MAFIA 92 - The return of the Witchfinder General [GAME THREAD]

[worcej]

Y'all can keep going, but like, I dont really get what's supposed to come from this besides a reread of both of us. Even in the individual moments highlighted, you're conflicted on where to give the point. And many things are being ignored. Correlations between dip and BB are especially sus since they both are known to fuck around and say all sorts of things as players at a high volume AND they were both scum AND they both had periods where they were essentially outed scum or knew their death was very likely soon and are even more likely to give positive and negative real and false correlations just to confuse the issue.

I go off summative gut feelings more so than a bunch of individual Veneittes of + towny this or - towny that. The magnitude of each veneittes are not the same. BB said 100 towny things and 100 scummy things, but his meltdown is all I needed to take my mostly town read for most of the game and turn him into the top scum read. Idk, just food for thought, and something I'd be down to discuss more in the god thread after things resolve.

The thing is, as I have said, BB uses truth as well as lies as scum. So would Dip.

But what stands out to me is the subtle posts he made regarding you on D1 and D2 continuing to reinforce your obv!town opinions of people. Then I see the lists BB made of obv!town and everyone of them is dead town, Vecna, and just bozo. Typical scum players would put a teammate in that list to help protect their position. So it’s a wash for me there.

But then, I look at your posts/cases and I see little investigation or use of facts/analysis - it’s just all opinions and feelings. All your responses this phase have been weird/off and borderline antagonistic at me because I scum you over bozo. I feel like you’re trying to come at me from the emotional side primarily because that’s easier to fake than staying in the facts of the game.

[worcej]

i really dont see how you can see bozo as town, hasn't raised a good point the whole day, not like town bozo at all. I am here doing everything I can, most of the time he is just clenching his sphincter and hoping you both turn against me and poking me with weird stuff occasionally because he doesnt have a real town position to stand on himself.

Nor have you.

Post volume aside, bozo is far more substance and analysis while you’re just screaming.

[worcej]

Dip put a shit ton of effort in to town you early on D2. Why would he do that?

He then later tried to get you and everyone towned you because he tried to wagon you when he was desperate, completely forgetting that bussing is possible.

[SpiritoftheRadio]

Y'all can keep going, but like, I dont really get what's supposed to come from this besides a reread of both of us. Even in the individual moments highlighted, you're conflicted on where to give the point. And many things are being ignored. Correlations between dip and BB are especially sus since they both are known to fuck around and say all sorts of things as players at a high volume AND they were both scum AND they both had periods where they were essentially outed scum or knew their death was very likely soon and are even more likely to give positive and negative real and false correlations just to confuse the issue.

I go off summative gut feelings more so than a bunch of individual Veneittes of + towny this or - towny that. The magnitude of each veneittes are not the same. BB said 100 towny things and 100 scummy things, but his meltdown is all I needed to take my mostly town read for most of the game and turn him into the top scum read. Idk, just food for thought, and something I'd be down to discuss more in the god thread after things resolve.

The thing is, as I have said, BB uses truth as well as lies as scum. So would Dip.

But what stands out to me is the subtle posts he made regarding you on D1 and D2 continuing to reinforce your obv!town opinions of people. Then I see the lists BB made of obv!town and everyone of them is dead town, Vecna, and just bozo. Typical scum players would put a teammate in that list to help protect their position. So it’s a wash for me there.

But then, I look at your posts/cases and I see little investigation or use of facts/analysis - it’s just all opinions and feelings. All your responses this phase have been weird/off and borderline antagonistic at me because I scum you over bozo. I feel like you’re trying to come at me from the emotional side primarily because that’s easier to fake than staying in the facts of the game.

listen, you scum read me before I made any of those posts, dont pretend it has changed anything. You have a bias that I'm scum and you won't come off it. You still won't engage with my post giving you my town explanation, some of that was facts, some of it was emotion. This is a social deduction game, it is solved more often with gut than with facts, so yes, that matters to me.

[SpiritoftheRadio]

i really dont see how you can see bozo as town, hasn't raised a good point the whole day, not like town bozo at all. I am here doing everything I can, most of the time he is just clenching his sphincter and hoping you both turn against me and poking me with weird stuff occasionally because he doesnt have a real town position to stand on himself.

Nor have you.

Post volume aside, bozo is far more substance and analysis while you’re just screaming.

hard diagree, if you're that stuck on killing me and not move, declare it so food can make the choice of if we kill you or me, I'm tired of putting effort into someone who isn't listening.

[SpiritoftheRadio]

Dip put a shit ton of effort in to town you early on D2. Why would he do that?

He then later tried to get you and everyone towned you because he tried to wagon you when he was desperate, completely forgetting that bussing is possible.

I dont think dip even towned me hard, but if he did it was because everyone in the game save for you and other scum did. It was obvious and he got town cred for pointing out the obvious

[worcej]

i really dont see how you can see bozo as town, hasn't raised a good point the whole day, not like town bozo at all. I am here doing everything I can, most of the time he is just clenching his sphincter and hoping you both turn against me and poking me with weird stuff occasionally because he doesnt have a real town position to stand on himself.

I am with bozo that your posts, like these, are very on-tone with your M1029 game:

The brainbomb pressure machine now turns to me. Idk man, my read is brain is mafia, it was painfully obvious since his first post today and now is stuck mentioning non sequitur Olympics posts since he needs to cover up a pretty bad prenegotiated code system. His analysis is also criticizing me for read changes I made days ago and also for not changing my reads on people like bona. I had paragraphs on paragraphs saying why and, if you look, when my reads changed. He made a point not to quite those because they were too long, but the narrative looks better without my words (he has been quoting lengthy posts all along so far). Really doesn't seem like a guy making honest arguments, seems like someone trying to paint a picture.

I thought about brain being turned today because previously he seemed very town to me, but then if that code was a prenegotiated code in the mafia chat, he could not have been turned today since he'd need to talk about it before hand. So he had to be mafia before then since recruits happen at EoN and he couldn't talk to mafia about it before today. I feel there is a strong chance BB may be an OG spy or he was turned N1. If that's true, most of my previous analysis is not really possible since Colby x bozo couldn't be a thing if BB was mafia before today. This makes brainbomb one of the best choices for killin imo.

Let's just rip the bandaid off and do the 180 town to scum ima vote for you right back at you brain, the end vote on me after bozo ends on me seems real scummy, especially considering how much you like to talk.

##vote brainbomb

[SpiritoftheRadio]

i really dont see how you can see bozo as town, hasn't raised a good point the whole day, not like town bozo at all. I am here doing everything I can, most of the time he is just clenching his sphincter and hoping you both turn against me and poking me with weird stuff occasionally because he doesnt have a real town position to stand on himself.

I am with bozo that your posts, like these, are very on-tone with your M1029 game:

The brainbomb pressure machine now turns to me. Idk man, my read is brain is mafia, it was painfully obvious since his first post today and now is stuck mentioning non sequitur Olympics posts since he needs to cover up a pretty bad prenegotiated code system. His analysis is also criticizing me for read changes I made days ago and also for not changing my reads on people like bona. I had paragraphs on paragraphs saying why and, if you look, when my reads changed. He made a point not to quite those because they were too long, but the narrative looks better without my words (he has been quoting lengthy posts all along so far). Really doesn't seem like a guy making honest arguments, seems like someone trying to paint a picture.

I thought about brain being turned today because previously he seemed very town to me, but then if that code was a prenegotiated code in the mafia chat, he could not have been turned today since he'd need to talk about it before hand. So he had to be mafia before then since recruits happen at EoN and he couldn't talk to mafia about it before today. I feel there is a strong chance BB may be an OG spy or he was turned N1. If that's true, most of my previous analysis is not really possible since Colby x bozo couldn't be a thing if BB was mafia before today. This makes brainbomb one of the best choices for killin imo.

Let's just rip the bandaid off and do the 180 town to scum ima vote for you right back at you brain, the end vote on me after bozo ends on me seems real scummy, especially considering how much you like to talk.

##vote brainbomb

go read any town game, itll look the same because thats just my voice and style. Have you read any of my town games or are you only looking for scum tells and not town ones?

[worcej]

Y'all can keep going, but like, I dont really get what's supposed to come from this besides a reread of both of us. Even in the individual moments highlighted, you're conflicted on where to give the point. And many things are being ignored. Correlations between dip and BB are especially sus since they both are known to fuck around and say all sorts of things as players at a high volume AND they were both scum AND they both had periods where they were essentially outed scum or knew their death was very likely soon and are even more likely to give positive and negative real and false correlations just to confuse the issue.

I go off summative gut feelings more so than a bunch of individual Veneittes of + towny this or - towny that. The magnitude of each veneittes are not the same. BB said 100 towny things and 100 scummy things, but his meltdown is all I needed to take my mostly town read for most of the game and turn him into the top scum read. Idk, just food for thought, and something I'd be down to discuss more in the god thread after things resolve.

The thing is, as I have said, BB uses truth as well as lies as scum. So would Dip.

But what stands out to me is the subtle posts he made regarding you on D1 and D2 continuing to reinforce your obv!town opinions of people. Then I see the lists BB made of obv!town and everyone of them is dead town, Vecna, and just bozo. Typical scum players would put a teammate in that list to help protect their position. So it’s a wash for me there.

But then, I look at your posts/cases and I see little investigation or use of facts/analysis - it’s just all opinions and feelings. All your responses this phase have been weird/off and borderline antagonistic at me because I scum you over bozo. I feel like you’re trying to come at me from the emotional side primarily because that’s easier to fake than staying in the facts of the game.

listen, you scum read me before I made any of those posts, dont pretend it has changed anything. You have a bias that I'm scum and you won't come off it. You still won't engage with my post giving you my town explanation, some of that was facts, some of it was emotion. This is a social deduction game, it is solved more often with gut than with facts, so yes, that matters to me.

Yeah, and my gut screams you’re scum for everything, especially when you pushed me with BB on N5

[worcej]

@food - I don’t see myself moving based on your dive.

If I am wrong, I’ll concede that BB was impressive as hell this game and bozo definitely went more rogue with his scum game than I expected.

If I am right, I will brag about the fact I did indeed catch the two scum this game that Spirit expected me to find lol

[worcej]

To be clear, I am not shutting the door on your analysis, but you seem just as internally contested as I am but my gut still screams Spirit, thus I am at that way.

[SpiritoftheRadio]

The thing is, as I have said, BB uses truth as well as lies as scum. So would Dip.

But what stands out to me is the subtle posts he made regarding you on D1 and D2 continuing to reinforce your obv!town opinions of people. Then I see the lists BB made of obv!town and everyone of them is dead town, Vecna, and just bozo. Typical scum players would put a teammate in that list to help protect their position. So it’s a wash for me there.

But then, I look at your posts/cases and I see little investigation or use of facts/analysis - it’s just all opinions and feelings. All your responses this phase have been weird/off and borderline antagonistic at me because I scum you over bozo. I feel like you’re trying to come at me from the emotional side primarily because that’s easier to fake than staying in the facts of the game.

listen, you scum read me before I made any of those posts, dont pretend it has changed anything. You have a bias that I'm scum and you won't come off it. You still won't engage with my post giving you my town explanation, some of that was facts, some of it was emotion. This is a social deduction game, it is solved more often with gut than with facts, so yes, that matters to me.

Yeah, and my gut screams you’re scum for everything, especially when you pushed me with BB on N5

well, you're wrong. I just think a soft town cleared player making it to mid-late game and not doing anything for town the whole time is suspicious. I do that to ghug all the time, this game in fact since I mostly scum read him this game. Usually mafia wanna take out good players in a vacuum of info. Not sure how much I even pushed you, I never voted for you I dont think. You're just salty that I accused you of being scum? its mafia. BB accused a lot of people, sometimes I went with him like on ghug, other times i didnt. Same as everyone. There isn't as good of info here as you think there is, you just decide what matters and what doesnt to fit with your bias and cant see that.

[SpiritoftheRadio]

@food - I don’t see myself moving based on your dive.

If I am wrong, I’ll concede that BB was impressive as hell this game and bozo definitely went more rogue with his scum game than I expected.

If I am right, I will brag about the fact I did indeed catch the two scum this game that Spirit expected me to find lol

then the game is over and all besides bozo has lost. I wanna push you and end in spite, but I'm going to give it a night. Please just fucking reread my I'm town post, or reread my posts with less bias and you'll see, like basically everyone else did, that I'm town.

[SpiritoftheRadio]

@worecj also why did you say you hoped to die and then said you lied about not scumming me when you really did to live, and then I go back and reread your posts and despite my initial thought you did think I was town, your posts literally dont say that and I was in my own little world where I thought everyone knew I was an obvious towny. Like, why all this saying you did a think you didn't do stuff, its just weird, like you're trying to myth make. It feels you're really going against me as some sort of play at being hailed a genius at the end when you saw a scum no one else did, when the reality is everyone else was right and is facepalming like I am.

[SpiritoftheRadio]

@food, I am going to be pretty busy tomorrow, so I'll be able to switch votes at like 2 hours before end of day at the lastest, going to leave my end vote on bozo in hopes you can show him reason

[SpiritoftheRadio]

God thread, send me your strength, I dont know what else to do

[worcej]

Town tells:
-Voted for dip as a tie breaker (yes I did, look at the thread, bozo is wrong, bunnys jump)
- I pushed HARD for a resolution to a tie on that day it tied, even trying to give up my ghug tunnel for demon at the end because I knew it was better for town to get info
- I was extremely happy to go along with vecna's proposal, something scum would never do
- I did push BB several times, although I did defend him a bit too.
- I strongly opposed several townies being killed (mimi, will, demon)
- I have been on bozo for a while and my read was genuine before process of elimination made it easy
- I've been open and honest the whole game, even to the point of being an idiot and misreading things several times, I am not worried about it because I have nothing to hide
- I COULD be pushing you right now, food seemed to want it, but its obvious it isnt you or you're a psychopath as final scum. I want to win and I am town, so I'm not.
- Everyone who has died has town read me, if I was night killing people, you and bozo wouldn't be alive because why would I take people to the end game who will maybe kill me when there were many other others that were just as good to take to the finals and didn't think I could be scum.
- Idk dude, my social vibe was good enough to get town read by everyone in the game besides you and scum, look at the company youre in, even if you can't see it, literally everyone else can

Responses in order:

• You voted for Dip with 3 minutes left in the phase, putting him in the lead by 3 votes. Brain was already "stuck" on Dip, so this is just another example of bussing for benefit to me. I don't town you for this.
• Pushing to ensure that there is no tie is really NAI, as town wants information and as scum you'd like the kill to result in a town player. Both players in contention (ghug and RHK) are now confirmed town, so both sides didn't benefit from this situation (other than the RHK claim helped scum). Thus, I don't town you for this.
• So, goes with my tinfoil hat theory, but I'm fairly sure BB was the PR and by agreeing with the plan, you were creating distance. I understand that this is my play, but it is backed up by the ND kill versus the RB/Kill on Food, who was an outted PR. Definitely no town points for you here.
• When did you push brain? Other than voting him on D3, I don't see any actual "pushes"... You went into defense mode with him D4 and then came after me for going for will and brain... I seriously scum you for this.
• Opposing townies being killed doesn't earn you town points... if your only ability is to be a "monday-morning QB" player, then maybe it could? But really, you've been not really pushing anything and just reactionary/responsive... and I think you're more capable than that.
• Interesting cross-posting - you've been on bozo for awhile, which should get you town points. But... I'm bad for being "stuck on you"? Somewhat interesting that you've spent a lot of this phase being surprised I'm scumming you over bozo when I spent so much time saying "It's BB/Bozo" with ND. Wouldn't that be more inline with me adapting my opinion based off what is happening in the game? This is pretty inconsistent logic/reasoning by you that you seem to twist for your gain but punish me for doing similar...
• Yeah, the open, honest, "too stupid to be scum" play has gotten people scum wins several times. IDGAF about you being honest, especially when you're not really pushing anything to begin with and more commentating on situations after the fact versus initiating something.
• I think if you just went and pushed me, you'd get killed easier. Go ahead and try to scum me - explain why I am scum and actually case what I've been doing with facts and my posts along with what Dip and BB did with me. Go on, do it - it'll be the most effort you've actually initiated this game.
• Let me say this for you and the ghosts that townread you...
  

  THE DEAD CAN BE WRONG. REVIEW THEIR OPINIONS BUT UNDERSTAND THAT JUST BECAUSE THEY TOWN SOMEONE DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE MORE RIGHT THAN THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ALIVE.

• Yes, your vibes have gotten you townread. But you should've been killed for that while ago if you were town since you were so townread. Honestly, I would've killed you over ND since ND had some serious scum~vibes from everyone but me.

[worcej]

@worecj also why did you say you hoped to die and then said you lied about not scumming me when you really did to live, and then I go back and reread your posts and despite my initial thought you did think I was town, your posts literally dont say that and I was in my own little world where I thought everyone knew I was an obvious towny. Like, why all this saying you did a think you didn't do stuff, its just weird, like you're trying to myth make. It feels you're really going against me as some sort of play at being hailed a genius at the end when you saw a scum no one else did, when the reality is everyone else was right and is facepalming like I am.

Lol, you know what. I think this just about does it for me - the attacks/strokes at my ego have gone on long enough that I think you were coached into it by BB to try to get me to move/react.

##end

@Food, unless you really really can put together a great case, I'm not moving - so come on over or just accept the tie, your death, and then the spirit result on D8.

If I am wrong,
If I am right,

[worcej]

I guess upon rereading worecj, he was not as pro me as I thought. Sad.

This post today tweaked me significantly because I think Spirit was actually counting on me to push him over the finish line.

[worcej]

Bah, ##unend

mother fucking game sometimes...

I'm going to sleep on this.