MAFIA 92 - The return of the Witchfinder General [GAME THREAD]

[Vecna]

even though i sorta wanna interfere in the insufferable post-game chat that is about to unfold, I will let this play out the way it plays out.

Good luck town.

##vote Vecna
##end

[dargorygel]

COUNTING OF VOTES

Vecna (5): foodcoats, bozotheclown, worcej, ND, Vecna
foodcoats (1): brainbomb
brainbomb (1): SpiritoftheRadio

Vecna endvotes Vecna

Vecna has the most votes.

Day Ends in under 9.5 hours

[foodcoats]

I actually left my living room, where my kids are now plugged into Bluey, to come to my PC to type this out versus using my phone and getting annoyed while doing it.

After reading the posts so far, this post is aimed at Spirit, food, and ND - who I believe are the remaining town with me. GT, mark my words (and lawlz at me if I am wrong - post-game will tell me the truth when I get there)

My conclusion on all of what's happened this phase is the following:

• 3p!Vecna is making the best move he can to give him the best chance to win. He has concluded that scum are keeping food alive, a pretty well established clear at this point (no CC from anyone else), alive because they are concerned about killing him and then their PR dying and they then lose. By keeping food alive, they ensure 3p cannot win.
• The fact that food is alive still boosts the credibility of Vecna's claim. Unless scum think food is a dogshit player, I've never seen a scum team keep a semi-clear player alive over a VT who had people scumming him (ghug). The 3p existence, and their potential to know that it's a witch via schenanigans, is the most likely explanation for why food is alive now.
• Vecna's potential information could end the game for scum, thus this offer impacts them the most. There's a lot of hypotheticals here and Vecna may not have all the information he is indicating he does, but he most likely does know 1 or 2 VTs, which narrows the pool of POE down significantly. He also is offering up their last PR specifically, so it'd be down to that last one player to pull this game off (if even possible)
• It is perfectly in the realm of reason that Vecna could be lying here. Quite frankly, I expect him to be lying a little bit. But, the second bullet does lead me to believe he isn't the warlock here. I've made the GM calls and several comments piecing together how he got the potential information.

So that's my list of what's happening - effectively what got us here. Here is my conclusion on what happens:

• By accepting Vecna's offer, we (the town) point a gun at scum and force them to make a move. Mafia, ultimately, boils down to town usually making uninformed decisions and deducing who is the bad guys and (hopefully) eliminating them. We usually fuck this up because of one or two people and thus scum win at the end. Based off how this game has been going, and this is solely my own opinion, idk if town is going to be able to unify to accomplish a win because of the amount of people scumming me and I am a VT.
  
  So, in this case, what makes Vecna's offer unique (and hilarious to me) is this:
  1. If Vecna is telling the truth and is the witch - scum have to be the kingmaker. Do they side with town to spite Vecna or do they give the game to Vecna? Usually this is forced upon town when we've effectively lost, but we're not there yet - also adding more credibility to Vecna FWIW - and there is still a chance all 3 parties can win. I'll let you piece the details together yourself here, as I don't want to help the scum out lol...
  2. If Vecna is lying and is the Warlock - scum know he is lying in this case and, to prevent town from giving the game to Vecna, they must out one of themselves by calling Vecna's shit out.
• Based off above, I believe the best strategy scum can employ right now is to try to push the narrative that Vecna is the Warlock, regardless of being factual or not. The Warlock is the big bad boogie-man of win-now mode and the remaining 2 scum need to invalidate Vecna's offer as much as possible to damage control. It's in their best interest to promote this attack. For this reason, and the posting being done so far, I believe the last scum pair is brain and bozo.

And for the sake of addressing the attacks at me:

• Scum!worcej would never in my lifetime have made the amount of posts to confirm the information with GM calls to piece this shit together. I would've done the same exact shit as BB and bozo - push the warlock narrative exclusively to invalidate the offer from Vecna.
• In a vacuum, the offer does force a 50/50-ish situation for town to win, but I feel those odds are better because of the amount of people mistakenly scumming me. I am actively addressing the issues you guys have with my gameplay right now, but consistently I am being flagged as scummy for my reasoning (recently food's comments) and then meta attacks. There are very few actual "you did this this game, thus scummy" lines outside of BB's manipulation/conspiracy thoughts. I am at a loss for why you'd think scum!worcej would do any of this analysis or entertain Vecna's offer if you really think this through. The only thing I can come up with is you think I'm trying to do a crazy game changing ploy, but if you've been scum with me, you know I like to be a puppeteer and manipulate things subtley, not with some fucking nutty play like this.

Alright - wall post done. Hopefully you read it and get where my head is at.

brainbomb has apparently confirmed Vecna is the witch. I don't think Vecna thought his claim out very well, though. I don't agree it is a 50/50 situation for town, because there is no reason for us to let Vecna take a 50/50 shot at foodcoats when foodcoats is able to tell us whether we need to DK Vecna today or not.

We need to DK brainbomb and Vecna, the order only matters if foodcoats protected himself N5. foodcoats is voting for Vecna, so I will take that as a clue, unless foodcoats says otherwise.

##VOTE Vecna

if he was roleblocked he can self-save regardless.

You can confirm this with the GM

I actually did and you’re wrong.

[foodcoats]

What did he say? Combing the iso again…

Bringing my own post back up.

There are logical inconsistencies in Vecna’s claim. (Unless I missed something.)

So I’m just mulling over what is going on.

In specific I’m wondering about the N3 claim because that is where Vecna’s story falls apart I think.

There are no inconsistencies. Youre just missing the bigger picture, and you'll be unable to grasp it without me offering it up.

You dont wanna play ball. I respect that.

Even though its easy to say since you wont have to be the one to actually catch the last scum.

The only way scum would know is if you redirected the kill, in which case you cannot captivate the goon again, in which case I assume your play was to cause scum to throw to you by killing me.

[foodcoats]

Or I just missed something lol

its due to a very arcane mechanical interaction.

You'll see it after the game

Okay, interesting

[foodcoats]

Vecna, real respect real. Might be time for you to claim your actual role before the end hammers start flyin

Ive strongly contemplated counter-claiming for a long time, but I do not think it was ever going to be believable with how it was me that outted foodcoats blunder, and how i responded after that.

Also, he probably has some silly softs hiding somewhere. Which I do not.

It wouldve been an embarrasing display. Even more so after I had already claimed 3p.

I don’t soft, I always hard.

[foodcoats]

For clarity for town, my saves were

Self
Vecna (lol)
Self
Worcej
Self

I was RBd last night and confirmed I am NOT allowed to self save tonight.

So I would have to advocate a kill of Vecna always.

But I’m also pretty sure Vecna can’t redirect a kill and wanted scum to throw to him. But maybe it is like he claims, there is some weird interaction.

[foodcoats]

Also with Vecna claiming brain is not the mafia PR… who the heck knows… but brain is obviously scum as he also publicly conceded in, what, the Judge Dredd game?

[foodcoats]

But also yeah the fact that Vecna did not confirm how my role works, or misunderstood it, means he may have misunderstood a lot or just lied a lot, and hilariously got a reaction test for us.

I think ND and worcej had very townie reactions today.

[foodcoats]

Oh unless means he would always be guessing even if he forced me to self target because it was based on my targeting choice.

That makes sense

[foodcoats]

Further review of roles and timing and… Vecna is lying about mechanics SOMEWHERE. Started making me wonder if he is scum but I don’t see the game plan

[ND]

I have such a headache. Thanks for your replies @Spirit.

[ND]

Anyway, taking Vecna out now is the best course of action then Brainbomb D7.

I'll be thinking about who Brainbomb and Dip&War's partner is, but my gut says its Bozo. That's about all I got.

I don't know if much more needs to be said here. Based on Vecna's last post I doubt he is going to engage further.

@Food you should make the call on if you want to end the day as you are our PR, but I don't really see the value in dragging it out now.

[worcej]

##vote Vecna

Sorry chap, but BB went frantic and killed your value position

I was under the impression that BB was obvious scum as soon as they NK'd ghug.

It shouldve been obvious at least to anyone paying attention.

Killing ghug was a misplay on their part. They should have killed foodcoats and offered up their goon, so town could never kill their PR untill the 3 way.

Like I said, I was never gonna offer you brainbomb

The problem always comes down to my inability to rally or motivate people to agree with me or my positions. I also typically fail to bring those cases back up if people already turn them down in the past.

[worcej]

Vecna, real respect real. Might be time for you to claim your actual role before the end hammers start flyin

Ive strongly contemplated counter-claiming for a long time, but I do not think it was ever going to be believable with how it was me that outted foodcoats blunder, and how i responded after that.

Also, he probably has some silly softs hiding somewhere. Which I do not.

It wouldve been an embarrasing display. Even more so after I had already claimed 3p.

I don’t soft, I always hard.

Lol, respect

[foodcoats]

I’m musing over whether Vecna was scum playing a wild gambit and brain lost his shit, and we will have to find the real 3P, but I guess we will find out.

[worcej]

even though i sorta wanna interfere in the insufferable post-game chat that is about to unfold, I will let this play out the way it plays out.

Good luck town.

##vote Vecna
##end

Oh we’ll drink our drinks over your corpse

[worcej]

I’m musing over whether Vecna was scum playing a wild gambit and brain lost his shit, and we will have to find the real 3P, but I guess we will find out.

Why would a scum do that in this position? Scum were not at a point of being screwed yet.

[foodcoats]

I’m musing over whether Vecna was scum playing a wild gambit and brain lost his shit, and we will have to find the real 3P, but I guess we will find out.

Why would a scum do that in this position? Scum were not at a point of being screwed yet.

Yeah I’m trying to figure out why his claims dont make sense to me.

I guess is it that Rhk RBd Vecna when he redirected an ability and the RB message also went to scum?

[foodcoats]

Although he would still be lying insofar as… he must’ve taken control on N2 and hence could not have visited the lie detector, or he would not be able to control for a kill, right?

Like vecna is claiming (by my deduction) to have controlled both the remaining mafia… so he cannot direct a kill anymore