M1035 - Julius Caesar Mafia - Game Thread

[DreamTrawler]

I also want the input of people on my thoughts of the chance that Will&Bunny might be our mafia team, especially Jamie, damo and ghug.

Will was very protective of some people, and easily gave out townreads. Jamie, Red and dip if I remember correctly. Oh and Dream I think. Two of them already flipped correct.

Can you revisit their (Bunny&Will) discussion and give me a response how you think about that possible pairing? Am I just seeing things or did I actually notice a true connection?

Can you explain Bunny

Who would Bunny’s other partner be if I flip town

Bunny and damo comes to mind, though they are now voting both me, so that detracts from that. Also Jamie could be fooling me again and it's Bunny and Jamie, but then again, I'm not sure that it's Bunny.

But Bunny's sudden vanish after he came back for a second, voted me and finished his post-limit (which surprised me when our GM announced it so I double checked and he actually posted enough) has me sussing him. Like, if that doesn't make you wonder, what will?

Also - wouldn't Bunny and damo both voting for you be reason to add suspicion? Or do you mean they would be more eager to vote Will if they were mafia?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

In that regard, Will, you did gave out some easy townreads. How did you get to them. You said for example on page 7 that Jamie is town, with much conviction. How can you be sure of that? Jamie is great at hiding his alignment when he is mafia.

You explained your dip read and Dream, so I wont question you about them, but what about Red? When did you read Red as town? How were you that sure?

I dont think I had conviction in my townreads. It was mild.

Yes, I can never be sure because I dont know his alignment. I just made an inference

Red was town because he was being wagoned for NAI stuff. That is *the* telltale sign of a town hang

Red being killed so that ‘game is better bc one less lurker’ is absolutely shitty logic because we only have 2 miskills and that was one of them

"mild"?

I’m so glad I have not participated in the Roman flavor stuff

Jamie town

1. that doesn't look like 'mild' to me. You straight up declared that Jamie is town.

2. and no, the less lurker in a game, the more information there is from every other participant. That is flawless logic, and NOT shitty.

3. Especially since there are enough people that potentially hide behind lurking when they are mafia.

1. It is mild. Sorry for misunderstanding. I just clal ppl town if my gut says so. I’ve done it in other town games of mine if you’re wondering if its AI

2. I have a question: do you think killing a lurker was better than killing mafia in that situation?

3. Does red hide behind lurking as mafia? Or does he just lurk all the time. He lurks all the time

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

town

Why?

Wait

Did Damo actually declare he townread me for posting :tumbleweed: ...?

It was a towny tumbleweed

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

Also, I have been unable to access the bot - no matter what browser I paste the link into it tells me "Not a secure connection" or "this site may be impersonating ... and trying to steal your information." Is there any other way I can access it?

It does that, you just have to accept the risk

But theres been a dif problem where I can’t access the bot at all

[Kakarroto]

Killing red for lurking again was dumb

Like i get killing lurkers in a larger game but we only have 2 miskills total

For the second game in a row we’ve killed someone for something that was NAI and surprise surprise it was a townie

*well whoop dee fucking doo, Red should've played the game then. Doing bare nothing is just shite, and it needs to be carved out and stomped on and burned as fast and as often as we can.*

And sorry if you are offended by that Red, that is not what I want, but I will not stop going for lurkers, because it's just so easy for mafia to hide in that.

1. Also Will, you could've said so earlier than, what, two seconds before phase change and fought it? But you never did.

You posted Red as third-last in your 'towny' readlist, and just popped in and suddenly sprouted your 'knowledge' before anyone could respond to that. When did that shift from "maf-PoE" to "town" for Red happen? 2. Because he lurked more? Nah Will, you look very sus with that, 3. and you failed to explain and answer the questions of why you read most of the people you town read.

1. Yes it was dumb, but Red didnt become a truly runaway wagon until last minute. And I was offline until then, so i couldnt have. But stuff like *your first paragraph* is reason to believe it wouldn’t have mattered anyway because people want to kill lurkers for lurking

2. No. Because he was wagoned for lurking. Lurking itself is NAI and pretty annoying. Being wagoned for lurking as a serial lurker as both alignments *is* towny, esp when they’re a runaway wagon

3. I must have not gotten to that, I’m still catching up. If you could link the questions you have, that would be helpful

if there was any dumbness involved, then it's not stopping lurking, especially as town.

I didn't really knew Red was that famous for lurking. Nevertheless, getting rid of a weak contributor to the game, even if town, is helpful.

as for links, they are in this thread: https://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5976

[Kakarroto]

Can you explain Bunny

Who would Bunny’s other partner be if I flip town

Bunny and damo comes to mind, though they are now voting both me, so that detracts from that. Also Jamie could be fooling me again and it's Bunny and Jamie, but then again, I'm not sure that it's Bunny.

But Bunny's sudden vanish after he came back for a second, voted me and finished his post-limit (which surprised me when our GM announced it so I double checked and he actually posted enough) has me sussing him. Like, if that doesn't make you wonder, what will?

Also - wouldn't Bunny and damo both voting for you be reason to add suspicion? Or do you mean they would be more eager to vote Will if they were mafia?

well, mafia wouldn't really want to face off like that, no? Like people would see that and think they are connected.

I mean damo and Bunny might be experienced enough that they vote BECAUSE of that, thinking that they wouldn't do that if they are mafia, but that just leads to wifom

[DreamTrawler]

I also want the input of people on my thoughts of the chance that Will&Bunny might be our mafia team, especially Jamie, damo and ghug.

Will was very protective of some people, and easily gave out townreads. Jamie, Red and dip if I remember correctly. Oh and Dream I think. Two of them already flipped correct.

Can you revisit their (Bunny&Will) discussion and give me a response how you think about that possible pairing? Am I just seeing things or did I actually notice a true connection?

Btw - why would the Mafia give out accurate townreads?

[ghug]

Just saw the last GM post again, Bunny, Will and Dream haven't met their 10-relevant-post limit yet. I guess Dream should be fine with a little bit more involvement, but Bunny and Will might just get replaced or modkilled.

If they are both town, we insta lose in the worst case, I really don't want that

And if they are really mafia (or one of them is) they should at least get their stuff together so we can have a good game.

The post minimum doesn't apply if the phase is hammered.

Could scum!damo be trying to protect his scum partner from being modkilled?

I don't and wouldn't play like that. It's tantamount to cheating.

However gonna ##unend.

Might be around EOD but if so I may be incoherent!

Don't kill me, I'm town.

I very much doubt all the Dip voters we're town which means at least one scum in {bunny, ghug, Dream} perhaps the latter is a dark horse.

This is scum damo logic.

[ghug]

Sorry about that. Will catch up over the next few hours. Stomach bugs ****.

Stomach bugs fuck?

[ghug]

Well, I'm gonna have a look at it.

For now, in honour of our beloved Brutus Cinna, ##vote BunnyGo

Worst start to day ever. I hope I see someone call you on it. Although if nobody does that’s even more sus.

Explain?

[Kakarroto]

I dont think I had conviction in my townreads. It was mild.

Yes, I can never be sure because I dont know his alignment. I just made an inference

Red was town because he was being wagoned for NAI stuff. That is *the* telltale sign of a town hang

Red being killed so that ‘game is better bc one less lurker’ is absolutely shitty logic because we only have 2 miskills and that was one of them

"mild"?

I’m so glad I have not participated in the Roman flavor stuff

Jamie town

1. that doesn't look like 'mild' to me. You straight up declared that Jamie is town.

2. and no, the less lurker in a game, the more information there is from every other participant. That is flawless logic, and NOT shitty.

3. Especially since there are enough people that potentially hide behind lurking when they are mafia.

1. It is mild. Sorry for misunderstanding. I just clal ppl town if my gut says so. I’ve done it in other town games of mine if you’re wondering if its AI

2. I have a question: do you think killing a lurker was better than killing mafia in that situation?

3. Does red hide behind lurking as mafia? Or does he just lurk all the time. He lurks all the time

ok then, it had, at least for me, a very big impression. Please make that clearer for the future. Don't call them town, call them towny or townish. Or add that it's just a vibe. At least for me it would be much clearer.

theoretically, a mafia, that way we might see a connection to other mafiosi. HOWEVER; we had a few games where we voted out a mafia day one, and then LOST as town BECAUSE of it. It's now a running joke in our community. Like, a good luck charm. I believe, however, that is, because the mafia has more time, and it creates more information for town. So maybe, maybe, it's actually not so good to vote out mafia on day one? A crazy thought though, and we can't just sit back and just villi nilli do that, we always need to strive to vote mafia, or else it wont work.

alright, imagine a world where Red was still in the game, and we lost one more town. Lets say, one of you, Jamie, or me, whoever you want to believe is town. What would Red have done for town to make us win? How could anyone be sure that Red is town at that point? That's just an easy candidate to lose at the final 5, or final 3

[Kakarroto]

I also want the input of people on my thoughts of the chance that Will&Bunny might be our mafia team, especially Jamie, damo and ghug.

Will was very protective of some people, and easily gave out townreads. Jamie, Red and dip if I remember correctly. Oh and Dream I think. Two of them already flipped correct.

Can you revisit their (Bunny&Will) discussion and give me a response how you think about that possible pairing? Am I just seeing things or did I actually notice a true connection?

Btw - why would the Mafia give out accurate townreads?

well, there are more town in game than mafia. There are also connections that people can draw from mafia giving out reads, at least after they have flipped. If one mafia puts all their maf-buddies as their top, and all the townies into the null/maf reads, they will probably cause a surprise, which might get them flipped. If people then look at those connections, the whole team is caught.

So mafia needs to be truthful about the alignment of at least some people. The crux behind is, that mafia KNOWS they are town, so then they have to create reasons of why they 'think' they are town. Which could lead them to be caught, if done wrong.

THAT'S why I was so suspicious of Will, with how he stated the read of Jamie, or why Red suddenly went from his third-worst to a 'pretty towny' read. I have to think now, if I actually believe the reason he stated. And I think he hasn't really explained how the transition for Red worked.

But that's also why I asked you, how you feel that everyone townreads you; if any explanation maybe felt phony to you, or fabricated. Any new thoughts on that maybe?

[ghug]

Ok I kind of had a thought

I assumed Dip was not the mason because his alleged codes were so brazen and obvious I felt he was trying to draw the NK

I dont think its a real code at all. The chance that the mason is the first and *only* person to crack it just isn’t very likely, and Dip knows that

My theory is Dip tried to make it appear he was trying to draw the NK, while actually *being* the PR

This is kinda where I am too. He did a bunch of coded bullshit last game and he was scum. I think it's just how he plays. Maybe this points to people who've played with him less, but I don't really want to go there.

[BunnyGo]

my current thoughts about the likelyhood of everyone being mafia (from towniest to mafiaest):

Dream
Jamie
ghug
damo
Will
Bunny

I think Dream is most likely town. If he fools me here, that's on me (and he should have a bright future if he continues to play).

I'm pretty sure Jamie is town. I still think there are chances he is mafia because he is just so good at it, but I also think, if that's the case, we will catch Jamie only if we get the other mafia first. If damo is mafia, Jamie is probably towncleared.

I am a bit more sus of damo than of ghug, though only a little. Maybe it's a >/= thing, but the code thing just makes damo more sus to me. Both seem a bit like holding back a bit, not saying much what they think, or at least don't go much into detail. Not necessarily mafia, I do not like it however.

Will putting his easy town reads out, while not really defending one who is on the block, the other turning up dead on the next morning, is striking. Now Will isn't here, even when he said he would catch up soon.

Bunny is also missing, declaring an illness. Hope you get better soon, but at this point you might get modkilled, so if you are town, just sub out. Dip was very sus on Bunny, and while I liked his posts at the time, on reread they get worse. I can easily see a world where maf-Bunny votes dip a long time, then changes, never switching back to dip, and then kills dip at night. Well it could be just coincidence, but I think maf-Bunny would do stuff like that. Also no drunk-Bunny at night.

Subbing out as town is a weird recommendation.

[BunnyGo]

Now this is the part where you all show up destroy my posts and explain where I'm wrong.

I’m getting there…

[ghug]

Also, I have been unable to access the bot - no matter what browser I paste the link into it tells me "Not a secure connection" or "this site may be impersonating ... and trying to steal your information." Is there any other way I can access it?

You have to click through to advanced settings and allow it. Its certificates are misconfigured.

[Kakarroto]

my current thoughts about the likelyhood of everyone being mafia (from towniest to mafiaest):

Dream
Jamie
ghug
damo
Will
Bunny

I think Dream is most likely town. If he fools me here, that's on me (and he should have a bright future if he continues to play).

I'm pretty sure Jamie is town. I still think there are chances he is mafia because he is just so good at it, but I also think, if that's the case, we will catch Jamie only if we get the other mafia first. If damo is mafia, Jamie is probably towncleared.

I am a bit more sus of damo than of ghug, though only a little. Maybe it's a >/= thing, but the code thing just makes damo more sus to me. Both seem a bit like holding back a bit, not saying much what they think, or at least don't go much into detail. Not necessarily mafia, I do not like it however.

Will putting his easy town reads out, while not really defending one who is on the block, the other turning up dead on the next morning, is striking. Now Will isn't here, even when he said he would catch up soon.

Bunny is also missing, declaring an illness. Hope you get better soon, but at this point you might get modkilled, so if you are town, just sub out. Dip was very sus on Bunny, and while I liked his posts at the time, on reread they get worse. I can easily see a world where maf-Bunny votes dip a long time, then changes, never switching back to dip, and then kills dip at night. Well it could be just coincidence, but I think maf-Bunny would do stuff like that. Also no drunk-Bunny at night.

Subbing out as town is a weird recommendation.

?? if you feel unwell and are ill? Especially when we know we have a sub ready? Of course you should sub out then. Like, don't be a liability to your team, either work on it or sub out for someone that can!

[Kakarroto]

Now this is the part where you all show up destroy my posts and explain where I'm wrong.

I’m getting there…

sure, if you think so ...

[DreamTrawler]

Also, I have been unable to access the bot - no matter what browser I paste the link into it tells me "Not a secure connection" or "this site may be impersonating ... and trying to steal your information." Is there any other way I can access it?

You have to click through to advanced settings and allow it. Its certificates are misconfigured.

Alright, looking through it now.

Jamie and Will - why did you vote for ghug Day 1 again?

[JustAGuyNamedWill]

"mild"?



1. that doesn't look like 'mild' to me. You straight up declared that Jamie is town.

2. and no, the less lurker in a game, the more information there is from every other participant. That is flawless logic, and NOT shitty.

3. Especially since there are enough people that potentially hide behind lurking when they are mafia.

1. It is mild. Sorry for misunderstanding. I just clal ppl town if my gut says so. I’ve done it in other town games of mine if you’re wondering if its AI

2. I have a question: do you think killing a lurker was better than killing mafia in that situation?

3. Does red hide behind lurking as mafia? Or does he just lurk all the time. He lurks all the time

ok then, it had, at least for me, a very big impression. Please make that clearer for the future. Don't call them town, call them towny or townish. Or add that it's just a vibe. At least for me it would be much clearer.

theoretically, a mafia, that way we might see a connection to other mafiosi. HOWEVER; we had a few games where we voted out a mafia day one, and then LOST as town BECAUSE of it. It's now a running joke in our community. Like, a good luck charm. I believe, however, that is, because the mafia has more time, and it creates more information for town. So maybe, maybe, it's actually not so good to vote out mafia on day one? A crazy thought though, and we can't just sit back and just villi nilli do that, we always need to strive to vote mafia, or else it wont work.

alright, imagine a world where Red was still in the game, and we lost one more town. Lets say, one of you, Jamie, or me, whoever you want to believe is town. What would Red have done for town to make us win? How could anyone be sure that Red is town at that point? That's just an easy candidate to lose at the final 5, or final 3

Honestly I disagree with the conclusion but I understand the logic behind it

However I would argue that this also allows for mafia sweeps, so I think we do need to find a good balance. Its why I always love a fluid EOD because thats where mafia has to expose themselves