MAFIA 92 - The return of the Witchfinder General [GAME THREAD]

[worcej]

Whatever vecna is doing, if its pro town and he is a PR its weaponized you and ND into rambo mode

I don't think Vecna's doing something to be pro-town.

He's doing something to be pro-Vecna. I'm just utilizing it as best as I can because I fundamentally have zero faith in town coming together.

Youre not though, youre waiting mouth open for a big vecna load facial

Oh yeah baby, give me that protein.

Mmmmmmmmm....... slurp slurp

[worcej]

I anticipate a warning for that post lol

[brainbomb]

Solve the game yourself without any of that. Would you have? Would you honestly say youve played well enough that you would be a winner this game? That someone handed you something and you deserved it? Winning the game to
Me is secondary to actually playing it and playing it well. This is a game of winning others over, relationship building and collective cooperation. Its a team game not a gimme gimme fest. Hand me a win.

Hand yourself a win. Can you honestly say you deserve one?

[worcej]

I actually left my living room, where my kids are now plugged into Bluey, to come to my PC to type this out versus using my phone and getting annoyed while doing it.

After reading the posts so far, this post is aimed at Spirit, food, and ND - who I believe are the remaining town with me. GT, mark my words (and lawlz at me if I am wrong - post-game will tell me the truth when I get there)

My conclusion on all of what's happened this phase is the following:

• 3p!Vecna is making the best move he can to give him the best chance to win. He has concluded that scum are keeping food alive, a pretty well established clear at this point (no CC from anyone else), alive because they are concerned about killing him and then their PR dying and they then lose. By keeping food alive, they ensure 3p cannot win.
• The fact that food is alive still boosts the credibility of Vecna's claim. Unless scum think food is a dogshit player, I've never seen a scum team keep a semi-clear player alive over a VT who had people scumming him (ghug). The 3p existence, and their potential to know that it's a witch via schenanigans, is the most likely explanation for why food is alive now.
• Vecna's potential information could end the game for scum, thus this offer impacts them the most. There's a lot of hypotheticals here and Vecna may not have all the information he is indicating he does, but he most likely does know 1 or 2 VTs, which narrows the pool of POE down significantly. He also is offering up their last PR specifically, so it'd be down to that last one player to pull this game off (if even possible)
• It is perfectly in the realm of reason that Vecna could be lying here. Quite frankly, I expect him to be lying a little bit. But, the second bullet does lead me to believe he isn't the warlock here. I've made the GM calls and several comments piecing together how he got the potential information.

So that's my list of what's happening - effectively what got us here. Here is my conclusion on what happens:

• By accepting Vecna's offer, we (the town) point a gun at scum and force them to make a move. Mafia, ultimately, boils down to town usually making uninformed decisions and deducing who is the bad guys and (hopefully) eliminating them. We usually fuck this up because of one or two people and thus scum win at the end. Based off how this game has been going, and this is solely my own opinion, idk if town is going to be able to unify to accomplish a win because of the amount of people scumming me and I am a VT.
  
  So, in this case, what makes Vecna's offer unique (and hilarious to me) is this:
  1. If Vecna is telling the truth and is the witch - scum have to be the kingmaker. Do they side with town to spite Vecna or do they give the game to Vecna? Usually this is forced upon town when we've effectively lost, but we're not there yet - also adding more credibility to Vecna FWIW - and there is still a chance all 3 parties can win. I'll let you piece the details together yourself here, as I don't want to help the scum out lol...
  2. If Vecna is lying and is the Warlock - scum know he is lying in this case and, to prevent town from giving the game to Vecna, they must out one of themselves by calling Vecna's shit out.
• Based off above, I believe the best strategy scum can employ right now is to try to push the narrative that Vecna is the Warlock, regardless of being factual or not. The Warlock is the big bad boogie-man of win-now mode and the remaining 2 scum need to invalidate Vecna's offer as much as possible to damage control. It's in their best interest to promote this attack. For this reason, and the posting being done so far, I believe the last scum pair is brain and bozo.

And for the sake of addressing the attacks at me:

• Scum!worcej would never in my lifetime have made the amount of posts to confirm the information with GM calls to piece this shit together. I would've done the same exact shit as BB and bozo - push the warlock narrative exclusively to invalidate the offer from Vecna.
• In a vacuum, the offer does force a 50/50-ish situation for town to win, but I feel those odds are better because of the amount of people mistakenly scumming me. I am actively addressing the issues you guys have with my gameplay right now, but consistently I am being flagged as scummy for my reasoning (recently food's comments) and then meta attacks. There are very few actual "you did this this game, thus scummy" lines outside of BB's manipulation/conspiracy thoughts. I am at a loss for why you'd think scum!worcej would do any of this analysis or entertain Vecna's offer if you really think this through. The only thing I can come up with is you think I'm trying to do a crazy game changing ploy, but if you've been scum with me, you know I like to be a puppeteer and manipulate things subtley, not with some fucking nutty play like this.

Alright - wall post done. Hopefully you read it and get where my head is at.

Quoting to bring this back for emphasis, as I think BB is trying to drown it currently.

[brainbomb]

Can you sincerely tell me that vecna played better than mafia up to this point? What would his claim to greatness be? Not getting nightkilled?

[worcej]

Solve the game yourself without any of that. Would you have? Would you honestly say youve played well enough that you would be a winner this game? That someone handed you something and you deserved it? Winning the game to
Me is secondary to actually playing it and playing it well. This is a game of winning others over, relationship building and collective cooperation. Its a team game not a gimme gimme fest. Hand me a win.

Hand yourself a win. Can you honestly say you deserve one?

I think we could have an interesting philosophical discussion about how I am arguably the most team-focused players on this site over individual wins/accomplishments.

[brainbomb]

You arent basing your favortisms on performance in this game, you already said you are outside influenced toward third parties due to a past experience and would always side with a 3p to throw a game

[brainbomb]

Solve the game yourself without any of that. Would you have? Would you honestly say youve played well enough that you would be a winner this game? That someone handed you something and you deserved it? Winning the game to
Me is secondary to actually playing it and playing it well. This is a game of winning others over, relationship building and collective cooperation. Its a team game not a gimme gimme fest. Hand me a win.

Hand yourself a win. Can you honestly say you deserve one?

I think we could have an interesting philosophical discussion about how I am arguably the most team-focused players on this site over individual wins/accomplishments.

Then vote for a tied outcome. You know you wouldnt have arrived at these solves or conclusions.

You sympathize with vecna

And you have to admit scum killed almost every town pr and avoided pressure in clever ways right?

How is it fair to pick a side at this point

[worcej]

You arent basing your favortisms on performance in this game, you already said you are outside influenced toward third parties due to a past experience and would always side with a 3p to throw a game

Yeah, in a vacuum that is true.

I think plenty of people have experiences that influence their gameplay. What's your point here?

[brainbomb]

Then vote for a tied outcome

I submitted one to vecna the moment he claimed

[brainbomb]

Then vote for a tied outcome

I submitted one to vecna the moment he claimed

To jamie

[brainbomb]

If your only motivation is winning or letting 3p win a tie is a favorable outcome that honors all sides

[worcej]

Solve the game yourself without any of that. Would you have? Would you honestly say youve played well enough that you would be a winner this game? That someone handed you something and you deserved it? Winning the game to
Me is secondary to actually playing it and playing it well. This is a game of winning others over, relationship building and collective cooperation. Its a team game not a gimme gimme fest. Hand me a win.

Hand yourself a win. Can you honestly say you deserve one?

I think we could have an interesting philosophical discussion about how I am arguably the most team-focused players on this site over individual wins/accomplishments.

Then vote for a tied outcome. You know you wouldnt have arrived at these solves or conclusions.

You sympathize with vecna

And you have to admit scum killed almost every town pr and avoided pressure in clever ways right?

How is it fair to pick a side at this point

You already got your one tie this game that was detrimental to the town. Take that screw up and be pleased with it (like you already were).

Honestly, I'd reply to these individually, but you're just coming off as a butt-hurt scum player pissed that the game has slipped out of your hands when you thought you had it all figured out.

[brainbomb]

No i dont mean a tie vote in the way you mean

I mean vote that the game ends as a tie

[ND]

Solve the game yourself without any of that. Would you have? Would you honestly say youve played well enough that you would be a winner this game? That someone handed you something and you deserved it? Winning the game to
Me is secondary to actually playing it and playing it well. This is a game of winning others over, relationship building and collective cooperation. Its a team game not a gimme gimme fest. Hand me a win.

Hand yourself a win. Can you honestly say you deserve one?

QUACK

I would hardly call reading meta analysis and looking at spreadsheets from games that happened ten years ago 'good play' it's beyond poor play imo.

[brainbomb]

I would argue that if the game was going to come down to a popularity contest that isnt mafia, and the only outcome is town wins or 3p wins then there should be an option we all agree to a draw

Mafia played amazingly and shouldnt be punished because you just like third
Party roles. That isnt even related to anything thats happened in this game.

[ND]

I have the world's tiniest violin for you Brainbomb.

I am playing you a sad song. Better luck next time, so-called 'community' historian!

[ND]

This is just pathetic.

[worcej]

I would argue that if the game was going to come down to a popularity contest that isnt mafia, and the only outcome is town wins or 3p wins then there should be an option we all agree to a draw

Mafia played amazingly and shouldnt be punished because you just like third
Party roles. That isnt even related to anything thats happened in this game.

I don't see this game boiling down like you do.

I am sorry you spent so much time focusing on town players and not hunting the 3p, like you should have been.

[brainbomb]

Okay, well I do think voting that the game ends in a draw seems fair.

I dont want vecna to lose, and his role if its really what he says it is had almost no chance to win.