War, what is it good for?

[CaptainFritz28]

I'm cautiously optimistic about the situation as it stands. Unless some outside influence is thrown into the mix

Careful, Oct. From the scuttlebutt I've heard, I don't think you're allowed to use that "optimistic" word anymore.

[Octavious]

Of course, with all the excitement over Iran virtually no one has been discussing the other big story of the weekend

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyx5yw8y28o

[CaptainFritz28]

Dang. Not what I had on my Summer '25 bingo card.

[Jamiet99uk]

"We are not making the world safer. We are making it infinitely more dangerous. And for Britain to so uncritically align itself with the actions of Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu - two hard-right authoritarians with little respect for democracy or the international norms that sustain it - is not just morally indefensible. It’s a dangerous travesty that risks dragging us into wars we did not start, and whose consequences we will all have to bear."

- Clive Lewis MP

[Octavious]

Clive Lewis? That's not a name I've heard for a while. What's he up to these days?

[Jamiet99uk]

Clive Lewis? That's not a name I've heard for a while. What's he up to these days?

He's a backbench MP... probably questioning why he is still a member of the Labour party.

[Jamiet99uk]

Question:

America dropped bunker-buster bombs against Iran's Fordow site, and other enrichment facilities, because they claimed Iran was enriching uranium there. However there are no reports of a dangerous release of radiation into the environment.

The absence of any radiation signature suggests that either (a) Iran may have removed the materials in time, or (b) the strikes failed to penetrate the facility.

On the basis of claims that there was enriched uranium present at the site, wasn't America taking a huge risk, in terms of environmental destruction and release of radiation? Or did they know they were bombing an empty site?

Thoughts?

[yavuzovic]

Question:

America dropped bunker-buster bombs against Iran's Fordow site, and other enrichment facilities, because they claimed Iran was enriching uranium there. However there are no reports of a dangerous release of radiation into the environment.

The absence of any radiation signature suggests that either (a) Iran may have removed the materials in time, or (b) the strikes failed to penetrate the facility.

On the basis of claims that there was enriched uranium present at the site, wasn't America taking a huge risk, in terms of environmental destruction and release of radiation? Or did they know they were bombing an empty site?

Thoughts?

Is there a source for this issue that analyses it with expertise? And with all the situation described, the facility could have collapsed underground but still protected by meters of dirt. The situation won't be like a Chernobyl explosion, but rather an underground contamination at most.

[Octavious]

It's worth keeping in mind that Uranium is a naturally occurring element and can be found in small levels pretty much everywhere. There is likely enough naturally occurring Uranium in the mountain to build a bomb, and it's never done anyone any harm.

Uranium itself breaks down via alpha decay (fine unless you eat it), but the stuff it decays into emits beta and gamma. The poor sods who have to work with it will keep it very securely in specially designed flasks similar to those that regularly cart nuclear waste from Hinkley Point to a secure location via Bristol City Centre. These flasks can take a hell of a beating, but the preferred location for storage remains deep underground beneath a load of rock and concrete. If there is nuclear material there, it's pretty much in the safest place you could want it to be

[CaptainFritz28]

Looks like a ceasefire has been announced. Hopefully the war ends smoothly.

[Jamiet99uk]

Hopefully only a few tens of thousands of Iranians are murdered for no particular reason!!!

Go fuck yourselves, you bloodthirsty maniacs, all of you.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Hopefully only a few tens of thousands of Iranians are murdered for no particular reason!!!

Go fuck yourselves, you bloodthirsty maniacs, all of you.

Tens of thousands?

I'll be much more interested in your condemnations if they're accompanied by any alternative vision of what should have been done that genuinely takes into account the nuclear program....

[Jamiet99uk]

Hopefully only a few tens of thousands of Iranians are murdered for no particular reason!!!

Go fuck yourselves, you bloodthirsty maniacs, all of you.

Tens of thousands?

I'll be much more interested in your condemnations if they're accompanied by any alternative vision of what should have been done that genuinely takes into account the nuclear program....

Respect the concept of international law.

Seek peace over violence wherever possible.

Simple enough.

[Jamiet99uk]

If you think that Israel's actions are justified, go fuck yourself, you're as bad as them.

If you think the USA had any reasonable basis to bomb Iran, you do not care about peace, you reject the concept of international law, you sicken me.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

If this peace holds and Iran is set back 10+ years in its nuclear ambitions it will be hard to view the events of the past week as a total disaster. If this conflict also reduces Iran's ability to project power in the region, so much the better.

The US exclusively bombed military nuclear installations. Preventing Iran from getting the bomb is a justifiable goal given that diplomacy and economic coercion had already failed.

If adhering to international law means just tut tutting as Iran makes nukes then it's untenable and indeed immoral itself.

[CaptainFritz28]

I don't think Jamie realizes that Iran has little to no concept of international law themselves, nor are they a peaceful nation.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

It's unfortunate there is no agreed international means to enforce nuclear non proliferation.

It's bad that Trump (and several US presidents before him) can just ignore the constitution and order military action without the approval of Congress.

It's insane that this particular conflict started based on the decision of one criminal leader of Israel who should be in jail. Bibi's personal political calculus almost certainly swayed the timing of these strikes.

The process here was dangerous and insane. I'm not crying any tears over Iran's dashed nuclear ambitions, but nothing about the way this went down feels reassuring.

[CaptainFritz28]

It's bad that Trump (and several US presidents before him) can just ignore the constitution and order military action without the approval of Congress.

This is one of the things I dislike the most about the situation, and dislike about American foreign policy really since WW2. It's annoying to me that the government hasn't resolved the inconsistency with our actions and our law. At the very least, they should change the Constitution so that it matches reality. Otherwise it's just dishonest. What would be better would be for Congress to get a spine and authorize strikes like this when necessary, and then not allow special military operations outside of Congressional approval.

[Esquire Bertissimmo]

Seems like there was in fact no ceasefire. Trump has a bad habit of announcing things before they're fully cooked lol.

[Octavious]

I don't know that it's a bad habit. It is all part of his strategy of twisting reality to how he wants it by sheer force of will and shouting. Mrs Oct's Nan uses a very similar strategy, particularly at Christmas, to terrifying effect.