Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[DemonRHK]

Well, I can't think a reason for a town to shot Ezio this way. Yav did it last game but it was a completely different context.
What I think happened is that a scum under heavy pressure had a gun and decide to take a risk shooting Ezio hoping to hit a PR and to out the GS. So, I would think MLQ or Demon are the biggest suspects.

Yes, because even though I'm not in Maniac's shoot list, and likely not up for lynch today, I would have shot now instead of in the last half hour.

Even though there's no way in hell the smith would ever have gunned me.

But by all means, please, keep making these leaps of logic.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Tom retracted him claim tham, demon is still saying he is watcher with no counter. Do you actually think Tom would claim as a real cop for just the EoN so he could get shot and then go back on it?

The explanation for tom was that scum needs to get cop out in the next day or so, because every night he gives town another clear or another likely scum target (plus or minus the couple mishaps with the godfather and the one miller in the game). Soon they'll add up to the point where winning as scum is going to be impossible. Scum knows that the only real shot they have at winning is to kill the cop in the next couple days or prevent him from scanning. I think it makes sense for scum tom to do what he did to try and bait out the cop, even if he did do it, he could just try and weasel out of it, which I think a lot of you would have let him. Also, it makes very little town sense to fake claim cop like he did, we had PR's who could protect our townclear, he wasn't protecting any real PR's. What he could have done was bait a cop counter claim or got our PR's to protect him instead of people who needed protecting (like brain or maniac).

[thamrick]

Tom retracted him claim tham, demon is still saying he is watcher with no counter. Do you actually think Tom would claim as a real cop for just the EoN so he could get shot and then go back on it?

The explanation for tom was that scum needs to get cop out in the next day or so, because every night he gives town another clear or another likely scum target (plus or minus the couple mishaps with the godfather and the one miller in the game). Soon they'll add up to the point where winning as scum is going to be impossible. Scum knows that the only real shot they have at winning is to kill the cop in the next couple days or prevent him from scanning. I think it makes sense for scum tom to do what he did to try and bait out the cop, even if he did do it, he could just try and weasel out of it, which I think a lot of you would have let him. Also, it makes very little town sense to fake claim cop like he did, we had PR's who could protect our townclear, he wasn't protecting any real PR's. What he could have done was bait a cop counter claim or got our PR's to protect him instead of people who needed protecting (like brain or maniac).

Why did Brain need protecting? Obviously he died, but he was VT.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Rdr, do you really think I would have been given a gun after last night? I would have been contractually obligated to shoot brainbomb if I got gunned day 1, and would have done it, for sure if I was scum and knew he was town, I would have had every reason to do it. I'm tired of getting blamed for everything bad even when it makes no sense for me to do it.

Thamrick, Brain was widely townread, he was the next most obvious target after maniac. He was participating a lot, doing a lot of analysis and had very few if any scum reads on him. There was also the weird maybe gunsmith arua still around him, even though he pretty much admitted to not being it if I recall.

[rdrivera2005]

Well, I can't think a reason for a town to shot Ezio this way. Yav did it last game but it was a completely different context.
What I think happened is that a scum under heavy pressure had a gun and decide to take a risk shooting Ezio hoping to hit a PR and to out the GS. So, I would think MLQ or Demon are the biggest suspects.

Yes, because even though I'm not in Maniac's shoot list, and likely not up for lynch today, I would have shot now instead of in the last half hour.

Even though there's no way in hell the smith would ever have gunned me.

But by all means, please, keep making these leaps of logic.

I put you because if you fake claimed you will be lynched (or shoot) soon and this gun was probably handed on D1 were you weren't under so much pressure. But it could be also a scum in Maniac list.

[rdrivera2005]

Rdr, do you really think I would have been given a gun after last night? I would have been contractually obligated to shoot brainbomb if I got gunned day 1, and would have done it, for sure if I was scum and knew he was town, I would have had every reason to do it. I'm tired of getting blamed for everything bad even when it makes no sense for me to do it.

Thamrick, Brain was widely townread, he was the next most obvious target after maniac. He was participating a lot, doing a lot of analysis and had very few if any scum reads on him. There was also the weird maybe gunsmith arua still around him, even though he pretty much admitted to not being it if I recall.

You have a point about being gunned D1, so it's really unlikely you shoot Ezio.

[DemonRHK]

I put you because if you fake claimed you will be lynched (or shoot) soon and this gun was probably handed on D1 were you weren't under so much pressure. But it could be also a scum in Maniac list.

The gun was handed out N1. I was losing credibility by then, and anyone with any goddamn sense wouldn't gun me. besides, I get way too itchy with guns and claim then right out normally.

[thamrick]

@Mean - I understand the logic behind Tom being scum for the cop claim. What I find suspicious is your unwillingness to consider that it is real and desire to lynch him anyway. Regardless, you're playing a lot of defense. I want to hear your offense. Who do you have questions for?

[rdrivera2005]

@Mean - I understand the logic behind Tom being scum for the cop claim. What I find suspicious is your unwillingness to consider that it is real and desire to lynch him anyway. Regardless, you're playing a lot of defense. I want to hear your offense. Who do you have questions for?

@Tham - Have you missed that Tom retracted his claim?

[thamrick]

I wa

(assuming BB was killed due to his CC)

Why would you assume that?

I wasn't. You read the post hopefully. I was saying the conclusion I drew (that either Bozo is innocent or that Tom would've been the NK) was based on the assumption that BB was killed due to his cop CC.

It's possible that they were completely unrelated. What do you think? Why was BB was killed?

[thamrick]

@Mean - I understand the logic behind Tom being scum for the cop claim. What I find suspicious is your unwillingness to consider that it is real and desire to lynch him anyway. Regardless, you're playing a lot of defense. I want to hear your offense. Who do you have questions for?

@Tham - Have you missed that Tom retracted his claim?

Yeah I saw that. How do you think it changes what Tom did? Pro-town? Anti-town?

[MeanLaQueefa]

I'd like to hear why tom thinks he was more likely to bait the nk kill with his claim than to bait the cop to counter him or have our PR's target him to save him. Also, even if he was successful and he was killed, statistically, scum were most likely to nk a vt anyway (and did), why was sacrificing himself even worth it if there were no potential downsides? Of course, the chance of baiting the cop to counter him and baiting real PR protection away from more important targets are both examples of potential downsides to claiming cop.

I'd like to hear bozo's actual reasons for voting tom when he did. He saw at least maniac's post about reducing the lynch pool to rjm, vash and yav, and he'd been pushing vash all day. Why did he switch then? Also why tom and not rjm? He never mentioned rjm once before his lynch and the only case he gave against tom was that he was "suspicious" along with me and reedeer.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Tham, why do you think tom could still be cop after his retraction? Are you playing devil's advocate? Because I think if Tom was really the cop, claiming like he did was completely reckless and extremely stupid. Unless you think that's what he wanted scum to think, but that's another hell of a risk.

[rdrivera2005]

@Mean - I understand the logic behind Tom being scum for the cop claim. What I find suspicious is your unwillingness to consider that it is real and desire to lynch him anyway. Regardless, you're playing a lot of defense. I want to hear your offense. Who do you have questions for?

@Tham - Have you missed that Tom retracted his claim?

Yeah I saw that. How do you think it changes what Tom did? Pro-town? Anti-town?

I think the claim is more pro town then anti town. Unlikely what MLQ thinks I can't see why the real Cop would counterclaim AT NIGHT and he retracted right after EON. I have seen town do this before (brain I think). Of course he could be scum trying to gain town credibility, so I don't read too much on it.

[Balki Bartokomous]

Tham, why do you think tom could still be cop after his retraction? Are you playing devil's advocate? Because I think if Tom was really the cop, claiming like he did was completely reckless and extremely stupid. Unless you think that's what he wanted scum to think, but that's another hell of a risk.

So....mafia really wants to know who the Cop is right now. So, if you're town, just shhhhhhhhhhh... Real Cop will sort this out eventually one way or another.

If you're indeed scum, then please continue to try to drill down on all these cop claims and figure out which one is for real.

[thamrick]

Tham, why do you think tom could still be cop after his retraction? Are you playing devil's advocate? Because I think if Tom was really the cop, claiming like he did was completely reckless and extremely stupid. Unless you think that's what he wanted scum to think, but that's another hell of a risk.

Tom is town
a) he's actually cop. Things go the way he says. Watcher sits on him and scum can't resist sac'ing someone for him. We're down to 2 scum and get some good info on the flipped scum. We reveal Watcher in the process. Pretty good scenario for town, I'd say. Yeah it would suck losing cop but how many scum is cop likely to turn up anyway?

b) he's not cop. Safe to assume he's VT as it doesn't really make a lot of sense for him to be another PR role. He takes a bullet. Real cop would have no strong motivation to immediately CC. It's nighttime. They'd know it makes them safe for a NK. Worst case scenario, they get NK'd and then Tom is super suspicious the next day, so smart true cop sits it out. They can choose to CC during day if they want. Up to them to reveal at a smart time.


Tom is scum
Okay. He's looking to draw a cop claim. Again, what motivation did real cop have to CC him immediately? Sure, could have drawn a gut reaction. Could have drawn nurse or watcher off the scum's true target. It even could get one of those PR's onto Tom the next night too if he wasn't lynched the next day.


Honestly, I just don't see it as being worth it if Tom is scum. Even if he draws the Cop out, which yeah. Is big for scum. It leaves 2 scum. 16 players after N2 - assume we lynch Tom and they NK cop (who would assuredly be watched or nursed or both). RB nurse to get the cop. They sac another scum to actually kill the cop. 14 players, 13 town, 1 scum, watcher still there, nurse still there, gs still there, towncleared Maniac still there. That sound like a good scenario for scum to be in?

Maybe they don't immediately NK cop and try to get nurse or watcher first so they don't have to sac their other. They've still got to root out those PRs and survive the witch trials.

Tell me why I'm wrong to believe that Tom is town.

[MeanLaQueefa]

Thamrick, because it is just as you said, if they don't sort out who the PR's are soon, they lose much sooner. They're in a bad position already, losing a scum to know who cop is isn't a horrible trade, and even if cop had counter claimed, tom would have just retracted it just like he did and we'd be right where we are now except our cop would have been outed. A lot of you don't want to lynch tom now, would that change if he'd baited the cop? Tom is no more likely to be cop than literally any other player, less so in my mind because of the risk he took. The risk would have been worth it for town, some of you even want to town read him for this, so maybe that was his end goal as well. Maybe he'll get the cop to claim, or alternatively he'll just get town read by people for doing something that really only benefits scum.

[thamrick]

Thamrick, because it is just as you said, if they don't sort out who the PR's are soon, they lose much sooner. They're in a bad position already, losing a scum to know who cop is isn't a horrible trade, and even if cop had counter claimed, tom would have just retracted it just like he did and we'd be right where we are now except our cop would have been outed. A lot of you don't want to lynch tom now, would that change if he'd baited the cop? Tom is no more likely to be cop than literally any other player, less so in my mind because of the risk he took. The risk would have been worth it for town, some of you even want to town read him for this, so maybe that was his end goal as well. Maybe he'll get the cop to claim, or alternatively he'll just get town read by people for doing something that really only benefits scum.

You completely ignore my argument that the real cop was VERY unlikely to CC at night.

Yeah Tom could have retracted like he did and argued he was trying to draw the NK. He still gets policy lynched eventually. You draw a PR out with a fake claim, you don't survive long.

[DemonRHK]

Uh, as much as I hate to try to stop people from participating...

Da fuck y'all PR huntin' for??

[thamrick]

@RHK - what happened to my song request?

##CALL GMs - are we going to follow normal game schedule or is there going to be an extention? EoN is set to fall right before the start of the Super Bowl.