MINI MAFIA IV GAME THREAD

[brainbomb]

and none of them are really helping me to get a grip on towny ISO moments.

[bozotheclown]

Not a lot to add at this point:

Strongest townreads are foodcoats, bozo and Nephthys, but it's not unthinkable that one of them could be scum.
Second layer: Jamiet and brainbomb.
Third layer: worcej and RagingIke, not very strong scumreads.
Scummiest: DrCJG and thdfrance

If you shoot me, and assuming Mafia kills worcej, then tomorrow it will be

bozo
brainbomb
DrCJG
foodcoats (Vig)
Nephthys
rdrivera

4-2 mylo. Not lynching would be pointless because the NK would then be foodcoats, so not very helpful.

I still don't have a clue who the scum are, but it's unlikely to be brainbomb, probably not bozo though I'm less sure, and of the last three if I had to guess right now I'd say Nephthys and rdrivera, but it could just as well be DrCJG.

What changed your opinion on Nephthys?

@xorxes: Here is another question I think you did not answer.

[brainbomb]

xorxes has not really convinced me its bozo
bozo has convinced me it might be xorx
rdr and DR have convinced me of very little about each other.

and worcej is mostly just reinforcing the notion I may be scum who didnt carry out a kill.

normally I create my own direction in a mafia game but here Id really like a case as to why each person susses the person they fos

[brainbomb]

bozo is hawkish here and menacing. his only wolfy tone is worrying about me setting up mislynches by analyzing the wagons.

[brainbomb]

SIGNIFICANT PRE-WORCEJ CLAIM VOTES

Nephthys
Day-2 43:21
↑Nephthys: "Oh...

I would like everyone to have a closer look at thd,

Day 1 - 18 posts

10- shit posting/Inconsequential
6 - reg..."
I want to see him at least existent today so ##vote tdhfrance

■this possibly townspews TDH/Rivera? its bizarre to enter a day bussing a scumbuddy.


My votes
Bozo, Foodcoats, TDHFRANCE (invalid vote spelled wrong)


bozo votes Jamie
worcej votes jamie

He literally made it easier, in the last minute mind you, for bozo to possibly tie the vote, because the vote between the two became 4-3 with bozo able to place it on xorxes for the tie, which I imagine he would then leverage to further portray bozo as scum.

Does anyone not find this to be really particularly bad?

##vote Jaime

You owe us some explanations, sir

This is worcej putting vote alongside bozo. bozo has bussed before and knows how. but it seems like with so many PR alive and plenty of scummy moments, bozo has no need to bus his roleblocker carelessly right out the gate day 2.

and heres what happens as the very next vote ITT

Vote - xorxes
xorxes
Day-2 31:43
page 30 / orig
↑foodcoats: "Reread day 1 and now I feel like bozo, CJG and Neph all had discussions about strategic frameworks (hypoing vs. Pure scu..."
Those discussions tell us zero about their alignment (except it's unlikely they are both scum because spending so much time discussing mechanics between two scum I don't think I've ever seen). That kind of "contribution" is the easiest way for scum to appear involved when in fact they are not helping in any way to find scum. Town also participate in those discussions, so it means nothing one way or the other.

Much more interesting to me was DrCJG fabricating an excuse to scumread people out of their lack of interest in those discussions when he knows full well that that means nothing. So ##VOTE DrCJG

And @thdfrance, we need you to come and tell us who your teammates are

[brainbomb]

##Vote xorxes

I just cant see it as being anyone else.

[bozotheclown]

I went back and looked at Nephthys now that we know he was scum. To start with my conclusion, I now think DrCJG is most likely the remaining scum.

##VOTE DrCJG

[bozotheclown]

Town; Neph, Brain, CJG, Worcej, food
Scum; Bozo, Xorxes, rdriver

Shoot a scum.

Town; Neph, Brain, CJG, Worcej, food
Scum; Bozo, Xorxes, rdriver

Shoot a scum.

i was gonna ask why nephs townier than me but well said. youre him

Note worcej isn't top/second top. This isn't really in order lol

This is more of an ordered off the top of my head

Town

Neph
Worcej
Food
Brain
Cjd
Bozo
Xorxes
Driver

Scum

Based on the way Nephthys tried to defend Jamie even after he was tracked, I think he likely left the remaining scum out of his scum reads. The leaves only DrCJG and brainbomb.

[bozotheclown]

My case against tdh.

Oh...

I would like everyone to have a closer look at thd,

Day 1 - 18 posts

10- shit posting/Inconsequential
6 - regarding mechanics, mainly the hypo.
2 - voting

The votes were as follows;

I'll join you ##VOTE worcej

##VOTE Damo

Although I don't really have strong feelings in any direction I think that of all the arguments made the one against Damo is the best. So I'm going to park my vote here for now.

I find both of these to be rather meh and currently am scumreading tdh as a result.

I want to see him at least existent today so ##vote tdhfrance

I really do not think Nephthys busses thdfrance here, rdrivera is now my top town read (besides worcej).

[bozotheclown]

In general, Nephthys only give vague reads of DrCJG:

CJG - townlean - Was scum with me in cultafia and so I paid a reasonable amount of attention to his style of posting, seems different here.

- I revert my townclear of CJG (was based of meta)

CJG no longer TC

@food you say I aligned my views of CJG/thd with you. Can you elaborate on this for me.

I made an early TC of CJG based of meta and then revoked that early D2 when I could no longer stand by it.

Also, to further the above, I never actually said I scum read CJG, I only revoked the TC clear I made. He is currently null/townlean for me. I do not wish to lynch CJG at this stage.

[bozotheclown]

Now some things from DrCJG:

DRCJG EON1 Readlist
7 TOWN, 3 SCUM

TOWN

• DRCJG - A slinky slink type, whose routinely high W/Post count leads people to think he doesn't post much.

TOWNLEAN

• Jamie -
  • Seems very relaxed compared to usual... he got a little frustrated "defending Worcej," but otherwise he gave logical arguments and appeared to be taking in information from all sources rather than tunneling.
  • Xorxes was off wagon when Jamie moved Damo to Xorxes and made it 4-3 Damo-Xorxes... scum!Jamie could have trusted scum!Xorxes to vote for self preservation... but several other people should have been around at EOD that could have jumped on Xorxes and all in all it seems like it would have been far to big of a risk for the reward... therefore I assume if Jamie is scum then Xorxes is not.

DrCJG's read of Jamie after D1 is worse than that of xorxes, and that was one of the main reasons I suspected xorxes.

[bozotheclown]

Sorry I forgot about the game... reading, what’s going on.

This seems like an excuse for inactivity, i doubt he forgot about the game.

[bozotheclown]

My bad, ##VOTE rdr

So you think rdrivera was bussing Nephthys?

Yes, especially given it was a pretty weak bus.

@ Bozo - So you think Jamie bussed Xorxes D1 in the final 3 minutes with Damo offwagon, Brain on a low posting Ike, and you threatening to try and tie, which could have led to a shift in either direction?

Also, with it 5-1, a mislynch and a NK would put us at 3-1 (LYLO) such that a no lynch would make it 2-1 (MYLO)... given we have a townclear, I don't think no-lynching gets us much... but I am not sure how it hurts us... thoughts?

At this point I think Nephthys is scum. The other one is harder to see, it could be DrCJ or maybe Brain.
I have a solid townread on Bozo and a not so solid on Xorxes.

rdrivera lists Nephthys as his top scum read, not something I would characterize as a weak bus.

[bozotheclown]

DRCJG EON2 Readlist
6 TOWN, 2 SCUM

TOWN

• DRCJG
• Worcej – Well done. Given his hardclaim leading to Jamie’s death without a counterclaim… nothing more to say
• Food – assuming he takes his shot.

TOWNLEAN

• Brainbomb – Calling out Jamie’s mistake and soft claiming doctor (especially if Food is Vig) looks extremely towny. If he is scum it was a beautiful bus. I tend to believe he is town.
• Xorxes -
  • Obviously, I didn’t find his D1/N1 to be towny
  • But, I think it unlikely Jamie was bussing Xorxes with his vote at the EOD1… it was completely possible that a couple people could have been present at EOD and felt (as I did) that the lack of Damo’s defense + the lack of movement to save him made the Damo wagon look like a bad choice… in such a small setup with a tracker/cop, I think it would have been too bold of Jamie to move to scum!Xorxes so late.
  • Furthermore, despite still thinking I am scum his reads have evolved. Moreover, he responded to my EON post and since I practically missed all of D2, I would expect town!Xorxes to continue scum reading me… indeed if I was him I would certainly have me in the bottom 4: Bozo, DrCJG, Neph, thd.

SCUMLEAN

• Bozo -
  • Had Bozo has null, until the last couple hours... His latest arguments about how the last scum wouldn't bus his teammate as a reason to not shoot rdr makes sense... but comes across as incredibly scummy to me... especially when he emphasized that he was the first to list rdr as a top scum.
• Nephthys
  • D1 I found Neph to have been quite blendy... he didn't take any unpopular opinions... didnt push anyone.. and seemed to flitter between discussions and follow up with polite requests for elaboration
  • Voted Damo to encourage discussion… when in fact he pushed the wagon to 5-1 (granted almost 24hrs before EOD), but doesn’t mention Damo again until 3 mins before EOD to question why Damo wouldn’t defend himself and that he would be willing to move off Damo… reads as trying to prepare for Damo flipping town.
  • D2 Neph makes numerous posts and emphasizes that he no longer townclears me and instead just townleans me... 1) I don't know how he could have had me towncleared unless he is scum; and 2) I am not sure whey he felt the need to emphasize this while not scumreading me or having any arguments against me.
  • He also comes out with extensive analysis of Jamie starting about here:
    Ultimately concluding that Jamie was scumlean prior to Worcej's claim... but simultaneously decides Worcej should be lynched over Jamie:

    Assuming there had been no claim and it was down to Jamie vs Worcej as wagons I would prefer to lynch Worcej based on the play we have seen so far.
    
    Worcej has not added much if any new information (pre-claim) or any real attempt to move the game forwards.
    Jamie at least put forward some cases (regardless of integrity)
    
    I think we lose more if we mis-lynch a town Jamie than a town Worcej.
    I think it is easier to tell the false direction from a scum as the game gets smaller.
    
    Overall this would make me think that it would be easier to catch a scum Jamie than a scum Worcej late game.

    This reads as pretty forced to me... what does he mean by "regardless of integrity" and why do we "lose more if we mis-lynch a town Jamie than a town Worcej." As I was quickly reading yesterday, his post felt genuine like he was really unsure if Worcej's claim was true... but in hindsight it looks like an attempt to see if he could save his scummate for a turn.
    
    Furthermore, this post seems very out of character of D1 Neph.
• thdfrance/Rdr
  • Practically no opinions/positions/arguments.... which is scummy by itself, but also limits our ability to read him.
  • He joined the vote on Worcej at the request of Damo then 2 posts and 24 hours later votes Damo stating he doesn't have any strong feelings but likes the arguments made on Damo and will park his vote there.
  • It’s a scummy way to vote and he followed it by claiming he is going to post full read lists, but doesn’t show up until 7 mins after EOD to say that he isn’t scum and that he doesn’t have a ton to contribute…
  • Still thinking about rdr's opinions, though I am starting to believe more that Bozo/rdr could be the scum team

SCUM

Here DrCJG starts distancing himself from Nephthys by including him in his scumleans. I find the following line in particular something a scum would say instead of a town with a legitimate scum read: "Furthermore, this post seems very out of character of D1 Neph." Despite listing Nephthys as one of his three scum reads, he concludes with "I am starting to believe more that Bozo/rdr could be the scum team".

[bozotheclown]

Some other comments:

Knowing brainbomb and xorxes are not both scum, I think I was reading too much into the Jamie/brainbomb/xorxes connections.

It is likely xorxes was right about DrCJG D1 and I was wrong.

brainbomb is hard to read, but his frequent changes in direction are not inconsistent with what he has done repeatedly as town, and his reaction to the Nephthys shot is what I would expect from him as town.

I like rdrivera's reads, and not just because he town read me. He was proven correct about Nephthys, I know he is correct about me, and I suspect he is correct about xorxes.

I think Nephthys push on thdfrance makes rdrivera very likely town, and DrCJG is voting for rdrivera without addressing that Nephthys would have had to be bussing thdfrance.

[brainbomb]

actually, thats pretty solid analysis.

##Vote DRCGJC

[brainbomb]

his day 2 is inexscusably and shamelessly just oozing scum. and saying he forgot about the game is a possible misrepresentation of reality.

​SCUMLEAN
Bozo -
Had Bozo has null, until the last couple hours... His latest arguments about how the last scum wouldn't bus his teammate as a reason to not shoot rdr makes sense... but comes across as incredibly scummy to me... especially when he emphasized that he was the first to list rdr as a top scum

that does look petty and very thin as a justification for a scumread

[brainbomb]

ok, we can try this bozo

[brainbomb]

I see no reason to doubt worcej's claim, unless we get a counterclaim. I still consider the thdfrance slot a top scum candidate, and I am still concerned Jamie could have been bussing xorxes.

##Vote bozo

[brainbomb]

screw it, hes tried to push everyone on their weaknesses rather than on things beyond superficial. bozo is too obvious early game where Jamie freaks out pages 6-8 and the reason seems like it has to be that bozo is voting no lynch. and Jamie is forced to fake townread him for it.