M1035 - Julius Caesar Mafia - Game Thread

[DreamTrawler]

Bunny's vote history, for our reading pleasure:

D1: Dip->Jamie->Red->Jamie

D2: Kak

D3: Will->Kak

Here's mine:

D1: Dip->Jamie->Red

D2: damo

D3: Bunny->Will->Bunny

Now Kakarroto:

D1: Red

D2: Bunny->Will->ghug

D3: Bunny

[DreamTrawler]

Bunny's vote history, for our reading pleasure:

D1: Dip->Jamie->Red->Jamie

D2: Kak

D3: Will->Kak

Here's mine:

D1: Dip->Jamie->Red

D2: damo

D3: Bunny->Will->Bunny

Now Kakarroto:

D1: Red

D2: Bunny->Will->ghug

D3: Bunny

And finally Will:

D1: ghug

D2: damo

D3: Bunny

[DreamTrawler]

Presented without comment, just wanted it all in one place.

[Kakarroto]

Here are the accumulated VC's, coloured in in their flips (normally people do them earlier, especially Jamie, but until now no one seemed to have bothered to do them)

DAY I. VOTECOUNT I.

Kakarroto (II) - Jamiet99uk, damo666
BunnyGo (I) - DiplomacyandWarfare
DiplomacyandWarfare (I) - ghug

DAY I. VOTECOUNT II.

DiplomacyandWarfare (II) - ghug, BunnyGo
Kakarroto (I) - damo666
BunnyGo (I) - DiplomacyandWarfare
DreamTrawler (I) - Jamiet99uk
Red Neurax (I) - Kakarroto

DAY I. VOTECOUNT III.

DiplomacyandWarfare (III) - ghug, BunnyGo, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (I) - damo666
BunnyGo (I) - DiplomacyandWarfare
Red Neurax (I) - Kakarroto

Unvoted: Jamiet99uk

DAY I. VOTECOUNT IV.

Red Neurax (II) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare
DiplomacyandWarfare (II) - BunnyGo, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (I) - damo666
damo666 (I) - ghug
ghug (I) - JustAGuyNamedWill

Unvoted: Jamiet99uk

DAY I. VOTECOUNT V.

DiplomacyandWarfare (III) - BunnyGo, DreamTrawler, damo666
Red Neurax (II) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare
ghug (II) - JustAGuyNamedWill, Jamiet99uk
damo666 (I) - ghug

Red Neurax still must place a vote

DAY I. VOTECOUNT VI.

DiplomacyandWarfare (II) - DreamTrawler, damo666
Red Neurax (II) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare
ghug (II) - JustAGuyNamedWill, Jamiet99uk
Jamiet99uk (II) - ghug, BunnyGo
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax

DAY I. VOTECOUNT VII

Red Neurax (III) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare, damo666
ghug (II) - JustAGuyNamedWill, Jamiet99uk
Jamiet99uk (II) - ghug, BunnyGo
DiplomacyandWarfare (I) - DreamTrawler
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax

DAY I. VOTECOUNT VIII.

Red Neurax (V) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare, damo666, BunnyGo, DreamTrawler
Jamiet99uk (I) - ghug
ghug (I) - JustAGuyNamedWill
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax
damo666 (I) - Jamiet99uk

DAY I. VOTECOUNT IX.

Red Neurax (IV) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare, damo666, DreamTrawler
Jamiet99uk (II) - ghug, BunnyGo
ghug (I) - JustAGuyNamedWill
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax
damo666 (I) - Jamiet99uk

FINAL VOTECOUNT:

Red Neurax (V) - Kakarroto, DiplomacyandWarfare, damo666, DreamTrawler, ghug
ghug (II) - JustAGuyNamedWill, Jamiet99uk
BunnyGo (I) - Red Neurax
Jamiet99uk (I) - BunnyGo

======

DAY II. VOTECOUNT I.

BunnyGo (II) - Kakarroto, damo666
damo666 (II) - ghug (with emphasis), Jamiet99uk

DAY II. VOTECOUNT II.

damo666 (III) - ghug, Jamiet99uk, DreamTrawler
BunnyGo (II) - Kakarroto, damo666

DAY II. VOTECOUNT III.

damo666 (III) - ghug, Jamiet99uk, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
BunnyGo (I) - Kakarroto

JustAGuyNamedWill still must cast a vote

DAY II. VOTECOUNT IV.

damo666 (II) - ghug, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
JustAGuyNamedWill (II) - Jamiet99uk, Kakarroto

JustAGuyNamedWill still must place a vote

DAY II. VOTECOUNT V.

damo666 (II) - ghug, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
ghug (I) - Kakarroto

Unvoted: Jamiet99uk

JustAGuyNamedWill still must cast a vote

Jamiet99uk must vote again by EoD

DAY II. VOTECOUNT VI.

damo666 (III) - ghug, DreamTrawler, JustAGuyNamedWill
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
ghug (I) - Kakarroto

Unvoted: Jamiet99uk

Jamiet99uk must vote again by EoD

FINAL VOTECOUNT:

damo666 (IV) - DreamTrawler, JustAGuyNamedWill, Jamiet99uk, ghug
Kakarroto (II) - BunnyGo, damo666
ghug (I) - Kakarroto

=====

DAY III. VOTECOUNT I.

BunnyGo (I) - DreamTrawler
JustAGuyNamedWill (I) - BunnyGo

JustAGuyNamedWill still must meet posting requirements

DAY III. VOTECOUNT II.

JustAGuyNamedWill (II) - BunnyGo, DreamTrawler

DAY III. VOTECOUNT III.

BunnyGo (III) - ghug, Kakarroto, DreamTrawler
Kakarroto (I) - BunnyGo

JustAGuyNamedWill still must place a vote

FINAL VOTECOUNT:

BunnyGo (IV) - ghug, Kakarroto, DreamTrawler, JustAGuyNamedWill
Kakarroto (I) - BunnyGo

[Kakarroto]

chirp

[DreamTrawler]

Going to sleep, but Senator Will, please be in attendance tomorrow.

[DreamTrawler]

*cricketus romanus*

[Kakarroto]

yeah, not much happened.

Why do you think Will is town again?

[DreamTrawler]

yeah, not much happened.

Why do you think Will is town again?

I don't know for sure but I have some strong hunches. I want to have him here to question.

Why do you think Will is Mafia again?

[Kakarroto]

yeah, not much happened.

Why do you think Will is town again?

I don't know for sure but I have some strong hunches. I want to have him here to question.

Why do you think Will is Mafia again?

because you don't look paired with Bunny. I know I'm town, so that just leaves Will. And while Will doesn't look too strong as if he is mafia in isolation, you look less as if you were mafia in isolation, too.

Also, Will himself has pointed out, that Bunny doesn't look like he's connected to me. Will had these whole townreads all the game long (which he later said some were just mild), chastised people for voting Red who was in his mind practically confirmed town, at least that's how he presented it, and even when he misses the game for long times, he acts as if he knows everything.

This could just be confident town, sure, but those are also signs that he is mafia with too much information. That and the nerve of not even being here when our town clear was still alive, trying to get behind things, is like mega-un-solvey. Sure, life happens, but he is missing now, what, like 48 hours without having a post? It's as if he tries to smother the game by taking it hostage, getting the life out of it.

So, why is Will town again for you?

[DreamTrawler]

yeah, not much happened.

Why do you think Will is town again?

I don't know for sure but I have some strong hunches. I want to have him here to question.

Why do you think Will is Mafia again?

because you don't look paired with Bunny.

Probably foolhardy of me to do this at this stage, but I have to ask - why? You've said this before but it seems kind of vibes-based. Red Neurax was saying he suspected a Bunny-Dream pair as early as D1.

As for the rest of what you said - I do think it is concerning that Will hasn't checked in on the game even once since the daykill. It has slowed any momentum we have.

And I do have reasons why I think Will is town, I just don't think they're worth sharing with just you, as it would just be giving you time to come up with a rebuttal. I would like us to all be active at the same time so we can discuss more naturally and less rehearsed.

[Kakarroto]

I don't know for sure but I have some strong hunches. I want to have him here to question.

Why do you think Will is Mafia again?

because you don't look paired with Bunny.

Probably foolhardy of me to do this at this stage, but I have to ask - why? You've said this before but it seems kind of vibes-based. Red Neurax was saying he suspected a Bunny-Dream pair as early as D1.

As for the rest of what you said - I do think it is concerning that Will hasn't checked in on the game even once since the daykill. It has slowed any momentum we have.

And I do have reasons why I think Will is town, I just don't think they're worth sharing with just you, as it would just be giving you time to come up with a rebuttal. I would like us to all be active at the same time so we can discuss more naturally and less rehearsed.

if someone can come up with a rebuttal, maybe it's not as good of a reason that you think? If just a little time is enough to make the argument go away, it's not a good argument, right?

But fine, lets do it your way. However, if you want to discuss with me more naturally, we should switch to german. Then I won't need to translate some of my thought concepts. So whatever you are picking up might just be me fumbling to find the perfect translation in my head.

And I can understand the suspicion of Red, when it comes to Day one; Bunny and you on page 5 look quite sus. However, how he dealt with you on Day three wasn't like with a partner, but a near townclear. Trying to get into your good page, helping you to get to the 'correct' choice, it's like he wants you to think a certain way. Like, he knew he couldn't get rid of both ghug and you at the same time, so he did his darnest to not spook you, and to get a misvote. And if that's not possible, to set the stage for the final three.

That's just not how he spoke to Will.

[DreamTrawler]

Bunny was at first arguing for it being Dream/Will until ghug pulled his bluff. He only started appealing to me once everyone started voting him.

But alright, I won't keep playing coy. I'll post my reasoning in a second.

[Kakarroto]

Also, how he prodded you to maybe claim second mason. That looked very much like testing the waters if ghug maybe made a fake claim as VT and he wanted to check if ghug is for real, or maybe you were the real mason.

Like, if he did that to his mafia-partner, that would be much over the top, and could risk easily the death of you both. So I doubt that Bunny would be so thoughtless, when he was shading me for a long time.

[DreamTrawler]

Also, how he prodded you to maybe claim second mason. That looked very much like testing the waters if ghug maybe made a fake claim as VT and he wanted to check if ghug is for real, or maybe you were the real mason.

Like, if he did that to his mafia-partner, that would be much over the top, and could risk easily the death of you both. So I doubt that Bunny would be so thoughtless, when he was shading me for a long time.

But if we were both Mafia, this could have been a planned interaction beforehand.

[DreamTrawler]

Why I think Kak is mafia:

1. Reading over the D1 discussion with the knowledge that Bunny is Mafia, there is one person here who comes across as very suspicious and connected to Bunny: myself. I voted the same way as Bunny, had long interactions with him in the form of being introduced to the game, and was explicitly called out by Red Neurax as part of a potential scumpair with Bunny. Despite all this, Kak repeatedly is saying I don’t seem paired with Bunny. I’m sure if Will was the active one and I was the AFK one he would find a way to say the opposite to Will. He also probably picked me as a newer player is easier to influence.

2. Kak was the second one on the Red Neurax train and stayed there all of D1. Will was not on the Red wagon.

3. Ghug thought Bunny-Kak was the likeliest pair. I think the whole ploy with the poll and the fact that me and Will were so at each others throats and wanting the other to be voted off first is, as Ghug said, surprisingly townie.

4. Will’s whole thing with “it isn’t Bunny-Kak” yesterday is just an insanely bold play if he’s Mafia. He had no guarantee that Ghug would listen to him over me.

5. It would be kind of lame if it was Bunny-Will since they were mostly absent D2 and Will has had long absences in general.


In favor of Kak being town: willingness to vote for Bunny, calling Bunny the most likely Mafia D2, being present and therefore opening himself to scrutiny

[Kakarroto]

Also, how he prodded you to maybe claim second mason. That looked very much like testing the waters if ghug maybe made a fake claim as VT and he wanted to check if ghug is for real, or maybe you were the real mason.

Like, if he did that to his mafia-partner, that would be much over the top, and could risk easily the death of you both. So I doubt that Bunny would be so thoughtless, when he was shading me for a long time.

But if we were both Mafia, this could have been a planned interaction beforehand.

well, yeah, but it usually isn't. At least in our community, there aren't big plans and rehearsals and all that stuff, mostly it's talking about who to vote, who is PR, talking about planned bussing and making jokes. Maybe some code phrases when someone has a role that is deductive, like a PR scan (like 'if I start the day with an "I", XYZ is PR, but if I start with "When" they are vanilla).

So the probability is just so low.

And there are so many things that speak for you being town, even when I have a few doubts, that Will can't be anything but mafia here.

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

I am at the gym but will get to it momentarily

[Kakarroto]

Why I think Kak is mafia:

1. Reading over the D1 discussion with the knowledge that Bunny is Mafia, there is one person here who comes across as very suspicious and connected to Bunny: myself. I voted the same way as Bunny, had long interactions with him in the form of being introduced to the game, and was explicitly called out by Red Neurax as part of a potential scumpair with Bunny. Despite all this, Kak repeatedly is saying I don’t seem paired with Bunny. I’m sure if Will was the active one and I was the AFK one he would find a way to say the opposite to Will. He also probably picked me as a newer player is easier to influence.

2. Kak was the second one on the Red Neurax train and stayed there all of D1. Will was not on the Red wagon.

3. Ghug thought Bunny-Kak was the likeliest pair. I think the whole ploy with the poll and the fact that me and Will were so at each others throats and wanting the other to be voted off first is, as Ghug said, surprisingly townie.

4. Will’s whole thing with “it isn’t Bunny-Kak” yesterday is just an insanely bold play if he’s Mafia. He had no guarantee that Ghug would listen to him over me.

5. It would be kind of lame if it was Bunny-Will since they were mostly absent D2 and Will has had long absences in general.


In favor of Kak being town: willingness to vote for Bunny, calling Bunny the most likely Mafia D2, being present and therefore opening himself to scrutiny

To 1. Yeah, there is some sus communication Day One, as I said before, between Bunny and you. But Bunny is often shading others when he is mafia, so he could've done all that just in an effort to bind you to himself. It's much easier to see who he wants to convince than what he wants others to be convinced of.

To 2. yeah, and it was still not a too bad vote. Didn't get a mason, removed a low information target and got a strong reaction of mafia out of it. So I'd call it a win

To 3. ghug very often suspects me. I don't know his odds, but it feels he is more often wrong than right.

To 4. yeah, sure, could be seen as bold. Will can be quite bold. It could also been something not thought through. Maybe he saw that I was leaning town on him, and thought he could make me vote you out if it comes to that?

To 5. yeah, it would be lame. But I had my fair share of 'being lame' as mafia. So while the other points you've presented I do think are valid (although wrong) (and maybe 3 isn't a too good one), this point here is really just a non-thing.

But yeah, definitely ditch that fifth point. It has nothing to say of alignment. If anything, it would be a harsh maf point because there is a meta of lurking as mafia here. So it's definitely in the realm of possibilities.

But yeah, that's your perspective about me. But what about the town points for Will?

[Kakarroto]

I am at the gym but will get to it momentarily

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