Mafia XL - A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

[ND]

Yeah. Obviously, I am in a unique position because I know my alignment. I know that D7 was town v town. I know the scum were complacent because they didn't care who died. The evidence is there, but I really don't know how to articulate it any better than I already have.

[bozotheclown]

And since everyone and their mother are gone, and the last bit are the afk'ers, I am going to start it all off like this:

I stand by my bo = town. Reasoning is simple, we have no good town leader to try to need you to go deep on scum playing. I also think ghug's expression of surprise that he issued was an attempt to possibly instill some deep-thinking bullshit to make me go for you.

That aside, let's start narrowing this down.

##vote bozo

Of the group of 3 players, the one I actually think stands out as the least scummie is rdr. Does this completely 180 my ending on the monologue? Yeah, kinda... But the case for bozo is good to me: I think the combo of votes and reads (most notably who he listed as his scum team without actually trying to go for them other than damo) make me feel like the play is somewhat fabricated, especially with minimal effort. ND strikes me as the 2nd scum, mostly for again consistently being off on every vote except for flash, when he was the 2nd wagon.

OK, I have read all of your posts now. I kept trying to lynch damo because he was my strongest scum read, and I thought he kept escaping, I assumed with scum assistance. ND was strongly scum reading damo also, which is one of the reasons I thought ND was town at the time. When DemonRHK was revealed as scum, I thought damo and DemonRHK made sense as scum partners the way the thdfrance wagon developed and saved both of them, and to a lesser extent how the peterlund wagon passed both of them as well. However, ND started backing off on his scum read of damo when DemonRHK was revealed. I believe he was preparing for damo's eventual flip, knowing he would flip town. Also, it is now apparent rdrivera was bussing DemonRHK D1 and D2, before backing off D3, when he started following ghug onto flash.

[bo_sox48]

Hashtag redeemed baby

[rdrivera2005]

Ok, I just keep sucking at this. Sorry Durga, I always end scumreading you and you scumread me, I think I need to change my approach. I just don't understand why scum killed Durga over Bo and Worcej, but this makes things a lot easier.

Bo is town, he won't pass the chance to win giving the box to Ghug. Worcej is town, I know I am town, so it need to be Bozo and ND. I just don't know how I will convince you.
##vote Bozo

[bo_sox48]

Worcej, for obvious reasons, you and I need to vote together. I’ll reread when I can. We’ve gotten lucky twice, so let’s solve the game and make it worthwhile.

[bozotheclown]

Not surprisingly I am the scum target for today, they are going all in to get me lynched for the game.

[worcej]

Worcej, for obvious reasons, you and I need to vote together. I’ll reread when I can. We’ve gotten lucky twice, so let’s solve the game and make it worthwhile.

Pretty much where I am at. If you are scum, well done for going deep for no reason when you could've just outright won already.

[bo_sox48]

Thank -- I mean, uh, yeah, I would never just, like, troll the town just for shits and giggles... that's so not something I of all people would ever do...

[worcej]

Thank -- I mean, uh, yeah, I would never just, like, troll the town just for shits and giggles... that's so not something I of all people would ever do...

Trololololol indeed lol...

[bo_sox48]

Well whichever one of you is town isn’t showing that you really care much

[bozotheclown]

Just because someone put's in 'effort' doesn't mean they are town. It may be a town indicator, but you know scum can play that game. So, anytime someone run's around saying 'look at me I put in effort I'm not scum hehe' it kind of gives me a chill. Anyway, beside the point. I don't think it's RD.

I think it has to be Ghug and probably someone who was complacent: Bozo or RD and then we have either Worcej or Durga.

I think it has to be Ghug, Bozo, Worcej. Is that likely? Ugh. I don't know. Conflict.

And for all of you still tunneling me. Just pretend I don't exist for the sake of this argument. Just, I'm not here so who are your three scum reads apart from me (because I'm not scum) Do one with me in it and do one without me in it if you want, but please think about this game on one level factoring in that I'm not scum. If you don't then it's GG.

Here on N7, ND is trying to keep suspicion away from rdrivera. Then Durga, his top scum read from D7, tells him worcej is obviously town, followed by this:

I've already factored Ghug into being scum in my mind. I was asking what made Worcej more town then the rest of that group. If we rule him out then it leaves Bozo, Rd, and Ghug.

So pending Worcej being town it has to be Bozo, Rd, Ghug.

I think rdrivera or ghug told him he should start bussing rdrivera.

[bozotheclown]

Well whichever one of you is town isn’t showing that you really care much

I am sure ND and rdrivera will be content with me getting lynched.

[bozotheclown]

Worcej, we have two chances of being in mylo:
1)Ghug is town
2)Ghug is scum and don't explode tonight (box can have up to 6 items and 2 lists).

Even considering that 1 isn't likely now, option 2 have 50% chance. So, we need to play as if we are in mylo (in fact lylo, because no lynch isn't an option).
So, I am going back to Flash as I think lynching ND is a mistake.
##vote Flash

Can you give more of an explanation on why you think lynching ND is a mistake? What is making him town to you?

First, unless ND is doing an incredible job on changing meta he looks completely different from last game as scum and really like I remember him as town (even tunneling Damo fits this meta).

Second, he is pushing the people I also find scummy, as you and Durga, and I don't remember him as a busser.

Third, and this is the weakest, I find his answers and reactions compatible with a townie approach.

Here, rdrivera is trying to prevent a ND lynch D8. I think he knew that if ND got lynched and ghug exploded, he would not have much chance of winning. However, if they could get flash lynched, they would win if the box did not explode, and there was only a 2/5 chance of the box exploding N7, despite ghug insisting that there was a 2/3 chance of the box exploding.

[rdrivera2005]

Just because someone put's in 'effort' doesn't mean they are town. It may be a town indicator, but you know scum can play that game. So, anytime someone run's around saying 'look at me I put in effort I'm not scum hehe' it kind of gives me a chill. Anyway, beside the point. I don't think it's RD.

I think it has to be Ghug and probably someone who was complacent: Bozo or RD and then we have either Worcej or Durga.

I think it has to be Ghug, Bozo, Worcej. Is that likely? Ugh. I don't know. Conflict.

And for all of you still tunneling me. Just pretend I don't exist for the sake of this argument. Just, I'm not here so who are your three scum reads apart from me (because I'm not scum) Do one with me in it and do one without me in it if you want, but please think about this game on one level factoring in that I'm not scum. If you don't then it's GG.

Here on N7, ND is trying to keep suspicion away from rdrivera. Then Durga, his top scum read from D7, tells him worcej is obviously town, followed by this:

I've already factored Ghug into being scum in my mind. I was asking what made Worcej more town then the rest of that group. If we rule him out then it leaves Bozo, Rd, and Ghug.

So pending Worcej being town it has to be Bozo, Rd, Ghug.

I think rdrivera or ghug told him he should start bussing rdrivera.

I agree that Ghug probably told him he should start bussing and that's why he is voting you...

[bozotheclown]

And yeah, my read on Damo was stronger then my meta read on Jamie. If you re-read D1 or my posts from D1 you will see what I was thinking at the time.

I appreciate the line of questioning, but I don't think you are being fair and I don't think your most recent line was genuine. Saying I just agreed with Squigs on Damo D1. That's simply not true. I know that there have been almost two hundred pages of this, but it's not hard to re-read what I said.

You being un-genuine in this just goes back to my broader point about your play. It's not genuine.

I really don't think Durga is town. There is a chance I'm wrong on Ghug, but I am convinced. I think Flash is better though, but mark my words Durga is not town.

Here ND scum reads Durga D7 after he has already changed his vote from Durga to flash. Then on D8, he is town reading Durga:

What makes Worcej obvious town? If I can rule him out then I can narrow it down further. It's not you or Bo. It sure as heck isn't me.

That leaves Bozo, Rd, Worcej, and Ghug.

What makes Worcej town over the rest of this group?

If ND was town, why would Durga changing her vote from one town to another to prevent a tie change his read on her? I think he was changing his read because they had decided to NK Durga.

[rdrivera2005]

Well whichever one of you is town isn’t showing that you really care much

I think at this point there is not much I can do. It's obvious to me that it's Bozo and ND. I made a read on both and they practically didn't interact with the other the whole game, until D7. They voted together on Damo D1 and D2, but other then this I can't really connect them.

[bozotheclown]

Just because someone put's in 'effort' doesn't mean they are town. It may be a town indicator, but you know scum can play that game. So, anytime someone run's around saying 'look at me I put in effort I'm not scum hehe' it kind of gives me a chill. Anyway, beside the point. I don't think it's RD.

I think it has to be Ghug and probably someone who was complacent: Bozo or RD and then we have either Worcej or Durga.

I think it has to be Ghug, Bozo, Worcej. Is that likely? Ugh. I don't know. Conflict.

And for all of you still tunneling me. Just pretend I don't exist for the sake of this argument. Just, I'm not here so who are your three scum reads apart from me (because I'm not scum) Do one with me in it and do one without me in it if you want, but please think about this game on one level factoring in that I'm not scum. If you don't then it's GG.

Here on N7, ND is trying to keep suspicion away from rdrivera. Then Durga, his top scum read from D7, tells him worcej is obviously town, followed by this:

I've already factored Ghug into being scum in my mind. I was asking what made Worcej more town then the rest of that group. If we rule him out then it leaves Bozo, Rd, and Ghug.

So pending Worcej being town it has to be Bozo, Rd, Ghug.

I think rdrivera or ghug told him he should start bussing rdrivera.

I agree that Ghug probably told him he should start bussing and that's why he is voting you...

I was already on his scum list, you were the one he changed his read on.

[bozotheclown]

ND was saying it had to be ghug because he knew that either ghug would be revealed as scum or the game would be over.

[bozotheclown]

Yeah. Obviously, I am in a unique position because I know my alignment. I know that D7 was town v town. I know the scum were complacent because they didn't care who died. The evidence is there, but I really don't know how to articulate it any better than I already have.

ND is saying the "scum were complacent", but he is also now saying rdrivera is scum, and rdrivera switched his vote from Durga to flash and actively tried to get
flash lynched over ND.

ND and rdrivera both initially voted for Durga so they would not be voting with ghug, but when ND got to 4 votes and no one else voted for Durga, they joined ghug on flash, knowing bo_sox had already indicated flash was his first choice for the lynch.

[bozotheclown]

Bo, do you scumread me or not? If I'm not one of your top two or three scumreads, giving me the box was at best stupid even by your standards and at worst you as scum hiding behind the fact that we all know you're an idiot. If you're town, your control of the box effectively gave us two chances to lynch scum instead of one. If we lose because you're scared of me even though you don't townread me and none of you fuckers want to lynch the scum that's been obvious for days, I'm gonna be damn annoyed

The fact that you haven't voted or really given clear direction as to where you like to vote today is also suspect as fuck. I'm getting scum feeling out the crowd to pounce on the final mislynch vibes.


Anyway, can we please lynch. Flash?

Flash is 100% the lynch today, as I believe I've said, but I see no reason not to let everyone else have at each other for the first 36 hours or so of the day. I'll be around most of the day tomorrow to make sure things end up where they should, but info is good.

You are in my top two or three scumreads. As I stated, you aren't going to be today's lynch, so for the time being, I don't really care about pressuring you. You'll be asked to respond by many people aside from me when flash flips scum I imagine. Don't be so impatient.

Here bo_sox clearly indicates flash is his choice for the lynch D7, at 27:35 left in the day.

##Vote Flash

I guess Flash is fine.

ND then changes his vote to flash at 25:11 left in the day.

Caught up, I guess...

@Flash - I do not have a full scum team list or pairings at this point, I am mostly trying to find an individual scum and go from there. Also, we could not be at mylo right now - it depends on what ghug actually is to determine that though, and conveniently we will learn that on N7 most likely.

In general, I don't like ND's play right now. I am also equally not liking Bo's - I get the long-winded explanation from him about why ghug, but I am also torn at his 'don't give a fuck' mode that is going on as well, unless it is pressuring ND it seems. Bo also hasn't voted yet, and seeing as ND is currently the leading wagon, what are you waiting for?

Worcej, we have two chances of being in mylo:
1)Ghug is town
2)Ghug is scum and don't explode tonight (box can have up to 6 items and 2 lists).

Even considering that 1 isn't likely now, option 2 have 50% chance. So, we need to play as if we are in mylo (in fact lylo, because no lynch isn't an option).
So, I am going back to Flash as I think lynching ND is a mistake.
##vote Flash

rdrivera waits until 4:58 left in the day to change his vote to flash, probably waiting for bo_sox to vote for flash first.