M1035 - Julius Caesar Mafia - Game Thread

[Kakarroto]

Here are the accumulated VC's, coloured in in their flips (normally people do them earlier, especially Jamie, but until now no one seemed to have bothered to do them)

DAY I. VOTECOUNT I.

Kakarroto (II) - Jamiet99uk, damo666
BunnyGo (I) - DiplomacyandWarfare
DiplomacyandWarfare (I) - ghug

DAY I. VOTECOUNT II.

DiplomacyandWarfare (II) - ghug, BunnyGo
Kakarroto (I) - damo666
BunnyGo (I) - DiplomacyandWarfare
DreamTrawler (I) - Jamiet99uk
Red Neurax (I) - Kakarroto

DAY I. VOTECOUNT III.

DiplomacyandWarfare (III) - ghug, BunnyGo, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (I) - damo666
BunnyGo (I) - DiplomacyandWarfare
Red Neurax (I) - Kakarroto

Unvoted: Jamiet99uk

DAY I. VOTECOUNT IV.

Red Neurax (II) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare
DiplomacyandWarfare (II) - BunnyGo, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (I) - damo666
damo666 (I) - ghug
ghug (I) - JustAGuyNamedWill

Unvoted: Jamiet99uk

DAY I. VOTECOUNT V.

DiplomacyandWarfare (III) - BunnyGo, DreamTrawler, damo666
Red Neurax (II) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare
ghug (II) - JustAGuyNamedWill, Jamiet99uk
damo666 (I) - ghug

Red Neurax still must place a vote

DAY I. VOTECOUNT VI.

DiplomacyandWarfare (II) - DreamTrawler, damo666
Red Neurax (II) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare
ghug (II) - JustAGuyNamedWill, Jamiet99uk
Jamiet99uk (II) - ghug, BunnyGo
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax

DAY I. VOTECOUNT VII

Red Neurax (III) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare, damo666
ghug (II) - JustAGuyNamedWill, Jamiet99uk
Jamiet99uk (II) - ghug, BunnyGo
DiplomacyandWarfare (I) - DreamTrawler
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax

DAY I. VOTECOUNT VIII.

Red Neurax (V) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare, damo666, BunnyGo, DreamTrawler
Jamiet99uk (I) - ghug
ghug (I) - JustAGuyNamedWill
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax
damo666 (I) - Jamiet99uk

DAY I. VOTECOUNT IX.

Red Neurax (IV) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare, damo666, DreamTrawler
Jamiet99uk (II) - ghug, BunnyGo
ghug (I) - JustAGuyNamedWill
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax
damo666 (I) - Jamiet99uk

FINAL VOTECOUNT:

Red Neurax (V) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare, damo666, DreamTrawler, ghug
ghug (II) - JustAGuyNamedWill, Jamiet99uk
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax
Jamiet99uk (I) - BunnyGo

======

DAY II. VOTECOUNT I.

BunnyGo (II) - Kakarroto, damo666
damo666 (II) - ghug (with emphasis), Jamiet99uk

DAY II. VOTECOUNT II.

damo666 (III) - ghug, Jamiet99uk, DreamTrawler
BunnyGo (II) - Kakarroto, damo666

DAY II. VOTECOUNT III.

damo666 (III) - ghug, Jamiet99uk, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
BunnyGo (I) - Kakarroto

JustAGuyNamedWill still must cast a vote

DAY II. VOTECOUNT IV.

damo666 (II) - ghug, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
JustAGuyNamedWill (II) - Jamiet99uk, Kakarroto

JustAGuyNamedWill still must place a vote

DAY II. VOTECOUNT V.

damo666 (II) - ghug, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
ghug (I) - Kakarroto

Unvoted: Jamiet99uk

JustAGuyNamedWill still must cast a vote

Jamiet99uk must vote again by EoD

DAY II. VOTECOUNT VI.

damo666 (III) - ghug, DreamTrawler, JustAGuyNamedWill
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
ghug (I) - Kakarroto

Unvoted: Jamiet99uk

Jamiet99uk must vote again by EoD

FINAL VOTECOUNT:

damo666 (IV) - DreamTrawler, JustAGuyNamedWill, Jamiet99uk, ghug
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
ghug (I) - Kakarroto

=====

DAY III. VOTECOUNT I.

BunnyGo (I) - DreamTrawler
JustAGuyNamedWill (I) - BunnyGo

JustAGuyNamedWill still must meet posting requirements

DAY III. VOTECOUNT II.

JustAGuyNamedWill (II) - BunnyGo, DreamTrawler

DAY III. VOTECOUNT III.

BunnyGo (III) - ghug, Kakarroto, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (I) - BunnyGo

JustAGuyNamedWill still must place a vote

FINAL VOTECOUNT:

BunnyGo (IV) - ghug, Kakarroto, DreamTrawler, JustAGuyNamedWill
Kakarroto (I) - BunnyGo

What did you learn from this?

well, if it's quoted, it's quite a long scroll

[Kakarroto]

Also, how he prodded you to maybe claim second mason. That looked very much like testing the waters if ghug maybe made a fake claim as VT and he wanted to check if ghug is for real, or maybe you were the real mason.

Like, if he did that to his mafia-partner, that would be much over the top, and could risk easily the death of you both. So I doubt that Bunny would be so thoughtless, when he was shading me for a long time.

This sounds like you’re trying to convince Dream that Dream is town

I had my doubts about that interaction because it was definitely plausible taht Bunny told Dream in mafia chat to stay alert for it, and that was a signal between partners

would such a signal even be needed? Like make a signal to not claim mason by making it look like pushing the partner to claim? Wouldn't it be just enough to say "don't claim" in mafia chat? And wasn't that all during night anyway where mafia can talk at night?

If there was a "change of plans, don't claim" signal for the day, it surly would've been some unrelated phrase, no? And if Bunny actually wanted his partner to claim, then I'm sure he wouldn't have done it in such an obvious way

[Kakarroto]

The one thing that gives me pause about Dream is how self aware he is about how he interacted with Bunny

Its a bit scummy because mafia would be hyper aware as how they come across

Thats really it tho

well, yeah, it's not impossible. But if Dream is mafia here, then he didn't even fool me, but also ghug, Jamie, damo. And yeah, there are some small things that could make you think that he is mafia, but compared to you they are minor.

And it has been said often enough, given enough opportunities over a game, everyone has some moments where it looks like they could be mafia. I'm not 100% sure, and if I'm wrong, I'm just wrong, but with all what has happened, it's just much more likely Dream is town. And I'm in good company with that thought.

But if you're really town, then Dream has played a phenomenal maf-game, and your absence was a crucial factor of us losing. Maybe it couldn't be helped that you weren't here for more, and maybe I need to reeducate myself about that stuff, but imagine in another world, we haven't had Red voted out Day one, but shifted onto Jamie in the last minute. Imagine ghug was nk'ed on night two, and the surviving people were Red, you and me. Or Red, you and Dream. Heck, lets pretend you are town and were removed, and the survivors were Red, Dream and me. Red would be an easy misvote there from all that I know.

And yeah, you have some bursts of activity, I give you that, but waiting 48 hours between your actions just doesn't give me confidence that you are town.

[Kakarroto]

Why I think Kak is mafia:

1. Reading over the D1 discussion with the knowledge that Bunny is Mafia, there is one person here who comes across as very suspicious and connected to Bunny: myself. I voted the same way as Bunny, had long interactions with him in the form of being introduced to the game, and was explicitly called out by Red Neurax as part of a potential scumpair with Bunny. Despite all this, Kak repeatedly is saying I don’t seem paired with Bunny. I’m sure if Will was the active one and I was the AFK one he would find a way to say the opposite to Will. He also probably picked me as a newer player is easier to influence.

2. Kak was the second one on the Red Neurax train and stayed there all of D1. Will was not on the Red wagon.

3. Ghug thought Bunny-Kak was the likeliest pair. I think the whole ploy with the poll and the fact that me and Will were so at each others throats and wanting the other to be voted off first is, as Ghug said, surprisingly townie.

4. Will’s whole thing with “it isn’t Bunny-Kak” yesterday is just an insanely bold play if he’s Mafia. He had no guarantee that Ghug would listen to him over me.

5. It would be kind of lame if it was Bunny-Will since they were mostly absent D2 and Will has had long absences in general.


In favor of Kak being town: willingness to vote for Bunny, calling Bunny the most likely Mafia D2, being present and therefore opening himself to scrutiny

#5 isn’t indicative of my alignment, just my schedule

Also on your townpoint for Kak, in D2 he did all this to Bunny when there wasn’t any real chance his voice could get Bunny killed

Its just distancing in this case

yes, point 5 is just a non-point, as said before. Weirder things have happened, and will happen.

also, not quite true, Bunny was tied for first wagon, if you look at the votecount. It's just when damo went off from Bunny onto me that I was alone on Bunny. I went onto you after that to add pressure so we might get more information from you, but then Bunny was never a choice. At least at the time, I missed that ghug went back on Bunny (saw it only on a reread), since I was much more concerned that damo was voted by Jamie and it looked like all were piling on damo (by the way why didn't you point out then that that looked like a total misvote and went off from damo? It's not different than what happened with Red, no?), and I didn't want to vote either him nor me, and ghug pinged me there. If I had just noticed that Bunny was on the table, I would've happily voted him there.

To be fair, Dream's vote on damo doesn't look too good when Bunny and damo were both on the table at 2 votes; but it was quite early on the day. Dream stayed there until the end and kept damo a viable wagon. Your vote on damo might've saved me, but we know, we can't be a maf team. Hm, let me check if that vote was before or after ghug voted Bunny ... ok it was post 657 on page 33, ghug voted Bunny on the end of page 34. So that's not a point for you being mafia.

but yeah, if I was mafia, it could be just distancing. It's just, I'm not

[Kakarroto]

“Will get online”

“Will please get online”

“Im here”

*One page of content*

Bruh

I woke up just a bit ago. Convince the world to have the same time zone then, and don't be away from the game for 48 hours

[Kakarroto]

The point I hold against Kak the most is his vote and then defense of the Red Neurax wagon

I dont think theres a reasonable justification for doing that; i’ve said it before and I’ve said it again, killing someone for something NAI is just helping the mafia

it's not the NAI stuff, it's the lurking stuff. It's absolutely reasonable to remove lurkers early.

a) there are many mafia that like hiding as lurkers

b) lurkers leave much less information in the game, as any alignment, making them get solved hard

c) lurkers are doing much less at actively trying to get information from others

if we give all lurkers a free pass, just because they've done it before, we easily create games with so low content, that it's just a coin-tossing guessing game. With mafia leaning back and doing jack nothing.

It's already so that mafia tries to remove the most towniest people, so town should try to remove the most sus people. And if there is a lot of unknown stuff from someone, that IS sus.

In this game, we have a little anomaly, by Dream surviving until the final 3; Dream who was townread by practically everyone. Why? Mafia did choose to nk dip on night one. I don't know why everyone acts as if that's nothing, this is really a surprising thing to happen. Why was dip chosen as nk target? He was a leading wagon during day one, and the wagon died really only in the endphase. Sure, ghug would've never voted his mason partner out, but still, mafia couldn't have known.

There was a time where Bunny and Dream both voted dip too, which is unlikely that a mafia team would do that. Will on the other hand towned dip very hard, or not, from his own words Will had 'mild' reads, but still he talked about dips townyness and not was not quiet about it. It could very well be that the decision to vote out dip was because of that, that Will believed that they would never be able to vote out dip with his read.

Anyway, that lead to Jamie and Dream being the highest townreads of the game, and Jamie getting nk'ed on night two. And on night three, after ghug confirmed he was the PR, he too was removed from the game.

And I know, I can be sus as town, Dream, but I saw you as very towny for a long time, and there was nearly not enough to shake me up to heavily doubt that read. It's rare that I have so few doubts, but I'm fairly confident in you being town. But you surviving until now makes perfect sense, and other towns are having my back with their reads too. Nothing I've seen from Will, at least until now, makes me feel that I'm wrong.

Oh, and Will, if we don't talk of lurking and only stuff that's NAI, like you giving new players a pass for a day or two, then yeah, that stuff is stupid voting people over. But lurking is just so bad for town in general, that even if it is NAI, it should be stomped out.

[Kakarroto]

The point I hold against Kak the most is his vote and then defense of the Red Neurax wagon

I dont think theres a reasonable justification for doing that; i’ve said it before and I’ve said it again, killing someone for something NAI is just helping the mafia

I think this is bad but I also think a lot of people made bad vote choices Day 1. Nevertheless it’s not a good look that Kak was second on the wagon

I think you should reread the game again, that's at least the second factual mistake you are making, and I think it's also the second time where you state that I was second on the Red wagon?

Since page 4, I was first on the wagon and leader until the end. Bunny hopped off from it, making a show out of it, probably because he knew how it would look like when Red turned town. Will was there congratulating him for seeing this 'red was town' and chastised everyone else.

here the call out where he says that Red was town

DAY I. VOTECOUNT VIII.

Red Neurax (V) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare, damo666, BunnyGo, DreamTrawler
Jamiet99uk (I) - ghug
ghug (I) - JustAGuyNamedWill
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax
damo666 (I) - Jamiet99uk

Under 10 minutes until EoD

This just doesn’t sit right with me

5-1-1-1-1 wagons indicate a townie being wagoned

Idk why people didnt pick up that red was town here

and here, just afterwards, the reaction towards Bunny

woah...the red wagon took off ##vote jamie don't like that movement

+town point for bunny

Will, what about damo?

[Kakarroto]

Will, this was the situation, just before Jamie voted damo.

DAY II. VOTECOUNT VI.

damo666 (III) - ghug, DreamTrawler, JustAGuyNamedWill
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
ghug (I) - Kakarroto

Unvoted: Jamiet99uk

Jamiet99uk must vote again by EoD

Under an hour left in the day

where was your outcry that damo was piled onto? Where was your chastising afterwards that a town was misvoted? Damo easily could've been the second mason here, with how he behaved, why did you react to both situation so completely different?

Was it because you were part if it?

[Kakarroto]

The one thing that gives me pause about Dream is how self aware he is about how he interacted with Bunny

Its a bit scummy because mafia would be hyper aware as how they come across

Thats really it tho

True, but in my case it’s my only angle. Like at this point I’m suspicious of anyone who is ruling me out.

then you shouldn't have been so towny. And before you ask "why are you alive", it's because mafia nk'ed dip at day one, and afterwards had others that were as towny, if not more towny, than you. Maybe you could've gotten nk'ed night two, but my guess is that they saw Jamie as the bigger threat.

[Kakarroto]

The point I hold against Kak the most is his vote and then defense of the Red Neurax wagon

I dont think theres a reasonable justification for doing that; i’ve said it before and I’ve said it again, killing someone for something NAI is just helping the mafia

I think this is bad but I also think a lot of people made bad vote choices Day 1. Nevertheless it’s not a good look that Kak was second on the wagon

Its misguided townies who start bad wgaons. Its opportunistic mafia who perpetuate the bad wagons

explain you voting the damo wagon then, and keep silent about it afterwards, not calling out how everyone piled onto him like Red

[Kakarroto]

because you don't look paired with Bunny. I know I'm town, so that just leaves Will. And while Will doesn't look too strong as if he is mafia in isolation, you look less as if you were mafia in isolation, too.

Also, Will himself has pointed out, that Bunny doesn't look like he's connected to me. Will had these whole townreads all the game long (which he later said some were just mild), chastised people for voting Red who was in his mind practically confirmed town, at least that's how he presented it, and even when he misses the game for long times, he acts as if he knows everything.

This could just be confident town, sure, but those are also signs that he is mafia with too much information. That and the nerve of not even being here when our town clear was still alive, trying to get behind things, is like mega-un-solvey. Sure, life happens, but he is missing now, what, like 48 hours without having a post? It's as if he tries to smother the game by taking it hostage, getting the life out of it.

So, why is Will town again for you?

Will, any response? I understand life and scheduling get in the way but Kak has voted you over this.

Its extremely unfair and dangerously misconstrued to tell me that due to factors out of my control I am killing the game. I have participated when I could, and have posted a LOT when I can

Also @Kak I want you to explain why you think all my townreads are strong. Its very common practice for people to just be like ‘x is town’, without having a strong case or reason behind it

And yes, Bunny didn’t look paired to Kak. I found his responses to Kak towny. Thats why I found you, Dream, to be scummy. But I was wrong, and Bunny was mafia. So i’m reconsidering

maybe I'm a bit too much about it all, but you missed the time to talk to our townclear before the nk. It also feels like you choose to be absent when people are here and active when you are alone. I know I shouldn't let it influence me, but it feels rude and unhelpful not checking in at least once a day.

It's also something mafia can use, to get pressure off of themselves, and while I try to not let it make me get to me, it's just something that bothers me.

as for your "town" thing, usually it's 'towny' and 'townish' or 'townlean'; calling someone strict up town is a very high placement as far as I know. I haven't played here for a bit though, so the lingua could've changed in that time?

[Kakarroto]

The one thing that gives me pause about Dream is how self aware he is about how he interacted with Bunny

Its a bit scummy because mafia would be hyper aware as how they come across

Thats really it tho

True, but in my case it’s my only angle. Like at this point I’m suspicious of anyone who is ruling me out.

I mean, thats fair. I think you underestimate how towny your EOD was last day phase with the hindsight bunny is mafia, but i digress

Also wdym your only angle? Like to clear yourself?

I mean atp if you’re mafia you just win. you vote me and kak does too, ezpz. Its why I’m not sure you’re mafia, despite my doubts

I'm already voting you.

And if both you and Dream vote me, mafia wins. I'm pretty sure you know that already, but if you are town, then Dream is mafia.

You said yourself that his EoD was very towny. Jamie, ghug, damo, all stated Dream is town. I'm pretty sure that Dream is town.

So what makes you town then? How should I, a vanilla townie, know that you are town and should vote for Dream the mafia? How should I believe you are town, when you treat Red and damo differently, despite it being the same situation, just with different actors? How should I believe you, when you aren't there to talk to ghug in his last hours, trying to find out who is the real mafia? How should I believe you, Will-tonius?

[Kakarroto]

That fake endvote from kak is so strange

what is so strange? Explain it in more details. And please leave "interesting" and "fascinating" out of it.

Also; answer me this: what does it say about me when I do strange or weird things?

[Kakarroto]

Also, I hope to read from you sooner than in the last minutes of the day.

We have only ... about ten hours and thirty minutes left, I think? Or is my sense of time too distorted?

Anyway, I hope to read more when I come back.

[DreamTrawler]

The one thing that gives me pause about Dream is how self aware he is about how he interacted with Bunny

Its a bit scummy because mafia would be hyper aware as how they come across

Thats really it tho

True, but in my case it’s my only angle. Like at this point I’m suspicious of anyone who is ruling me out.

I mean, thats fair. I think you underestimate how towny your EOD was last day phase with the hindsight bunny is mafia, but i digress

Also wdym your only angle? Like to clear yourself?

I mean atp if you’re mafia you just win. you vote me and kak does too, ezpz. Its why I’m not sure you’re mafia, despite my doubts

My only angle to figure out which one of you it is is how you act towards me. Or at least that's what it feels like. But you both are saying pretty similar things.

This is also why I wanted to wait for all three of us to be online. As it stands Kak is making pretty good points against you. But I was biased against Kak earlier. But I can't just keep saying it's Kak because then all you need to do is show up briefly and agree.

[Kakarroto]

Back home early, however need to eat and do some other things. I'll have an eye on here so I hope I don't miss anything. So shoot me any question (relevant to the game of course) you want me answered.

[DreamTrawler]

I'm looking at Day 3 again.

So - Bunny opens by pointing connections between various players. Then after questioning me, and trying to bait me into claiming Mason, he says he thinks it's Kak-Will. Has a back and forth with Kak, votes Will with 9 hours left. After Ghug polls us, switches to me/Will, keeping it on Will until Ghug reveals his ploy. Then last minute votes Kak, saying it's Kak/Will.

Will shows up around then and looks over posts, says he thinks it's not Bunny/Kak or Kak/me, leaving me/Bunny. This starts a whole back and forth with me where I say he's implicating himself. Stays on Dream/Bunny but doesn't vote till Ghug does, voting for Bunny.

Kak opens saying it's Bunny-Will and stays there the whole day. Very consistent. Puts Bunny as his most likely Mafia candidate. Is upset with Bunny for calling my interaction with him as coaching, has a back and forth and Ghug asks if it's scum theater. Votes Bunny around when Ghug does.

[DreamTrawler]

Both of you had Bunny as one of your prime suspects since when you first showed up on Day 3. That makes this pretty hard.

[DreamTrawler]

The question is, when Bunny was saying it was Kak-Will, who was he trying to protect out of the two? He starts on Will but goes to Kak just before end of day.

[DreamTrawler]

It seems like a lot of people have put Bunny as their second or third most suspected, but no one has voted Bunny.

Not encouraging it, just an observation.

Me, being first on the Bunny wagon, only damo joining, but leaving after a while

m1035 - am I a joke to you.png

What do we think of this post?

This is interesting, not only voting Bunny but trying to get others to join.