Mafia round 93: hot potato! (game thread)

[Kakarroto]

•••
I came up with four options:

a) the scumteam is comprised of some combination of people who aren’t thinking hard enough to realize that the only person that wasn’t potentially being saved was mimi, because mimi had the sweet potato and passed it to bozo.

b) the scumteam is made up of a group of people that decided they don’t care about the sweet potato.

c) mimi is scum, so the mafia team knew where the sweet potato was going and knew how to avoid it.

d) bozo is scum, so the mafia team knew where the sweet potato was and knew it was out of commission.

I could easily believe option a), especially in a game where more experienced folks like worcej or Chaqa just as two off the cuff examples haven’t really put in any effort but have the background here to fearkill and the experience to take the lead in those conversations. I don’t buy b) at all because it’s just stupid. The last two options also make some sense in a vacuum and, in either case, would explain why the scumteam felt comfortable fearkilling one of the more obvious targets in a game without PRs. Knowing where the sweet potato landed is a wealth of knowledge for one night.

Purely statistically, either mimi or (inclusive) bozo being scum is more than 43%. But we also know that they both can't be scum together because then they wouldn't be able to pass it between, then this goes to 37.5%. This is based on no information but the statistics.
Now we can consider the above information. I think the fact that scum didn't avoid sweet potato combined with 37% chance is not ignorable.
I would therefore put a slight suspicion on mimi or bozo.

Yes, the SP is still in the game. Also, DreamTrawler said he passed his D1 HP to Control V, so it seems like all HPs are still in the game as well.

Sorry if I'm missing something but is there any benefit to town hiding HPs? We should all claim HPs to locate the night kill, and hiding this information should be scum-indicator, I would say but I also can't see a way scum can and should hide this. Anyway, I think we should all fill up bozo's potato claims list.
And I'm probably missing something here, why is the list updated for N1? Why not D2?

I hath two sizzling potates

I have not been suggesting players provide there current HP status since there was some objection to that, but I don't see any reason to keep it hidden.

I think about it and see no reason to hide our potatoes. A little forced but maybe you want nobody to fake claim sending a potato by taking advantage of their ownership claim, but then, we can agree to claim ownership after the previous owner makes the claim and the owner then confirms? Is there any downside?

brainbomb has replaced worcej

Welcome to the game bb!
I have an unprofessional townread on brainbomb. My reasoning is that, if worcej was scum, Sparta would first fill that spot with me instead of foodcoats. I know my alignment to be town and worcej being filled after food.. even townier?

Can somebody summarize the fabricated tie you tried to make on D1. I tried to read but it's impossible to read the entire day in one sitting. I read kak's couch potato claim and and end of day messages, I can understand why you would tie it but it seems like there was no consensus for it.
Given Kak's vote was null, Dip's switch near the EoD breaks the tie and makes ND the lead, and only leaving to someone else after ND wagon attracts another player. This is strange behavior especially since himself is the second leading wagon.

at the time I didn't really understand what dip was going for, why I should switch to mimi, and not myself or something, but in retrospect I understand that he wanted me on mimi so it looks like we tied. But I was sure that my vote wasn't shown on the endscreen, so I didn't understand why he wanted me to switch to mimi, because for me it was the same for the total votecount.

But yeah, if it wouldn't have been shown in the endscreen, then, if I switched to mimi and it was looking as if the two wagons were tied, but ND still got yeeted, then it would've been very logical to assume that I was telling the truth, even when it wasn't shown in the endscreen

If you knew that your vote won't be counted, wouldn't it make more sense for you to stand on a single-voter wagon, to prevent confusion for the town? You claimed before EoD1, so still I don't understand what Dip wanted here. I see that you were also trying to tie it but being on a major wagon where vote counts still include you wasn't helping at all.

it is also reasonably guessable that i would pass it to one of damo or bozo. the question is then whether scum having figured that out would want to take that risk n1

Why is that?



Also I was almost losing my wall post so I'm posting this here and continuing to build another one.

ok, responding to that is hard, let me try to make it clearer with colour

How do you arrive at a 43% starting chance? Is it because neither was nk'ed? Or is that because of something else? How high would be the chance of two other people, lets say, worbomb(or braincej, if you prefer that) and myself? Or between Dream and Will?


Well, there is at least some benefit for hiding the (current) owner for the couch potato, since that changes only at the end of day. If everyone know that X's vote doesn't count the next day, that would significly decrease the impact of the target and can lead to a big info decrease.

Regarding the rotten potato, I think I don't need to explain why that's a bad idea.

For hot potatoes themselves, I guess if ownership is only revealed at the end or near the end of a phase, that should be fine enough. But it also could lead to different behaviour if like, X knows that Y has a HP today and is much likely throwing it in spite, so better not anger them or butter them up. At least that could lead to some conflicting information and people could misread that sentiment, and think someone town is actually mafia due to feeling forced? Maybe I overemphasize that, but I think that's not too little of an issue


a double verification makes sense. It's a bit intensive for some, and people might opt out for it, but I'm not opposed to it. But I think, as in said in blue, it shouldn't probably be right at the start of the phase? Maybe more like the end, or the halfway point, if we have to go through a few of them?


oh, do you know when both of them requested a substitution? If worcej requested the sub out first and foods slot was done first, I would agree with you, that if your slot is town, braincej is most likely town. But if it's just how the two requested the sub out, then it's pretty much NAI. And even then we shouldn't taket hat into account for fairness purposes? Because that can lead to a whole bunch of a thing


well, I wanted to participate in the voting, if I just kept at a single wagon all day, what information would you all gotten from me? That I have the couch potato and like sitting on a single thing? Not very good. Instead I pushed someone that didn't contribute much and that little that he gave was suspicious to me. And while I was wrong, I could've done much worse.

Now at the end, I DID come to the idea that I could vote myself (as I wasn't voted by anyone that time) to not confuse people, but dip shot that down (he thought at the time the vote wouldn't be reduced from t he end result, so that'S understandable)

and as far as I understand it, dip didn't know that my vote would not show in the end result, thus (what I only understood later, not at the time) I should vote mimi, to make it look like the wagons are tied 4 to 4, but then when my vote didn't count ND would still be the dayvote, since it would've been actually 4 to 3.

Later when he noticed that the vote would be visibly retracted from the endresult, he said himself it wasn't necessary. But yeah, since I met backlash to my idea to vote a single wagon (like myself) and I didn't understand at the time what dip actually wanted from me, I stayed on ND

But I never wanted to actually tie the vote so we didn't get a no-kill result, that was the whole point of me claiming it in time

[Kakarroto]

Completely unbothered. This is pretty normal for games I play in, and it's also part of my playstyle so I don't get night-killed.

famous last words before a potato disaster

If everyone just keeps sending me their hot potatoes, I will eventually be proven as town

good answer. So who is mafia then?

[Kakarroto]

Unpopular opinion but Civ 6 is fun. Its not the same gameplay loop as 5 but saying its unfun is not true

Only an unpopular opinion in the weird circle of the internet WebDip exists in. Civ 6 is widely viewed as a vastly superior game.

Civ 5 punished you for building a civilization. It just wanted you to build a Tri-City area. Civ 6 is like Civ 4 in that it feels like you're progressing outward and expanding.

Civ 7 trash tho fr

to be fair, 7 is newly out and isn't finished like the other games. The other things I dislike is the UI, and the monetization from it. It began with 6, but the anthology package was a great offer, so I took that, and never regretted buying it.

for 7, it still has time to improve, and I hope past developments are repeated. But as is, 7 is not only vastly overpriced, but an inferior product

[Kakarroto]

I was told that I have the couch potato and thus my vote is not going to count today I assume this should be helpful to avoiding potential ties.

well, that much is true, my original target died and my second target (worcej at the time) got it. First I had Chaqa as the second target, but after I saw that he voted ND with me I changed it to worcej, as I had him as a highly likely mafia.

At night I had a bit of change of heart, and it was mostly his uninvolvedness that triggered that read. I mean, by no means I thought worcej is town for it, and was still firm in my PoE, but he went a bit lower on the potential mafia, since he does that as town too.

Would've liked to have targeted Red, Paste or Will more afterwards, but at the time it was already too late.

I think though you claiming that soon isn't giving us too good of information, like, now everyone knows and pretty sure there are many that just ignore what you say due to it, since your vote has no weight now.

[Kakarroto]

Disagree on mimi, their agenda is self evident in that the scummy thing about them is their posts are tonally defunct and lack any energy. Even their most decent damo push just looks rather pitifully conceived of. Im not impressed w their first 20 pages and Im really surprised you are

i'm trying to contribute but failing

if i'm incapable of making good reads i can promise it's not bc i'm scum

never let anyone tell you that you aren't contributing by not having good reads. Sure, good reads would help a lot, but there's so much more in how and why you get to those reads, that way people get to know your thoughts better and can read you better. And that is a whole lot of contribution.

Catching mafia is only part of the game. Showing that you are town is equally important. Like, last game, I got Bunny and Will right, but at the end, I couldn't bring it home for town because I was too much thought of being mafia. So showing successfully that you are town is loads.

Well if you are mafia, feel free to fail there. But I hope you get my point. Every town member that find each other is another step to victory, and we can only win as a team

and don't be afraid of your reads being bad. Better to send what you got than to just retreat and try to solve it all in one go but never tell anything. It's ok to be wrong (well, not all of the time, but don't be afraid of making some mistakes in the process)

[Kakarroto]

##CALL GM is the couch potato like the sweet potato in that it can't be passed among mafia or is that only the sweet potato

The couch potato can be passed mafia - mafia. Only the sweet potato has the restriction against mafia - mafia.

ohh, and there I thought I might prove that I'm town there.

[Kakarroto]

Chaqa whats a reasonable phase that we can expect you to care about this game and we can just shelve you aside as a townclear frozen in liquid goo until we need to thaw you out to save us from ourselves?

my guess is final 5 or final 3

[Kakarroto]

Okay how bout we cryo freeze your sperm and create a race of super chaqas who can post 300 times a phase with killer reads

there aren't enough chipotle's in the world to energize that force

[Kakarroto]

Also Brainbomb’s reads are nearly completely the opposite of mine minus Red and Will

And Kaka assuming Brainbomb is telling the truth what was the rationale of passing couch potato to Worcej?

well on day one I was very sus of worcej, thought he has a high chance of being town. Thought if he flipped mafia that proves me town. But as I said, I should've sent it to someone else, as I was overweighing the uninvolvedness for worcej, it's pretty common for him to not participate much at the start, as much as I don't like it.

But as I just got to know, that doesn't even work and even if braincej flips mafia, that doesn't prove I'm town now

[Kakarroto]

GM POST

Vote count 2.4

JustAGuyNamedWill (4): DreamTrawler, Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare, brainbomb
DiplomacyandWarfare (3): yavuzovic, bozotheclown, Jamiet99uk
Kakarroto (2): JustAGuyNamedWill, bo_sox48
yavuzovic (1): rdrivera2005
damo666 (1): miminena

JustAGuyNamedWill is being marinated.

BunnyGo, Chaqa, Control V, damo666, and Red Neurax need to vote.

rdrivera2005 needs to post more.

Just under 17 hours remain in Day 2.

the eff why are you all voting the most towny of all?

is this an effort to save a Will-mate?

[Kakarroto]

Why is everyone voting Just?

I had my doubts, but right now, given the alternative wagons, this is the only decent one

[Kakarroto]

Why is everyone voting Just?

One of Drunk Bunny’s (TM) only contributions was saying just was town. So I’ll probably vote anyone else.

I might leave, but not to make dip or me the top wagon with that.

What about Red, Control V? Now that brain has the slot, I want to give him some time and see, because I know brain wont just be quiet, which was a reason why worcej was in my PoE.

maybe even Chaqa? But I would prefer Red or Paste above him, but would probably vote Chaqa to safe dip

[Kakarroto]

I didn't yet read those questions from EoD so I can't say anything about bozo, but randomly accusing people is more of a town thing to do than mafia. Mafia would find baseless excuses or misinterpret cues but what you accuse and vote bozo for is not necessarily a scum indicator in my opinion.

I recognize that, but I am not tolerating this behavior, given the amount of coasting in this game. If bozo unvotes me I may consider moving my vote, but bozo's reasoning is absurd and I do not accept it.

And I do not accept you voting end over something that isn't a scumread but retaliation.
##unvote
I did this so I can vote for you again.
##vote Diplomacy

how did you break this post in the original, in preview this looks normally quoted, and I haven't have looked at the bot, but does it now show yav voting bozo?

all kind of crazy tinfoil theories are now in my head about that, like, if I quote this and it shows broken again, does it break again and I suddenly vote bozo (officially for the bot) while my actual vote is for dip? Time to find out

[Kakarroto]

I recognize that, but I am not tolerating this behavior, given the amount of coasting in this game. If bozo unvotes me I may consider moving my vote, but bozo's reasoning is absurd and I do not accept it.

And I do not accept you voting end over something that isn't a scumread but retaliation.
##unvote
I did this so I can vote for you again.
##vote Diplomacy

how did you break this post in the original, in preview this looks normally quoted, and I haven't have looked at the bot, but does it now show yav voting bozo?

all kind of crazy tinfoil theories are now in my head about that, like, if I quote this and it shows broken again, does it break again and I suddenly vote bozo (officially for the bot) while my actual vote is for dip? Time to find out

ok, I guess that was just a quirk from the forum then? strange. Maybe dargo wants to have a look into that original post then?

[Kakarroto]

What does "spewed" mean in this context?

I feel like this is some Mafiascum lingo that we don't use over in this civilised neck of the woods.

Rather than being childish about the term coming from a community you dont like you could have tried to understand what he was saying. He is simply saying bo has become town by backing himself into that position.

A reasonable thing to ask why control v thinks this is true.

Jamie does not operate or think that arbitrary matters deem someone town so this is not a scummy thing for Jamie to question on the surface. I think however that Jamie understood that control V was implying bo is town. The post seems to suggest it. So the focus of whats wrong with control v talking point is deliberately being overshadowed by community bashing to mask the posts content

This stream of consciousness is very hard to read. To clarify, I did not understand the use of the term "spewed" in Control 5's post, and I wanted to know what it meant.

"Control 5" made me chuckle

[Kakarroto]

I support red dying his posts are really bad

The alternative is to keep tossing potatoes at him.
That would also force him to make decisions even if he does not die.

that's actually a great point. I support the first annual potato avalanche onto Red (if he doesn't get voted out)

[brainbomb]

I dont think there is any reason to make people uncertain of if wagons are real or not. My opinions on the game are secondary to people being able to trust that ties are not a secret possibility

[yavuzovic]

Should I not be voting where I intend to pass one of
My two Potoatoes and then hard claim it at end of day ?

In the event my Hot Potato blows me up

I think we can follow hot potatoes rather easily. Only a scum would lie about their ownership and after that they would have two options: throwing the potato to a town and revealing the potato once again or throwing it to another mafia and eventually killing one of themselves. Either way, I don't think anyone is going to lie about having a HP. I'm still in favor of voting nokill.

*pats yavuz*

Oh you silly lil man. How ive missed you.

On a side note there is a character in my novel the wonder theif named yavuz and hes a time traveler child who supports the main characters in their attempt to stop numerous heists of famous world wonders

Hahaha, the only case I hear the word yavuz outside being a human name is when it is used as an adjective in a proverb, and you should definitely check out that proverb!

[Kakarroto]

You probably shouldnt be too concerned with where im voting. My vote does nothing. At end of day my vote will not be on anything consequential because it would just cause confusion in the counts.

Oh yes you have the Couch Potato don't you.
Thanks for the reminder.

Your vote still matters as a lasting indication of your suspicions, however.

I disagree. We will know he had couch potato. We will inspect his reads not his votes on D2. I support brain and all future couch potatoes to vote nokill

that is why I declared so late on Day one

that is why I didn't reveal (and didn't plan to reveal until much later)

that is why I don't understand why brain claimed so early despite it being in the thread that is should be not claimed too early

[brainbomb]

Again, my reads on the game are generally ignored en masse anyway. Claiming seemed beneficial to knowing that mafia did not hold a couch potato and could drive up wagon ties. People can vote without that added concern