Twenty questions, round 502

[Aristocrat]

I’ve found a few possibilities but no one really 20Q worthy

[Jamiet99uk]

I know who I want to guess, if the answer to my Q20 is "yes".

[Aristocrat]

Free guess: Thierry Henry

[Spartaculous]

Free guess: Thierry Henry

Just landed. Henry is correct!

Do you know why he was the pick?

[Aristocrat]

Free guess: Thierry Henry

Just landed. Henry is correct!

Do you know why he was the pick?

I have no clue. There were a couple 20Q-worthy NBA players (Dominique and Dirk) who failed certain questions. No one from NHL/MLB/NFL. My knowledge of sports outside the US is pretty limited except for the few who manage to get truly international exposure and Henry was the only one I could think of who fit the criteria. The other super-superstars I know were born in the wrong country or were too young to fit.

[Aristocrat]

Free guess: Thierry Henry

Just landed. Henry is correct!

Do you know why he was the pick?

I have no clue. There were a couple 20Q-worthy NBA players (Dominique and Dirk) who failed certain questions. No one from NHL/MLB/NFL. My knowledge of sports outside the US is pretty limited except for the few who manage to get truly international exposure and Henry was the only one I could think of who fit the criteria. The other super-superstars I know were born in the wrong country or were too young to fit.

Also, fun round. I’ve got some things to deal with so the next round won’t be up for a few hours. Maybe someone can figure out the riddle of 502 in the meantime.

[Spartaculous]

Free guess: Thierry Henry

Just landed. Henry is correct!

Do you know why he was the pick?

I have no clue. There were a couple 20Q-worthy NBA players (Dominique and Dirk) who failed certain questions. No one from NHL/MLB/NFL. My knowledge of sports outside the US is pretty limited except for the few who manage to get truly international exposure and Henry was the only one I could think of who fit the criteria. The other super-superstars I know were born in the wrong country or were too young to fit.

This pick was in honor of cdngooner, who used to play 20Q with us. I believe that his name reflected his support of Arsenal (their fans are called "Gooners"), so I picked Arsenal's most famous player.

[miminena]

cdngooner i believe was the first ever 20q winner, and fairly consistently won games until #361. probably one of the best 20q players (admittedly out of a relatively small pool but still)

[DreamTrawler]

Just landed. Henry is correct!

Do you know why he was the pick?

I have no clue. There were a couple 20Q-worthy NBA players (Dominique and Dirk) who failed certain questions. No one from NHL/MLB/NFL. My knowledge of sports outside the US is pretty limited except for the few who manage to get truly international exposure and Henry was the only one I could think of who fit the criteria. The other super-superstars I know were born in the wrong country or were too young to fit.

This pick was in honor of cdngooner, who used to play 20Q with us. I believe that his name reflected his support of Arsenal (their fans are called "Gooners"), so I picked Arsenal's most famous player.

I'll be the first to say it - that moniker has unfortunately not aged well. Hope cdngooner comes back to us though!

[Spartaculous]

Free guess: Thierry Henry

Just landed. Henry is correct!

Do you know why he was the pick?

I have no clue. There were a couple 20Q-worthy NBA players (Dominique and Dirk) who failed certain questions. No one from NHL/MLB/NFL. My knowledge of sports outside the US is pretty limited except for the few who manage to get truly international exposure and Henry was the only one I could think of who fit the criteria. The other super-superstars I know were born in the wrong country or were too young to fit.

I learned from this that Dominique Hawkins was born in Paris, so thank you.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm sorry to be a spoilsport but I'm a little disappointed with how the tail end of this round was adjudicated.

I asked question 20. I was aware it was the 20th question. It was a valid question however.

I had a small shortlist of European footballers who I thought it might be if the answer was "yes". I won't lie and say I would have guessed Henry. My first thought was Steffen Freund. But Henry was on my list of five.

However.

The QM chose not to answer my question, and instead to invite free guesses from the regular audience. One of those people guessed, and guessed right, and well done to them.

But I'm slightly concerned.

On what basis does the QM have the discretion to refuse to answer a TOTALLY VALID question just because they want to give their mates more time to try to win?

This is ultimately a contest. It's a fun and casual game but there's a leader board, we keep stats. I have fallen down the leaderboard because I can't be online 24 hours a day. I asked a valid question and the QM deliberately didn't answer it, to increase the chances of my opponents in the game.

I don't think that's quite right.

I think that in future there should be a rule that if a valid question is asked, within the rules of the game, that the QM is able to clearly answer, then the QM *MUST* answer it.

[DreamTrawler]

I think that's fair, Jamie. Free guesses are nice but it is called 20 questions at the end of the day.

[miminena]

I'm sorry to be a spoilsport but I'm a little disappointed with how the tail end of this round was adjudicated.

I asked question 20. I was aware it was the 20th question. It was a valid question however.

I had a small shortlist of European footballers who I thought it might be if the answer was "yes". I won't lie and say I would have guessed Henry. My first thought was Steffen Freund. But Henry was on my list of five.

However.

The QM chose not to answer my question, and instead to invite free guesses from the regular audience. One of those people guessed, and guessed right, and well done to them.

But I'm slightly concerned.

On what basis does the QM have the discretion to refuse to answer a TOTALLY VALID question just because they want to give their mates more time to try to win?

This is ultimately a contest. It's a fun and casual game but there's a leader board, we keep stats. I have fallen down the leaderboard because I can't be online 24 hours a day. I asked a valid question and the QM deliberately didn't answer it, to increase the chances of my opponents in the game.

I don't think that's quite right.

I think that in future there should be a rule that if a valid question is asked, within the rules of the game, that the QM is able to clearly answer, then the QM *MUST* answer it.

this is a good idea for a rule; I think it's in the spirit of the game for the qm to answer every question to the best of their ability, with the exception of when a question asks about redundant information

[JECE]

I'm sorry to be a spoilsport but I'm a little disappointed with how the tail end of this round was adjudicated.

I asked question 20. I was aware it was the 20th question. It was a valid question however.

I had a small shortlist of European footballers who I thought it might be if the answer was "yes". I won't lie and say I would have guessed Henry. My first thought was Steffen Freund. But Henry was on my list of five.

However.

The QM chose not to answer my question, and instead to invite free guesses from the regular audience. One of those people guessed, and guessed right, and well done to them.

But I'm slightly concerned.

On what basis does the QM have the discretion to refuse to answer a TOTALLY VALID question just because they want to give their mates more time to try to win?

This is ultimately a contest. It's a fun and casual game but there's a leader board, we keep stats. I have fallen down the leaderboard because I can't be online 24 hours a day. I asked a valid question and the QM deliberately didn't answer it, to increase the chances of my opponents in the game.

I don't think that's quite right.

I think that in future there should be a rule that if a valid question is asked, within the rules of the game, that the QM is able to clearly answer, then the QM *MUST* answer it.

this is a good idea for a rule; I think it's in the spirit of the game for the qm to answer every question to the best of their ability, with the exception of when a question asks about redundant information

My version of the rules (that was in use for a while) had this as one of the ten commandments, more so as a means to forbid the use of conditional questions than anything.

I'm not sure why the current version of the rules allows for conditional questions, but not conditional guesses. I'm not sure that I agree with Jamiet99uk's complaint, but I can understand the frustration if he wasn't allowed a conditional guess.

[Aristocrat]

A couple points (this was meant to be short, but I don't have any time to edit this down):

First, I don't think Spartaculous's idea was to deny Jamie a win or boost my (or anyone else's) chance of winning. It happens with some regularity that QMs will pause at 19 to get people a chance to give a free guess if so desired. But if people want to try a rule where a Q20 asked (as opposed to answered) cuts off free guesses, that's fine. Or that a QM has to answer a validly posed question instead of waiting, that's fine too. Of course, it's difficult to police the latter since a sly QM could just not post rather than announce that they're waiting for free guesses to come in, so you probably need both of the above for it to work.

I don't think there has been a QM win in 300+ rounds, not because people are so good at guessing, but mostly because QMs do this and that (wait for free guesses, offer additional questions, provide clues, etc.) to help the guessers and keep the QM seat rotating. This also has a bonus of allowing for a greater number of possible picks, because some of the more obscure or clever picks sometimes need a little extra. Sometimes those bonus pushes come at the (unintentional) expense of some players. I have made the point before of asking whether a clue is incoming, since there was a period of time where I seemed to miss answers with a bad guess only for QMs to come in and give a big boost with a clue right after. I don't think that is malicious, but it can be annoying to the player it seems to harm.

Second, my recollection is that conditional guesses were disallowed because people - generally the same people with a ton of wins - got very good at asking pinpoint questions that could only lead to one realistic answer, so it ended up being a way to snipe answers very early in the rounds and box out newer players (e.g., does this person have [XYZ] award during [this time period]? If yes, [conditional guess], where only [conditional guess] could be the answer). Conditional questions are a little different since the benefit doesn't just accrue to the player asking it.

[DreamTrawler]

I'm sorry to be a spoilsport but I'm a little disappointed with how the tail end of this round was adjudicated.

I asked question 20. I was aware it was the 20th question. It was a valid question however.

I had a small shortlist of European footballers who I thought it might be if the answer was "yes". I won't lie and say I would have guessed Henry. My first thought was Steffen Freund. But Henry was on my list of five.

However.

The QM chose not to answer my question, and instead to invite free guesses from the regular audience. One of those people guessed, and guessed right, and well done to them.

But I'm slightly concerned.

On what basis does the QM have the discretion to refuse to answer a TOTALLY VALID question just because they want to give their mates more time to try to win?

This is ultimately a contest. It's a fun and casual game but there's a leader board, we keep stats. I have fallen down the leaderboard because I can't be online 24 hours a day. I asked a valid question and the QM deliberately didn't answer it, to increase the chances of my opponents in the game.

I don't think that's quite right.

I think that in future there should be a rule that if a valid question is asked, within the rules of the game, that the QM is able to clearly answer, then the QM *MUST* answer it.

this is a good idea for a rule; I think it's in the spirit of the game for the qm to answer every question to the best of their ability, with the exception of when a question asks about redundant information

My version of the rules (that was in use for a while) had this as one of the ten commandments, more so as a means to forbid the use of conditional questions than anything.

I'm not sure why the current version of the rules allows for conditional questions, but not conditional guesses. I'm not sure that I agree with Jamiet99uk's complaint, but I can understand the frustration if he wasn't allowed a conditional guess.

I am against bringing back conditional guesses, personally. Primarily because I think I in particular was abusing them and it made the game kind of flowcharty - i.e. stuff like "If yes, is this person from the UK? If yes guess X, if no guess Y." Conditional questions are fine because they allow for more information gathering without someone being able to use them to cover multiple guesses. Also, the games are getting really fast, and conditional guesses would make them even faster.

[JECE]

this is a good idea for a rule; I think it's in the spirit of the game for the qm to answer every question to the best of their ability, with the exception of when a question asks about redundant information

My version of the rules (that was in use for a while) had this as one of the ten commandments, more so as a means to forbid the use of conditional questions than anything.

I'm not sure why the current version of the rules allows for conditional questions, but not conditional guesses. I'm not sure that I agree with Jamiet99uk's complaint, but I can understand the frustration if he wasn't allowed a conditional guess.

I am against bringing back conditional guesses, personally. Primarily because I think I in particular was abusing them and it made the game kind of flowcharty - i.e. stuff like "If yes, is this person from the UK? If yes guess X, if no guess Y." Conditional questions are fine because they allow for more information gathering without someone being able to use them to cover multiple guesses. Also, the games are getting really fast, and conditional guesses would make them even faster.

The flowcharty argument applies to conditional questions too in my opinion. I'm still against allowing conditional questions. But you raise a fair point about banning conditional guesses too to slow down the games. I was previously neutral on whether to allow conditional guesses, but I now think that both should be banned.

[JECE]

A couple points (this was meant to be short, but I don't have any time to edit this down):

First, I don't think Spartaculous's idea was to deny Jamie a win or boost my (or anyone else's) chance of winning. It happens with some regularity that QMs will pause at 19 to get people a chance to give a free guess if so desired. But if people want to try a rule where a Q20 asked (as opposed to answered) cuts off free guesses, that's fine. Or that a QM has to answer a validly posed question instead of waiting, that's fine too. Of course, it's difficult to police the latter since a sly QM could just not post rather than announce that they're waiting for free guesses to come in, so you probably need both of the above for it to work.

I don't think there has been a QM win in 300+ rounds, not because people are so good at guessing, but mostly because QMs do this and that (wait for free guesses, offer additional questions, provide clues, etc.) to help the guessers and keep the QM seat rotating. This also has a bonus of allowing for a greater number of possible picks, because some of the more obscure or clever picks sometimes need a little extra. Sometimes those bonus pushes come at the (unintentional) expense of some players. I have made the point before of asking whether a clue is incoming, since there was a period of time where I seemed to miss answers with a bad guess only for QMs to come in and give a big boost with a clue right after. I don't think that is malicious, but it can be annoying to the player it seems to harm.

Second, my recollection is that conditional guesses were disallowed because people - generally the same people with a ton of wins - got very good at asking pinpoint questions that could only lead to one realistic answer, so it ended up being a way to snipe answers very early in the rounds and box out newer players (e.g., does this person have [XYZ] award during [this time period]? If yes, [conditional guess], where only [conditional guess] could be the answer). Conditional questions are a little different since the benefit doesn't just accrue to the player asking it.

I agree with you on your first point. Your second point is a bit strange to me. For my most recent win, I asked a 'pinpoint' conditional question, but only for effect to add commentary/my opinion:

Was this person a murderous totalitarian known for wearing red?

If yes, Cardinal Richelieu

I definitely wasn't trying to 'snipe' a win since I had no doubt that I had the correct person in mind.

[Aristocrat]

I agree with you on your first point. Your second point is a bit strange to me. For my most recent win, I asked a 'pinpoint' conditional question, but only for effect to add commentary/my opinion:

Was this person a murderous totalitarian known for wearing red?

If yes, Cardinal Richelieu

I definitely wasn't trying to 'snipe' a win since I had no doubt that I had the correct person in mind.

It wasn’t meant as a dig at you or a reference to that round in particular, since I think the answer was very gettable by the time you guessed it. I think there were some other rounds where conditional guesses significantly moved the game along more quickly than otherwise would have happened.

[JECE]

I agree with you on your first point. Your second point is a bit strange to me. For my most recent win, I asked a 'pinpoint' conditional question, but only for effect to add commentary/my opinion:

Was this person a murderous totalitarian known for wearing red?

If yes, Cardinal Richelieu

I definitely wasn't trying to 'snipe' a win since I had no doubt that I had the correct person in mind.

It wasn’t meant as a dig at you or a reference to that round in particular, since I think the answer was very gettable by the time you guessed it. I think there were some other rounds where conditional guesses significantly moved the game along more quickly than otherwise would have happened.

I just meant that I can't picture it (not that I've really been following very closely of late)