MAFIA 92 - The return of the Witchfinder General [GAME THREAD]

[ND]

@Bozo: Where are you?

@Spirit: Where are you?

@Food: Wtf are you doing?


How is everyone not voting for Brainbomb?

He literally spent four hours earlier ranting and crying in the thread about how great he played it as mafia and how we should feel sorry for him.

WHERE

IS

EVERYONE?

PLAY

THE

GAME

YOU

SIGNED

UP

FOR

[bozotheclown]

I actually left my living room, where my kids are now plugged into Bluey, to come to my PC to type this out versus using my phone and getting annoyed while doing it.

After reading the posts so far, this post is aimed at Spirit, food, and ND - who I believe are the remaining town with me. GT, mark my words (and lawlz at me if I am wrong - post-game will tell me the truth when I get there)

My conclusion on all of what's happened this phase is the following:

• 3p!Vecna is making the best move he can to give him the best chance to win. He has concluded that scum are keeping food alive, a pretty well established clear at this point (no CC from anyone else), alive because they are concerned about killing him and then their PR dying and they then lose. By keeping food alive, they ensure 3p cannot win.
• The fact that food is alive still boosts the credibility of Vecna's claim. Unless scum think food is a dogshit player, I've never seen a scum team keep a semi-clear player alive over a VT who had people scumming him (ghug). The 3p existence, and their potential to know that it's a witch via schenanigans, is the most likely explanation for why food is alive now.
• Vecna's potential information could end the game for scum, thus this offer impacts them the most. There's a lot of hypotheticals here and Vecna may not have all the information he is indicating he does, but he most likely does know 1 or 2 VTs, which narrows the pool of POE down significantly. He also is offering up their last PR specifically, so it'd be down to that last one player to pull this game off (if even possible)
• It is perfectly in the realm of reason that Vecna could be lying here. Quite frankly, I expect him to be lying a little bit. But, the second bullet does lead me to believe he isn't the warlock here. I've made the GM calls and several comments piecing together how he got the potential information.

So that's my list of what's happening - effectively what got us here. Here is my conclusion on what happens:

• By accepting Vecna's offer, we (the town) point a gun at scum and force them to make a move. Mafia, ultimately, boils down to town usually making uninformed decisions and deducing who is the bad guys and (hopefully) eliminating them. We usually fuck this up because of one or two people and thus scum win at the end. Based off how this game has been going, and this is solely my own opinion, idk if town is going to be able to unify to accomplish a win because of the amount of people scumming me and I am a VT.
  
  So, in this case, what makes Vecna's offer unique (and hilarious to me) is this:
  1. If Vecna is telling the truth and is the witch - scum have to be the kingmaker. Do they side with town to spite Vecna or do they give the game to Vecna? Usually this is forced upon town when we've effectively lost, but we're not there yet - also adding more credibility to Vecna FWIW - and there is still a chance all 3 parties can win. I'll let you piece the details together yourself here, as I don't want to help the scum out lol...
  2. If Vecna is lying and is the Warlock - scum know he is lying in this case and, to prevent town from giving the game to Vecna, they must out one of themselves by calling Vecna's shit out.
• Based off above, I believe the best strategy scum can employ right now is to try to push the narrative that Vecna is the Warlock, regardless of being factual or not. The Warlock is the big bad boogie-man of win-now mode and the remaining 2 scum need to invalidate Vecna's offer as much as possible to damage control. It's in their best interest to promote this attack. For this reason, and the posting being done so far, I believe the last scum pair is brain and bozo.

And for the sake of addressing the attacks at me:

• Scum!worcej would never in my lifetime have made the amount of posts to confirm the information with GM calls to piece this shit together. I would've done the same exact shit as BB and bozo - push the warlock narrative exclusively to invalidate the offer from Vecna.
• In a vacuum, the offer does force a 50/50-ish situation for town to win, but I feel those odds are better because of the amount of people mistakenly scumming me. I am actively addressing the issues you guys have with my gameplay right now, but consistently I am being flagged as scummy for my reasoning (recently food's comments) and then meta attacks. There are very few actual "you did this this game, thus scummy" lines outside of BB's manipulation/conspiracy thoughts. I am at a loss for why you'd think scum!worcej would do any of this analysis or entertain Vecna's offer if you really think this through. The only thing I can come up with is you think I'm trying to do a crazy game changing ploy, but if you've been scum with me, you know I like to be a puppeteer and manipulate things subtley, not with some fucking nutty play like this.

Alright - wall post done. Hopefully you read it and get where my head is at.

brainbomb has apparently confirmed Vecna is the witch. I don't think Vecna thought his claim out very well, though. I don't agree it is a 50/50 situation for town, because there is no reason for us to let Vecna take a 50/50 shot at foodcoats when foodcoats is able to tell us whether we need to DK Vecna today or not.

We need to DK brainbomb and Vecna, the order only matters if foodcoats protected himself N5. foodcoats is voting for Vecna, so I will take that as a clue, unless foodcoats says otherwise.

##VOTE Vecna

[bozotheclown]

@Bozo: Where are you?

@Spirit: Where are you?

@Food: Wtf are you doing?


How is everyone not voting for Brainbomb?

He literally spent four hours earlier ranting and crying in the thread about how great he played it as mafia and how we should feel sorry for him.

WHERE

IS

EVERYONE?

PLAY

THE

GAME

YOU

SIGNED

UP

FOR

There are reasons why it is better to get rid of the 3P first.

[brainbomb]

##vote food

Pretty sure vecna is town lie detector

[bozotheclown]

Assuming Vecna is the witch, he was in an almost unwinnable position when a town PR got DKed D1 (that may turn out to be a game winning play by Red Neurax). That does not mean we have to give Vecna a shot at winning by DKing the mafia PR first when he claims he can still redirect a NK onto foodcoats.

[foodcoats]

Okay I’m caught up.

So, just checking, Vecna has not stated how scum knew of him as of N3, right?

BB has offered that information up

What did he say? Combing the iso again…

Bringing my own post back up.

There are logical inconsistencies in Vecna’s claim. (Unless I missed something.)

So I’m just mulling over what is going on.

In specific I’m wondering about the N3 claim because that is where Vecna’s story falls apart I think.

[foodcoats]

How does scum know there is a witch as of N3 and how does that square with Vecna’s plan as written? To me there is an error. Wondering if anyone else is seeing it.

[foodcoats]

Or I just missed something lol

[bozotheclown]

SpiritoftheRadio is probably the last mafia, with a chance that brainbomb/ND or brainbomb/worcej are performing some high effort scum theater.

[bozotheclown]

How does scum know there is a witch as of N3 and how does that square with Vecna’s plan as written? To me there is an error. Wondering if anyone else is seeing it.

Yes, I pointed that out here:

I can assure you if there is a witch he would know everyones allignment by now.

I can confidently say this, because i am in fact a witch, and I know everyones allignment and role.

Mafia has also known my identity since N3, and theyve known theyre dealing with a witch since then as well. Theyre trying to make town do their dirty work, or theyre trying to make me their puppet because they realize I need them to kill the last town PR.

Allowing either of that to happen goes directly against my wincon.

Im not really the kingmaking type either, but I realize that my path to victory is very unlikelym, but there is still a small chance if I try to puppeteer things myself.

Assuming competent scum play, they will never kill the town PR before me, so I need to attempt to direct things in a way that still gives every party a shot to win.

Like Ghug said, the drudgeries of 3 party diplomacy.

alright time for some more disclosure.

I visited the mafia lie detector N1. I will talk about all the mechanics involved in a bit. I redirected the action to [REDACTED].

On all subsequent nights i visited townies (VT's). And have not been able to redirect anything. Last night i visited foodcoats to 100% guarantee no shenanigans took place there. I couldve let him self-heal but that wouldnt have helped, because sadly for my role, regardless of whether he gets roleblocked, or bewitched to self-heal, he can just self-heal again the next night.

Originally, Vecna said the mafia knew his identify since N3, implying he redirected the N3 NK. However, Vecna then claimed he visited a VT N3. Whatever Vecna is doing, he is definitely fabricating information.

[worcej]

How does scum know there is a witch as of N3 and how does that square with Vecna’s plan as written? To me there is an error. Wondering if anyone else is seeing it.

I assumed Vecna is lying about visits/timing honestly.

[worcej]

I actually left my living room, where my kids are now plugged into Bluey, to come to my PC to type this out versus using my phone and getting annoyed while doing it.

After reading the posts so far, this post is aimed at Spirit, food, and ND - who I believe are the remaining town with me. GT, mark my words (and lawlz at me if I am wrong - post-game will tell me the truth when I get there)

My conclusion on all of what's happened this phase is the following:

• 3p!Vecna is making the best move he can to give him the best chance to win. He has concluded that scum are keeping food alive, a pretty well established clear at this point (no CC from anyone else), alive because they are concerned about killing him and then their PR dying and they then lose. By keeping food alive, they ensure 3p cannot win.
• The fact that food is alive still boosts the credibility of Vecna's claim. Unless scum think food is a dogshit player, I've never seen a scum team keep a semi-clear player alive over a VT who had people scumming him (ghug). The 3p existence, and their potential to know that it's a witch via schenanigans, is the most likely explanation for why food is alive now.
• Vecna's potential information could end the game for scum, thus this offer impacts them the most. There's a lot of hypotheticals here and Vecna may not have all the information he is indicating he does, but he most likely does know 1 or 2 VTs, which narrows the pool of POE down significantly. He also is offering up their last PR specifically, so it'd be down to that last one player to pull this game off (if even possible)
• It is perfectly in the realm of reason that Vecna could be lying here. Quite frankly, I expect him to be lying a little bit. But, the second bullet does lead me to believe he isn't the warlock here. I've made the GM calls and several comments piecing together how he got the potential information.

So that's my list of what's happening - effectively what got us here. Here is my conclusion on what happens:

• By accepting Vecna's offer, we (the town) point a gun at scum and force them to make a move. Mafia, ultimately, boils down to town usually making uninformed decisions and deducing who is the bad guys and (hopefully) eliminating them. We usually fuck this up because of one or two people and thus scum win at the end. Based off how this game has been going, and this is solely my own opinion, idk if town is going to be able to unify to accomplish a win because of the amount of people scumming me and I am a VT.
  
  So, in this case, what makes Vecna's offer unique (and hilarious to me) is this:
  1. If Vecna is telling the truth and is the witch - scum have to be the kingmaker. Do they side with town to spite Vecna or do they give the game to Vecna? Usually this is forced upon town when we've effectively lost, but we're not there yet - also adding more credibility to Vecna FWIW - and there is still a chance all 3 parties can win. I'll let you piece the details together yourself here, as I don't want to help the scum out lol...
  2. If Vecna is lying and is the Warlock - scum know he is lying in this case and, to prevent town from giving the game to Vecna, they must out one of themselves by calling Vecna's shit out.
• Based off above, I believe the best strategy scum can employ right now is to try to push the narrative that Vecna is the Warlock, regardless of being factual or not. The Warlock is the big bad boogie-man of win-now mode and the remaining 2 scum need to invalidate Vecna's offer as much as possible to damage control. It's in their best interest to promote this attack. For this reason, and the posting being done so far, I believe the last scum pair is brain and bozo.

And for the sake of addressing the attacks at me:

• Scum!worcej would never in my lifetime have made the amount of posts to confirm the information with GM calls to piece this shit together. I would've done the same exact shit as BB and bozo - push the warlock narrative exclusively to invalidate the offer from Vecna.
• In a vacuum, the offer does force a 50/50-ish situation for town to win, but I feel those odds are better because of the amount of people mistakenly scumming me. I am actively addressing the issues you guys have with my gameplay right now, but consistently I am being flagged as scummy for my reasoning (recently food's comments) and then meta attacks. There are very few actual "you did this this game, thus scummy" lines outside of BB's manipulation/conspiracy thoughts. I am at a loss for why you'd think scum!worcej would do any of this analysis or entertain Vecna's offer if you really think this through. The only thing I can come up with is you think I'm trying to do a crazy game changing ploy, but if you've been scum with me, you know I like to be a puppeteer and manipulate things subtley, not with some fucking nutty play like this.

Alright - wall post done. Hopefully you read it and get where my head is at.

brainbomb has apparently confirmed Vecna is the witch. I don't think Vecna thought his claim out very well, though. I don't agree it is a 50/50 situation for town, because there is no reason for us to let Vecna take a 50/50 shot at foodcoats when foodcoats is able to tell us whether we need to DK Vecna today or not.

We need to DK brainbomb and Vecna, the order only matters if foodcoats protected himself N5. foodcoats is voting for Vecna, so I will take that as a clue, unless foodcoats says otherwise.

##VOTE Vecna

I do agree that BB’s meltdown kinda confirms that Vecna was going to finger him and we could (and really should) kill Vecna now.

I was trying to ascertain his partner and I do think it’s Spirit, with the slight off-chance that it’s you.

[worcej]

##vote Vecna

Sorry chap, but BB went frantic and killed your value position

[brainbomb]

As you probably guessed yes I am the warlock

My elim choice to win today was ND. I was rbd once but did successfully get will and mimi so far.

1 short, but im lost at this point

[brainbomb]

##vote Vecna

Sorry chap, but BB went frantic and killed your value position

Sigh if id waited like 30 more seconds

[foodcoats]

How does scum know there is a witch as of N3 and how does that square with Vecna’s plan as written? To me there is an error. Wondering if anyone else is seeing it.

Yes, I pointed that out here:

I can assure you if there is a witch he would know everyones allignment by now.

I can confidently say this, because i am in fact a witch, and I know everyones allignment and role.

Mafia has also known my identity since N3, and theyve known theyre dealing with a witch since then as well. Theyre trying to make town do their dirty work, or theyre trying to make me their puppet because they realize I need them to kill the last town PR.

Allowing either of that to happen goes directly against my wincon.

Im not really the kingmaking type either, but I realize that my path to victory is very unlikelym, but there is still a small chance if I try to puppeteer things myself.

Assuming competent scum play, they will never kill the town PR before me, so I need to attempt to direct things in a way that still gives every party a shot to win.

Like Ghug said, the drudgeries of 3 party diplomacy.

alright time for some more disclosure.

I visited the mafia lie detector N1. I will talk about all the mechanics involved in a bit. I redirected the action to [REDACTED].

On all subsequent nights i visited townies (VT's). And have not been able to redirect anything. Last night i visited foodcoats to 100% guarantee no shenanigans took place there. I couldve let him self-heal but that wouldnt have helped, because sadly for my role, regardless of whether he gets roleblocked, or bewitched to self-heal, he can just self-heal again the next night.

Originally, Vecna said the mafia knew his identify since N3, implying he redirected the N3 NK. However, Vecna then claimed he visited a VT N3. Whatever Vecna is doing, he is definitely fabricating information.

Ah yes thank you.

I’m still wondering on vecs motivation for misrepresenting the situation but it’s probably his only chance to win

[ND]

fine

##vote Vecna

[brainbomb]

Vecna, real respect real. Might be time for you to claim your actual role before the end hammers start flyin

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 6.3

Vecna (4) - foodcoats, bozotheclown, worcej, ND
Foodcoats (1) - brainbomb

Somewhat less than 24 hours is the time now left in this day.

[brainbomb]

Alright so today ive learned alot.

I am actually the town Lie detector and I have confirmed vecna is town, and that food is not.