Mafia round 93: hot potato! (game thread)

[bo_sox48]

DiplomacyandWarfare was admitting to deliberately and continuously fake claiming his potato status.

Yes, and?

It seemed scum motivated. Have been been paying attention to DiplomacyandWarfare's claims? After tracking down discrepancies an proving DiplomacyandWarfare was the source, he retracted, then made another claim which was proven false, then continued to make additional fake claims. Not until recently has he provide information that could be true.

Yes, and I don’t think spreading misinformation with a goal (even if it’s stupid, out of sequence, and generally not useful) is inherently scummy. The rest of his game has been generally town-ish to me.

[bo_sox48]

##unvote

@Dream doing this three minutes after voting for someone and pushing for others to vote them as well is not what scum does

[bo_sox48]

Giving some “will realized he’s cooked so he told his teammate Mimi how to fake a town slip” vibes

This is a fine reason to vote for Will instead of remaining on Bunny without an actual case or any actual evidence as to why you are voting at all, and yet you just don’t do it.

Chaqa has literally not explained his case on me at all

I think his idea is pretty clear there. He thinks you’re coaching. I don’t agree, and I didn’t say it was a good case, but by Chaqa standards it’s a fine reason.

[bozotheclown]

Yes, and?

It seemed scum motivated. Have been been paying attention to DiplomacyandWarfare's claims? After tracking down discrepancies an proving DiplomacyandWarfare was the source, he retracted, then made another claim which was proven false, then continued to make additional fake claims. Not until recently has he provide information that could be true.

Yes, and I don’t think spreading misinformation with a goal (even if it’s stupid, out of sequence, and generally not useful) is inherently scummy. The rest of his game has been generally town-ish to me.

I thought his goal was to avoid the DK, but his recent claim about having the RP and trying to get it back seems to be consistent with the HP claims, although I don't think it was necessary for him to repeatedly give false information.

[bo_sox48]

His goal seems to change on the regular which to me makes it even less likely he’s scum.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Long post 2/2:

Will's response to D&W, the third voter against him, was a bit more aggressive.



I don't really get why this "case" - again, terrible, far worse than the previous - even warrants a response. What is the gain? What is the point? But it's reasonable enough, I suppose, and asks a pertinent question that I would ask as well if I felt the need to respond.

On to his response to Kaka:



Hold up. THIS is the most sus? Why? They all suck. They're all absolutely atrocious votes without substance. How is this 0/10 level skill vote worse than the other two 0/10 level skill votes?

Let's go back to Will's reads and try to figure this out. This is 7 hours prior to all this.



This explains the lack of gusto toward D&W pretty well. Will townread them, so instantly scumreading them is tough. Dream and Kaka, on the other hand, are "meh" reads - not in the list of folks that Will would vote for, but close enough.

Billy Mays: but wait, there's more!



Will votes for Kaka here. It's interesting that Dream and Kaka are identically placed in his reads but his response is cordial with Dream and aggressively OMGUSing Kaka. Again, what was so much worse about what Kaka did than the other two?

Unless Kaka's the one who bussed you. Yeah, that tracks. You're pissed the fuck off.

Speaking of Kaka, their vote against brain, their second to last vote of the day, came with this:



Compelling? Eh, it's reasonable. Compare and contrast this vote with Kaka's vote on Will, reposted for clarity:



Kaka didn't want Will dead. Kaka wanted to opportunistically drop a line on the Will wagon with the chance to look good if Will's erratic behavior got him flipped.

One more little tidbit:

Will's vote never moved away from Kaka all day, even though Kaka moved theirs. But Will did vote again! For Kaka. Lol



This is two minutes before the deadline. He's fighting a wagon against Red, who was higher in his scumreads than Kaka and in his "would" vote for pool, while Red had 8 votes on him. It could seem innocent, especially if you don't agree with my thinking and simply believe I'm an idiot at this point, but this is actually what got me started when I read back through EOD2. Why do this? The only way I can make sense of it is as a halfhearted bus against Kaka, maybe even a sarcastic one. It just strikes me as completely out of place otherwise.

tl;dr I just used a lot of words and quotes to pluck the Will-Kaka scumteam out of thin air and I'll happily vote for either of them

@Bo a few things

A: THis case is mainly using Kak’s alignment to solve my own. Therefore you should vote Kak first

B: I came to the conclusion Red was town close to EOD when I realized nobody cared about saving him. It was town indicative. Once I realized this, I tried to get another wagon going: Kak.

C: Kak’s vote on me was the most suspicious because he had shown the least interest in voting me (and even agreed with a lot of my points), then suddenly as soon as I got two votes, Kak hopped on. It was opportunistic + dumb rather than just dumb

a) it’s definitely not, there is plenty of standalone evidence against you. You just decided to chop it out of your quote.

b) you never townread Red at all. You are straight up lying. This post is with 8 minutes to go in the phase.

Get off damo

Get onto red or kak

This is with 12 minutes to go in the phase.

Im happy with kak/brain/chaqa/red wagons

I’d rather not vote damo

Here’s you once again trying to save damo via Red or Kaka with 5 minutes left in the phase.

Why is Will trying hard to save someone? Regardless of their alignment why?

Because hes town

If you’re going to straight up lie to me, you might as well string yourself up because I’m not going to miss it.

c) again, you’re lying straight up. You were Kaka’s second highest listed scumread at the beginning of day 2.

Will - feels like he can change his opinion here on a dime. He early declared a (probably soft) town read for Bunny and me, and after a bit that completely vanished. Other examples of that is all over his game. Sure, it's good to not tunnel and have an open mind, but Will seems to be another extreme from his last game, where his reads looked pretty frozen. I think he very well could've changed his approach from last game so to not fall into the same track.

Ill respond to this in a sec

[bozotheclown]

I received one potato and I now have one potato in total.

Tonight I have the same number of potatoes as I had during the previous phase.

I think this explains the extra D2 HP that I recorded. I thought Jamie was talking about HPs, but I believe he was indicating he had an HP N2 and the RP D2.

[damo666]

##vote Bunny

[yavuzovic]

You aren’t this dumb, are you? There’s over 6 hours left in the day and you’re leading by one vote. You’re not any more likely to get daykilled than anyone else. Get over yourself.

The point is I might be MKd and tis my last opportunity to reveal my potato destinations.

The point is you’re being a drama queen and you’re not particularly likely to be daykilled today. How often does the leading wagon from the very beginning of the day just sit atop the board? You’re very clearly town, simply because a wagon on scum when we are barely ahead of them doesn’t last very long, and I expect everyone to figure that out.

Yeah right scum like you distract the town and suggest other town wagons so we miskill instead.
I'm getting angry that people are leaving damo wagon. Town must stay together to form solid wagons because that's the only way we can outguess the organized and self-aware scum group.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Bo real quick can you link that Kak post? The whole thing?

[bozotheclown]

D1:
BunnyGo: HP, Chaqa
Chaqa: HP, Jamie
DiplomacyandWarfare: RP
DreamTrawler: HP, Control V
ghug: HP, ?
Jamie: HP, Chaqa
Kakarroto: CP, brainbomb
miminena: SP, bozo
Red Neurax: HP, damo

N1:
bo_sox: 1 HP, Just
bozo: SP, BunnyGo
brainbomb: CP
Chaqa: 2 HPs, bo_sox, ghug
Control V: 1 HP, miminena
damo: 1 HP, random player
DiplomacyandWarfare: RP
Jamie: 2 HPs, brainbomb, DiplomacyandWarfare

D2:
bo_sox: 1 HP, rdrivera
brainbomb: CP, 1 HP
BunnyGo: SP, miminena
DiplomacyandWarfare: 2 HPs
Just: 2 HPs, brainbomb
miminena: 1 HP, Chaqa

N2:
brainbomb: 2 HPs
Chaqa: 2 HPs, Just, rdrivera
DiplomacyandWarfare: RP
Jamie: 1 HP
Just: CP
miminena: SP; 1 HP, BunnyGo
rdrivera: 1 HP, damo

D3:
bo_sox: 1 HP
BunnyGo: 1 HP
damo: 2 HPs
DiplomacyandWarfare: 1 HP
rdrivera: 1 HP

We finally have consistent information, except for the missing D1 HP. The source of bo_sox's N1 HP and Jamie's second N1 HP are unidentified. One came from ghug, the other came from someone who did not report their D1 HP, or I missed them reporting it.

Did anyone pass an HP to bo_sox or Jamie D1 that I didn't record?

[DreamTrawler]

##vote Bunny

Why on earth

[damo666]

##vote Bunny

Why on earth

Cos I now think scum is in {Bunny, Chaqa, Dip?, you, yav, rdr}

[DreamTrawler]

##vote Bunny

Why on earth

Cos I now think scum is in {Bunny, Chaqa, Dip?, you, yav, rdr}

You don't find Bunny's SP throw to be towny?

[yavuzovic]

Get off damo

Get onto red or kak

This is with 12 minutes to go in the phase.

Im happy with kak/brain/chaqa/red wagons

I’d rather not vote damo

Here’s you once again trying to save damo via Red or Kaka with 5 minutes left in the phase.

@bo_
If you believe Just to be saving damo and them being a scum pair, why do you trying to discourage damo wagon? We can flip one first, which will greatly increase the suspicious for the other, and we can start with damo. I don't actually scumread you despite my last post, but as town we should stand together even if damo/just wagons are m/m because then scums can bring a third wagon and present a town alternative which can be mistakenly killed with the help of scum.

[damo666]

Why on earth

Cos I now think scum is in {Bunny, Chaqa, Dip?, you, yav, rdr}

You don't find Bunny's SP throw to be towny?

As scum it would be a safe place to send. Not bringing anyone else in. As scum you don't want to create 2 townclears do you?

[Kakarroto]

town brain would've kept that information hidden and pushed his maf reads, and if town brain would read me as mafia, would've also looked out who potentially knew and might be my partner.

I think Jamie should weigh in on this actually

Because me keeping mech and information to myself is like “never” a thing. This has never been true for almost a decade and Jamie has famously said brain will cream his pants blurting out any form of information he has about the game without any consideration.

Please do point to a game that supports your argument. Id love to hear that one

@Kak

unfortunately this is true

town brain would've kept that information hidden and pushed his maf reads, and if town brain would read me as mafia, would've also looked out who potentially knew and might be my partner.

I think Jamie should weigh in on this actually

Because me keeping mech and information to myself is like “never” a thing. This has never been true for almost a decade and Jamie has famously said brain will cream his pants blurting out any form of information he has about the game without any consideration.

Please do point to a game that supports your argument. Id love to hear that one

I have already noted that I'm not a big fan of Kak berating you for deciding to declare the Couch Potato.

In response to your further comment here, I concur. You (Brainbomb) find it difficult to keep a lid on information. Certainly I think that Kak's conclusion - that you are likely scum for talking about the Couch Potato - appears flawed.

ugh, if both damo and jamie are saying this, I'll be probably wrong about that. It's still bewildering to me that brain would out it that early, and I know he fakeclaims stuff, but I've always thought about him being smart and clever about it. Like, wouldn't he claim some other stuff, like having the rotten or three hot ones or something? And then gauges who reacts in which way?

I still don't like how he fully went down on me too, like he maf-reads me for my flavour post? Like, what? When he knows for a fact that I write those before I get my role PM? Maybe the claiming stuff doesn't point to him being mafia, but that weird twisting of what and how do stuff, definitely is

[Kakarroto]

What is why? I'm against keeping potatoes secret. I support revealing and tracking them. Mafia can't hold them forever and they must eventually get rid of them. Both couch and hot potatos. In my post I only want brain to vote somewhere else and implicitly defend revealing couch potato for future holders.

hypothetical

you've gotten the couch potato
you immediatly claim at the time you got the PM
everyone knows you can't do jack shit for the next day phase

what have we learned? What is the incentive to do anything for those phases? People will just ignore you, or at least feel no danger from you. You can't really impact decisions.

I'm not against revealing, and not against avoiding any ties. Feel free to vote 'no kill' after you've claimed.

But with the threat alone of your vote, and the information if people knew who shouldn't, you can get information about others. I don't say "do not claim". I'm saying "claim towards the end of the day". 15, 10 minutes before EoD would be great. Earlier if you can't be there for EoD. But it gives such a card blanc to just do nothing when you claim early

Well he has claimed it, so I don't see much utility in berating him for his choice like this, Kak.

I guess. Got a bit emotional, it just hit something in my core with how brain frames things there and how he sabotaged his own position. Sorry, I didn't want to get rude or unfriendly. I should've calmed down enough, had some busy long workday yesterday and couldn't bring myself to have a look of more of this, but luckily I got off early today and feel much better so I'll try to be more civil about it

[Kakarroto]

Why is everyone voting Just?

I had my doubts, but right now, given the alternative wagons, this is the only decent one

Make an alternative target.

probably outdated, but Red, Control V, brain are good targets, maybe Will or Chaqa to see if they gain traction. Maybe even you to see who's willing to vote you.

Definitely not dip, Dream, Jamie or Bunny, don't really want mimi, damo or bozo, although I still have to see what drove you onto damo? Also maybe not RD, nearly forgot him

maybe I have to rethink the 'don't really want' group, I don't get a good read early and those are still mostly of that time, so maybe I'm wrong about one or two there.

[Kakarroto]

Damo has like three posts today that are more than one sentence long

That's better than red neurax

I’m down for Red but I don’t think he’s going to slip through the cracks. I’ve given him a shot and gotten nothing out of it and I don’t like to spend my time on people who don’t reveal something for us to digest when pressured, but I agree that at some point it’s going to be necessary for us to go get him.

I do think though that pressure shouldn't be required to give us info. It's a useful tool if someone doesn't talk much, yes, but it shouldn't be the standard for getting information.