Tariffs on Chips

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Esquire Bertissimmo
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Re: Tariffs on Chips

#61 Post by Esquire Bertissimmo » Wed Apr 09, 2025 12:49 pm

Octavious wrote:
Wed Apr 09, 2025 3:47 am
It might work, again depending somewhat on how you define work. And yes, all the definitions are a bit fluffy but that's economics and politics for you.

What is largely absent from your analysis is an acknowledgement that the status quo wasn't working either. And not just from a dying rust belt perspective, but from the point of view that a massive trade deficit backed up by massive borrowing is not sustainable. A substantial change was inevitable in the near future regardless of who was in charge, and the standard model is a rather airy fairy idea of doing the same thing better and hoping it's enough. And in fairness historically it has been enough, but the fundamental problems remain and seem to grow.

But instead we have this. I don't think this is good, but that is tempered somewhat in my mind by not thinking what was there before was good. It is entirely possible that there are no good solutions or ways forward.

In short I've been expecting the shit to hit the fan for some time, and what we have from Trump is different shit and a different fan. It's likely going to get messy, but I don't know nearly enough to predict how bad it will be and whether it will be significantly worse than the alternative. I don't think anyone does.
This is mostly right, but it still matters to me that Trump's recent moves have nothing to do with this.

The US has a trade deficit because it borrows more than it saves. That's a fundamental law of economics, literally like gravity, that no one in the Trump admin seems to understand. It's a literal accounting identity that has to be true. The only way the tariffs "fix" this underlying problem is if they decimate the US consumers' buying power so much that people actually save, and if they legitimately cut the federal deficit (which they won't, because DOGE won't touch 80% of spending on entitlements).

The reckoning here could have been good policy. Trump blew up the WTO in his first term by disengaging and failing to appoint appellants — he could have reformed it instead, with the support of basically every other country on earth since basically everyone wanted new rules to restrain China. His admin could actually be doing something about the federal budget — the deficit-financed tax cuts from his first term were a monumental step in the opposite direction. America could help every rust belter directly by actually redistributing the gains from trade with a social safety net like all its allies have, and that would actually work while this trade war won't.

Trump is too often given a pass for "at least he's doing something" in response to huge, real issues. But very often the things he's doing are making that issue worse lol, this trade war is a prime example. He should be castigated for making it worse, not praised for trying something asinine that will foreseeably worsen the problem.

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Re: Tariffs on Chips

#62 Post by Esquire Bertissimmo » Wed Apr 09, 2025 3:26 pm

Octavious wrote:
Wed Apr 09, 2025 3:47 am
It might work, again depending somewhat on how you define work. And yes, all the definitions are a bit fluffy but that's economics and politics for you.
I'm curious how you define "work" in this context.

For the reasons I've outlined in this thread the tariff war won't "work", since it will impoverish Americans without actually addressing the current account imbalances that cause US trade deficits.

What is the silver lining here? What concessions could America conceivably get that would be worth the self-harm they've already suffered (let alone what's likely to happen in the coming months)?

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Re: Tariffs on Chips

#63 Post by Esquire Bertissimmo » Wed Apr 09, 2025 7:25 pm

Lol now the "reciprocal" tariffs have been paused for 90 days...kind of. Most countries are still getting at least a 10% tariff imposed on them. China will still face the 100%+ rate.

So did China just save the global economy? By calling Trump's bluff they made the US back off from the insane and unsustainable position of tariffing everyone all at once, while apparently expecting no blowback whatsoever.

This uncertainty is *killing* investment everywhere, but especially in the States. Meanwhile, whatever leverage the US hoped to gain with the tariffs, if that was even the point, is diminishing. And the pause does nothing to restore confidence in the US as a trade and investment partner - it will suffer nearly all of the reputational damage that would have occurred if they had just stayed the course.

This is simply *not* strategic. There is no conceivable way this advances even Trump's own agenda.

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Re: Tariffs on Chips

#64 Post by Jamiet99uk » Wed Apr 09, 2025 7:32 pm

Esquire Bertissimmo wrote:
Wed Apr 09, 2025 7:25 pm
Lol now the "reciprocal" tariffs have been paused for 90 days...kind of. Most countries are still getting at least a 10% tariff imposed on them. China will still face the 100%+ rate.

So did China just save the global economy? By calling Trump's bluff they made the US back off from the insane and unsustainable position of tariffing everyone all at once, while apparently expecting no blowback whatsoever.

This uncertainty is *killing* investment everywhere, but especially in the States. Meanwhile, whatever leverage the US hoped to gain with the tariffs, if that was even the point, is diminishing. And the pause does nothing to restore confidence in the US as a trade and investment partner - it will suffer nearly all of the reputational damage that would have occurred if they had just stayed the course.

This is simply *not* strategic. There is no conceivable way this advances even Trump's own agenda.
Unless, and this is kind of what Oct has been saying, his "agenda" is just to be seen to be doing something different and challenging the status quo, for the benefit of a poorly informed audience who will praise him for that alone even if it harms their country.....
Potato, potato; potato.

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Re: Tariffs on Chips

#65 Post by Esquire Bertissimmo » Wed Apr 09, 2025 7:39 pm

Oct will surely disagree with this, but I think even that imputes more strategic thinking than what has been on display in the past few weeks on the trade file. There were simpler and less damaging ways to fool the ignorant about trade policy if that were the goal lol. I strongly suspect they thought China would roll over, in which case they would have continued on with the previous "reciprocal" tariff approach on everyone else.

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Re: Tariffs on Chips

#66 Post by Esquire Bertissimmo » Wed Apr 09, 2025 7:47 pm

I imagine the big bump in Treasury yields this morning was the straw that broke the camel's back. China proved it can totally fuck the US government by dumping treasuries if the US is also alienating anyone else who might consider buying them (they certainly seem like a much riskier asset today than they did mere weeks ago).

Trump and company can weather equity market fluctuations - most Americans don't have savings and administration insiders stood to make money from the volatility over the medium- to long-run. But rising bond yields, simultaneous to rising recession risk, is a flashing red light for a very deep and hard-to-abate downturn, not to mention the impacts on the debt and deficit.

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Re: Tariffs on Chips

#67 Post by Esquire Bertissimmo » Wed Apr 09, 2025 8:47 pm

Jesus, Trump told all his Truth Social supporters this morning "THIS IS A GREAT TIME TO BUY!!! DJT".

Now he's openly manipulating the market to enrich his most diehard fans in order to defray the political consequences of *his* policies which tanked the market in the first place.

Absolute piece of shit.

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Re: Tariffs on Chips

#68 Post by Esquire Bertissimmo » Wed Apr 09, 2025 9:47 pm

I'm ranting now but what a fucking grift. The President of the US just did a reverse pump-and-dump on the entirety of US equities. How many times can he do that before the US becomes un-investible? Turkey under Erdogan is becoming a very appropriate comparison.

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Re: Tariffs on Chips

#69 Post by Jamiet99uk » Wed Apr 09, 2025 11:13 pm

Esquire Bertissimmo wrote:
Wed Apr 09, 2025 9:47 pm
I'm ranting now but what a fucking grift. The President of the US just did a reverse pump-and-dump on the entirety of US equities. How many times can he do that before the US becomes un-investible? Turkey under Erdogan is becoming a very appropriate comparison.
I have said this already but HE SHOULD BE IN JAIL and America isn't a democracy.
Potato, potato; potato.

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