynching Worcej, stop being so obsessed Bozo, get out of your tunnel"
Why not? He is a better alternative to damo.

bozotheclown
Day-1 00:02
page 18 / orig If the choices are damo and xorxes I will vote to tie it deliberately.

why didnt you tie it again bozo? did I miss your answer

[bozotheclown]

why didnt you tie it again bozo? did I miss your answer

What do you mean tie it again? The vote was never tied.

[brainbomb]

last one.

bozo is scum confirmed n1. he changes demeanor after damo death.
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g=1005&part=p19-27

bozotheclown
Night-1 23:35
page 19 / orig My guess is there was one scum on damo, one on xorxes, and one on RagingIke

By the way, with how Jamie demanded bozo stop a vanity wagon, regardless of if bozo IS OR ISNT scum, xorxes is cleared by that alone.

[brainbomb]

why didnt you tie it again bozo? did I miss your answer

What do you mean tie it again? The vote was never tied.

it was

damo666 (4)
foodcoats worcej Nephthys thdfrance
xorxes (3)
RagingIke297

bozotheclown
Day-1 00:02
page 18 / orig If the choices are damo and xorxes I will vote to tie it deliberately

You stayed on a vanity wagon.

I ask again why you didnt follow thru on your promise

[bozotheclown]

last one.

bozo is scum confirmed n1. he changes demeanor after damo death.
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g=1005&part=p19-27

bozotheclown
Night-1 23:35
page 19 / orig My guess is there was one scum on damo, one on xorxes, and one on RagingIke

By the way, with how Jamie demanded bozo stop a vanity wagon, regardless of if bozo IS OR ISNT scum, xorxes is cleared by that alone.

I am not even following you now. Why would a scum change "demeanor" after a town death? What does any of what you referenced have to do with xorxes?

[bozotheclown]

why didnt you tie it again bozo? did I miss your answer

What do you mean tie it again? The vote was never tied.

it was

damo666 (4)
foodcoats worcej Nephthys thdfrance
xorxes (3)
RagingIke297

bozotheclown
Day-1 00:02
page 18 / orig If the choices are damo and xorxes I will vote to tie it deliberately

You stayed on a vanity wagon.

I ask again why you didnt follow thru on your promise

How is 4-3 tied?

I did not tie the vote because the last vote I saw was 5-2.

[brainbomb]

maybe you didnt get this.

and just in case you didnt... Jamie is voting xorxes as counter wagon to a town lynch with neph on that wagon

damo 4
xorx 3
ike 2
worcej 1

hes yelling at you to vote xorxes.

you say youd vote to tie it if those were the only options.


xorxes is cleared by this. jamie has no need to be trying to be on xorxes if hes scum with xorxes.

he ASKS you specifically to vote xorxes.

you confirm to him you would sooner tie it than risk lynching either.

Jamie doesnt want a tie here. think from his pov, what he wants is a last second shift onto xorx

[brainbomb]

he doesnt want you to join damo. he wants you to lynch the good player and get off your island. hes mad at you and it feels more like scum on scum annoyance than he actually thinks youre town. he always attacked your case rather than your alignment carefully. and this isnt out of fear of rousing your suspicions.

hes actively wanting you to get in on his idea

[bozotheclown]

maybe you didnt get this.

and just in case you didnt... Jamie is voting xorxes as counter wagon to a town lynch with neph on that wagon

damo 4
xorx 3
ike 2
worcej 1

hes yelling at you to vote xorxes.

you say youd vote to tie it if those were the only options.


xorxes is cleared by this. jamie has no need to be trying to be on xorxes if hes scum with xorxes.

he ASKS you specifically to vote xorxes.

you confirm to him you would sooner tie it than risk lynching either.

Jamie doesnt want a tie here. think from his pov, what he wants is a last second shift onto xorx

If I am right about DrCJG and xorxes is town, I do not think Jamie cared too much if damo or xorxes was lynched.

[bozotheclown]

he doesnt want you to join damo. he wants you to lynch the good player and get off your island. hes mad at you and it feels more like scum on scum annoyance than he actually thinks youre town. he always attacked your case rather than your alignment carefully. and this isnt out of fear of rousing your suspicions.

hes actively wanting you to get in on his idea

Have you ever seen a scum try to communicate to another scum this way on D1?

[DrCJG]

SCUMLEAN

• Bozo -
  • Had Bozo has null, until the last couple hours... His latest arguments about how the last scum wouldn't bus his teammate as a reason to not shoot rdr makes sense... but comes across as incredibly scummy to me... especially when he emphasized that he was the first to list rdr as a top scum.

What does that mean now thet he can't be scum with rdr?

For the most part it moves his arguments to NAI... but the fact that he emphasized that he had started the vote on rdr still came across as trying to look extra towny in his argument.

[*] Nephthys

• D1 I found Neph to have been quite blendy... he didn't take any unpopular opinions... didnt push anyone.. and seemed to flitter between discussions and follow up with polite requests for elaboration
• Voted Damo to encourage discussion… when in fact he pushed the wagon to 5-1 (granted almost 24hrs before EOD), but doesn’t mention Damo again until 3 mins before EOD to question why Damo wouldn’t defend himself and that he would be willing to move off Damo… reads as trying to prepare for Damo flipping town.
• D2 Neph makes numerous posts and emphasizes that he no longer townclears me and instead just townleans me... 1) I don't know how he could have had me towncleared unless he is scum; and 2) I am not sure whey he felt the need to emphasize this while not scumreading me or having any arguments against me.
• He also comes out with extensive analysis of Jamie starting about here:
  Ultimately concluding that Jamie was scumlean prior to Worcej's claim... but simultaneously decides Worcej should be lynched over Jamie:

  Assuming there had been no claim and it was down to Jamie vs Worcej as wagons I would prefer to lynch Worcej based on the play we have seen so far.
  
  Worcej has not added much if any new information (pre-claim) or any real attempt to move the game forwards.
  Jamie at least put forward some cases (regardless of integrity)
  
  I think we lose more if we mis-lynch a town Jamie than a town Worcej.
  I think it is easier to tell the false direction from a scum as the game gets smaller.
  
  Overall this would make me think that it would be easier to catch a scum Jamie than a scum Worcej late game.

  This reads as pretty forced to me... what does he mean by "regardless of integrity" and why do we "lose more if we mis-lynch a town Jamie than a town Worcej." As I was quickly reading yesterday, his post felt genuine like he was really unsure if Worcej's claim was true... but in hindsight it looks like an attempt to see if he could save his scummate for a turn.
  
  Furthermore, this post seems very out of character of D1 Neph.

This long analysys of Neph before the flip is very interesting, but I'm tired and hungry so I will look at it again tomorrow to see what it tells me.

I had Ike as a townread in my EON1 reads as the mafia NK'd him, I had Neph as a scumlean in my EON2 reads as he was shot and flipped town... I had two correct reads... I've also had my share of wrong reads: see e.g., I fell for Jamie's baited move to Xorxes and townread Jamie...

I don't think there is much to be gleaned from my scumread on Neph. My points were not intended to sway the shot, but to indicate my position and reasoning going into D3.

Here DrCJG starts distancing himself from Nephthys by including him in his scumleans. I find the following line in particular something a scum would say instead of a town with a legitimate scum read: "Furthermore, this post seems very out of character of D1 Neph." Despite listing Nephthys as one of his three scum reads, he concludes with "I am starting to believe more that Bozo/rdr could be the scum team".

Neph had moved from Null to scumlean to me and my readlist reflected that. Perhaps I could have gone into more detail about Neph's shift, but it seemed clear from what I had written... D1 he was very blendy and polite... by N2 he was writing pretty extensive internal reflections that included more aggression and internal contradictions.

And yes, I had moved Bozo from Null to scum lean largely based on his recent arguments that seemed like he was trying to defend rdr and it felt like they matched up well... so my opinion of the scum team was bozo/rdr.

[DrCJG]

##VOTE thdFrance

My bad, ##VOTE rdr

Do you townread bozo?

What do you make of the Jamiet thing about terrorists with thd?

No, Bozo is null to me. Though with only 1 scum left i suppose that is similar to a townread. I need to iso him again based on Neph's flip.

I had pegged the terrorist stuff as NAI junk. It seemed like classic Jamie to nit-pick some early setup flavor. But, I have never reread it in context since Jamie's flip, so I will reread it today.

[DrCJG]

##VOTE thdFrance

My bad, ##VOTE rdr

As bad as thdfrance's votes from D1 looked, considering that we know damo, worcej, and RagingIke are all town, his switch from worcej to damo when the vote was damo 4 worcej 3 RagingIke 2 Jamie 1 does not make much sense as scum, although he might have just wanted to go along with the majority.

Fair point, I suppose town!thd's vote on Worcej following Damo's request could have been a joke vote in his mind or to see where votes go with it 2-2... thus his vote onto Damo could have been his first real vote based on reading arguments against Damo (@thd, if you are town... this is a good example of why it helps town for you to give some reasoning).

I don't see a good reason for scum!thd to make that vote change... ##unvote
@ Worcej - thoughts?

[DrCJG]

One of you would KNOW whether that was the reason.

Are you talking about just DrCJG and I? Are you sure one of us is the remaining scum?

Yes and no.

I am not sure what you are getting at Xorxes...

[DrCJG]

Sorry I forgot about the game... reading, what’s going on.

This seems like an excuse for inactivity, i doubt he forgot about the game.

Eh, believe me or don't... I had tickets to see Hamilton Friday night and was watching football on Saturday.